Ya know what I hate, when Christian bands sign to mainstream labels and the labels mess up their website's band bios and such. Take for instance, when Switchfoot first signed to Columbia, Columbia put the phrase "kick bottom" in it. That was then removed when according to John Foreman "It came to our attention that they put that on there" and the when Pillar signed with Geffen, they pretty much removed anything God related from their band bio. Now Lava has done the same to Skillet's. They pretty much quote John Cooper from an interview that took place a few months ago and cut out any God references he made. Luckily though, they kept the individual bios that talked about each member's acceptance of Christ. It just frustrates me cause it's like each label tries to water down the God aspect of each band and that sucks.

^ Yeah, but I hope that Skillet keeps the gospel in their lives so pure that no matter what the record companies do, they'll never erase that aspect of their sound.

^ Yeah, but I hope that Skillet keeps the gospel in their lives so pure that no matter what the record companies do, they'll never erase that aspect of their sound.

Amen my friend, that's what matters the most.

(i moved this thread here to keep the frying pan on topics strictly relating to Skillet. & even tho they are talked about (& can continue to be talked about) this topic seemed to be more of a rant against secular labels.)

Ya know what I hate, when Christian bands sign to mainstream labels and the labels mess up their website's band bios and such. *snip*

Welcome to the world of secular mainstream. They signed Skillet for one reason, to make money. And 90% of the secular crowd won't buy something that is loaded with God this and God that. The band can do what they want on stage, but Lava can do what they want everywhere else.

CJ

i got to go to the lava showcase/nyc show a few weeks ago... the majority of the crowd were lava people, and this was probably the first time they had seen skillet live, and while skillet didn't have a whole set at thier disposal, so john really couldn't smack them down with the gospel as he usually does in a show, the gospel smackdown usually takes a good half hour, and they only had about 50 minutes to play... they didn't however tone down thier songs at all and even did 'angels fall down' (which probably garnered the largest applause because that song would rock an athiests face off).

all that to say that i don't think that skillet being on lava will in any way shape or form change thier concerts or thier message... i think that its great because they're exposed to a whole new group of people, and some people who are turned off by all things Godly will hear thier music...

hope that makes sense! :)

i know what you mean but like CJ said, secular labels are only in it for the money, nothing else

why do the secular labels have control over their website to begin with!?

Luckily though, they kept the individual bios that talked about each member's acceptance of Christ

I was just on their site there. Unless I'm looking in the wrong place their personal bios are GONE! Totally GONE!

man you're right...sucky!!

I can't get the lava site to even load right now. from what I saw it was kinda cheesy. My mind might change on that should actually get the thing to load up...

no..im talking about the real skillet site...skillet.org

well now there's the exact kind of thing I was worried about happening. The new bio has absolutely no mention of thier love of God just love of the music. Tho the old bio may have needed things like thier ages updated it was a good bio. I think it's sad that they changed it. Not only that but it's not a bio of the band it's a bio for Collide.

Will there ever be a day that the label will let a mainstreamed band keep the christian band title?

well now there's the exact kind of thing I was worried about happening. The new bio has absolutely no mention of thier love of God just love of the music.

Yeah, that's hitting a nerve with me as well, Rachel. It's a small-scaled compromise but it's still compromise nonetheless.

If going mainstream is affecting the little stuff like website content, I wonder how it's going to effect John's preaching onstage.

Worried.

*is worried with Chrishna*

*is worried with the rest of the people that are worried*

*isn't really worried cuz trying to shut up john would just make him yell louder*

Trying to relax though vaguely worried...

We will see in time won't we?

.....also concerned....but really really praying!!

I seriously doubt that John is gonna tone his faith down... If he does we can all go to his house and bug him though... The record label will of course try to smuther it but it wont happen...

Yeah, that's hitting a nerve with me as well, Rachel. It's a small-scaled compromise but it's still compromise nonetheless.

If going mainstream is affecting the little stuff like website content, I wonder how it's going to effect John's preaching onstage.

Worried.

yeah, it is troubling.

i will continue to keep praying for them. CJ made some good points.

Lord, let Your will be done. Skillet is in Your hands.

to be honest as far as Switchfoot goes I had never seen thier website before they did the mainstream deal so I had nothing to compare it to. As for Skillet we gotta pray.

Lord, let Your will be done. Skillet is in Your hands.
yep tracy... amen

The way I see it, the devil's trying to mess up Skillet's style by Lava changing the bios. It really did make me mad when i read the Lava bio, and there wasn't a thing about God. But, I believe in John. I'm gonna judge a lot of this on the new song for Collide when Lava releases it.

Have faith.

Everyone is freaking out when this is something that was inevitable from the start. Welcome to the world of secular music. I would be amazed if John and co. even knew that their bios were taken from the site to begin with. But it is a small sacrifice to make when you consider how many ears will be reaching them. Keep in mind they will still be doing Xian festivals and I'm sure John will keep preaching on stage when they do their own headlining shows. But anytime they are in a lineup, I somehow doubt they will because they are on time limits; 45-60 miuntes per set usually when other bands are with. But think of it another way as well. They have done so many miracles in a lot of people's lives. Maybe it's time they started reaching some of the other bands for the moment instead of mass crowds. They will all find out eventually about Skillet's faith anyway if they like the band that much. Better that the crowds like the music first so that when they do find out about their faith, 95% won't be like "GAH! Xian music!" and toss the cd. The crowds they are playing for now probably wouldn't have touched their cds with a 10ft poll before. Just keep that in mind and trust God is pushing them in the right direction.

There will be changes, but have no fear.

CJ

Well let me clarify that I wasn't freaking out or in fear of anything.

It just peeves me to no end that a record label thinks they have a right to 'dumb down' a band's public image/message because they think it's not a money maker.

Secular industry or christian industry -- makes no matter. It's ridiculous.

Well let me clarify that I wasn't freaking out or in fear of anything.

It just peeves me to no end that a record label thinks they have a right to 'dumb down' a band's public image/message because they think it's not a money maker.

Secular industry or christian industry -- makes no matter. It's ridiculous.

I agree...Didnt those media talkingheads say that that a certain movie by Mel Gibson would tank???...but whos laughing all the way to the bank now.You would think they would start to realilize that just because something or someone has a connection with God doesnt have to be a death sentence to marketing.

I would think it would be a excellent marketing tool....after all every label has its share of vulgar trash talking bands....its the norm now....maybe if they play up the "Hey we have something different here" angle...who knows what would happen.

Heres another view....every generation seems to like to be a rebel....back in the late 60s and early 70s the "rebels" were the ones who did drugs,had free sex,used vulgar language,etc.At that time that kind of behaviour was not accepted by society.
Now fast forward 40 years...and all that behaviour is now pretty well accepted...now the "rebels" are the ones who dont do those things.

I know that i am just a dumb country boy but it seems to me if someone had the guts to really market a band like Skillet... God and all...there could be money to be made.

And CJ....that was a great post you had....I know that you have been saying that all along but you really put things into perspective in that one!!

J3

Another thing all, God is totaly in control with this. He knows Skillet my go through some bad in there music days, but He will move them allong so they can preach it. And if it gets bad enough, who knows, exept God. And this, if people think Skillet is secular at one of there shows, don't you think its a great opertuity for them to be saved? And if not, everyone of the non Christians there will have a seed, and it will grow.

Another thing all, God is totaly in control with this. He knows Skillet my go through some bad in there music days, but He will move them allong so they can preach it. And if it gets bad enough, who knows, exept God. And this, if people think Skillet is secular at one of there shows, don't you think its a great opertuity for them to be saved? And if not, everyone of the non Christians there will have a seed, and it will grow.

That's what sucks, is that the label will tone down the band. They do that with bios, interviews and such, but Lava may have their work cut out for them to try and tone down Skillet. Just keep praying for them like John asked.

i agree chrish.

cj - good points. i agree with what you're saying and something for all of us to remember.

I would say I'm more disappointed than "freaking out". We know there will be some change, but they were sure extreemly quick about it. The other thing that bothered me was that it said they have been playing the club and college curcuit. Well maybe since 3/5 the beginning of SSR a whopping couple of weeks. Then you look at the tour page and it's mostly church's and festivals. The cool thing is they can't change all the dates at the church's and christian festivals. And alot of the links that are clearly christian.

Man, what a drag. You can't win, can you?
You sign to a Christian label, and they exploit God and judge you by your lyrics only.
You sign to a secular label, and they try to hide any contravercial viewpoints or lifestyles the band might have and then judge you by how much money can be milked out of your band's name and the style you choose to play.

I'd rather be on the secular label, honestly, but it still sucks nonetheless. But I doubt Skillet themselves will ever stop praising God, no matter what label they are on or market their music is sold in.

Thats Christian life, being persecuted for what you believe in, God.

Look, I'm just dropping it. Right now, I'm not in the easiest mood, I'm nervous, tired, mad at my bvrother, and, what I was trying to say didn't come out the way I meant it to. So, I deleted the posts that started this whole stupid thing.

The cool thing is they can't change all the dates at the church's and christian festivals. And alot of the links that are clearly christian.

Wait till LAva signs them on a festival like OzFest. Then people will really be fuming. ;) It's not a matter of "if" it's a matter of "when". Then again, if Skillet gets really big, they might get to headline arena shows which would be uberkewl. But that would take a mega breaking point due to the bands backround in the Xian Music circut.

CJ

in regards to the "Christian" vs "Xian" discussion (though most of the posts have since been removed by their authors):

the greek letter "X" (chi) is often used to represent Christ. Take a look in the booklet for Skillet's worship album -- you'll notice it was recorded at the "Chi Music Room". Instead of going into it in depth, I'll just point you to some sites...

http://www.pilgrimbethesda.org/our_cong/Christmas/x_marks.htm
http://www.wordwizard.com/clubhouse/founddiscuss.asp?Num=2499 (interesting discussion of the topic)
http://4th.com/milica/2000-01.html (very bottom of the page)
http://www.bartleby.com/61/80/X0008000.html

so now that that is done, back on topic we go...

the greek letter "X" (chi) is often used to represent Christ. Take a look in the booklet for Skillet's worship album -- you'll notice it was recorded at the "Chi Music Room". Instead of going into it in depth, I'll just point you to some sites...

*blinks* I must have completely missed something there... but none the less, good points. :)

CJ

*blinks* I must have completely missed something there... but none the less, good points. :)

CJ

yes, you probably did. refer to the parenthetical portion of my first sentence...

(though most of the posts have since been removed by their authors)

Yeah.. I.. started a little of a tiff cause someone didn't like that you say Xian instead of typing Christian out. Thought it was disgraceful to take the Christ out or something...

and once again...

so now that that is done, back on topic we go...

The other thing that bothered me was that it said they have been playing the club and college curcuit. Well maybe since 3/5 the beginning of SSR a whopping couple of weeks. Then you look at the tour page and it's mostly church's and festivals.

Actually, it is true that they've been doing it for a while. Back in 2001 they mentioned in 7ball magazine that they were doing a club ministry where they would play at bars and stuff. They just weren't advertised as 'concerts' to the rest of us.

Anyway, that doesn't really bother me much. The website bothers me. The image the label is putting out there bothers me. But aside from all that, they're still working with Ardent for the distribution of Collide in the christian market and that keeps a little bit of a balance to things. There's an accountability factor there and they're connected with the christian fans' feedback that way. A good thing, in my opnion. As far as the label putting Skillet against a raunchy lineup like Ozzfest, no big deal. They really need to be there [however I do not]. Skillet could be a beacon in those dark places. And you know what? They'd be just as affective in that atmosphere saying nothing as they are in the churches preaching. They really are aliens in comparison. God shines through them and He will be glorified through them no matter where they go. Undoubtedly.

Couldn't have said it better. I will prob go to OzFest. I will probably be the only one cheering for the new guys on the tour. LOL! :azn:

CJ

Well you know, John said he'd like to open for Manson...

Skillet could be a beacon in those dark places. And you know what? They'd be just as affective in that atmosphere saying nothing as they are in the churches preaching. They really are aliens in comparison. God shines through them and He will be glorified through them no matter where they go. Undoubtedly.

exactly. He will.

Hey people,
I am still in mourning about the label change. While Skillet will always keep the faith i'm sure, they will be limited when it comes to spreading the word of God. I don't see John preaching while opening up for a major band. The new fans that they will attract will most likely not know the band's Christian roots. I'm sure that Lava will not advertise it. Its just another stage for them and its well deserved. They have worked hard. I am starting to accept it. theelectric I totally agree, they will be a beacon in those dark places. Maybe more like a ray of hope in the snakepit. (Can you tell I dislike the music "biz") Just pray hard for the band..they are talented, faithful, good people.
Laterz

Did we all not get John's email yesterday or something?

Why are we still whining?

Hey people,
I am still in mourning about the label change. While Skillet will always keep the faith i'm sure, they will be limited when it comes to spreading the word of God. I don't see John preaching while opening up for a major band. The new fans that they will attract will most likely not know the band's Christian roots. I'm sure that Lava will not advertise it. Its just another stage for them and its well deserved. They have worked hard. I am starting to accept it. theelectric I totally agree, they will be a beacon in those dark places. Maybe more like a ray of hope in the snakepit. (Can you tell I dislike the music "biz") Just pray hard for the band..they are talented, faithful, good people.
Laterz

First, it's not a label "change". It's a label "addition". They will still be going strong with Ardent Records, still playing at churches, Christian festivals, and Christian events.

Unlike many in mainstream music today who have Christian members, Skillet is and will remain a "Christian band" not just "Christians in a band" (semantics, I know, but people get very angry over this). They have never been interested in NOT being a Christian band.

Granted, Skillet won't have the same kind of opportunities for ministry-only activities (such as preaching while opening for a mainstream band), but they will have different opportunities that most likely will be more rewarding in the long run. As John said in the recent bulk mail, "I think that it is so cool that a song with lyrics like "Savior" would be played on mainstream radio. There are many people without hope out there. Part of our mission is to present that hope to them through our lives and our music."

Summary: Calm down. This is a good thing.

^This is most definitly a good thing :)

I'm so happy for them and so glad that they will be going out into the world like Jesus disciples who went out and spoke the Word to those who did not know of God, etc...
Skillet has a mission...and they are taking this big step and jumping into the lions den hoping to calm all the lions and make them happy :) (please dont take that literaly) but you know what I mean :P
That's just my opinion...
I'm so glad they are doing this...I'm sooo happy for them...I'm jumping for joy! :D hehehe...
We, as the fans who listen to them, just need to keep them in our prayers so that everything may go God's way and not man's way...Ya know? Skillet is awesome, their music is so powerful and just straight out SWEET!!! :D
Rock ON!!!

Thanks for reading ;) ...

P.S...this is just what I think :) thanks

I just had an idea. Lava Records may be able to mess with skillet.org but they cant touch panheads.org can they?

All the bits they pull off Skillet.org could be put up here instead?

Skillet.org and the Collide cd have links to this site so ppl are bound to come here.

This is a fan run site and as such, we also have the freedom of speech. They can't legally do anything to take down information that is posted here, only things like copyrighted images but since the site is backed by the band and [I dont think] Lava has any legal ownership to those. It's pretty much secure that this place will stay the same.

CJ

First, it's not a label "change". It's a label "addition". They will still be going strong with Ardent Records, still playing at churches, Christian festivals, and Christian events.

Unlike many in mainstream music today who have Christian members, Skillet is and will remain a "Christian band" not just "Christians in a band" (semantics, I know, but people get very angry over this). They have never been interested in NOT being a Christian band.

Granted, Skillet won't have the same kind of opportunities for ministry-only activities (such as preaching while opening for a mainstream band), but they will have different opportunities that most likely will be more rewarding in the long run. As John said in the recent bulk mail, "I think that it is so cool that a song with lyrics like "Savior" would be played on mainstream radio. There are many people without hope out there. Part of our mission is to present that hope to them through our lives and our music."

Summary: Calm down. This is a good thing.

Lol..I am calm...but if you think that things will be the same...I beg to differ. It is a great thing that the band is growing..many good things will come to head for the band..but..the point I was trying to make was that new fans will not fully know their message. Example, I had no idea P.O.D. was a Christian band. ]"I think that it is so cool that a song with lyrics like "Savior" would be played on mainstream radio. There are many people without hope out there. Part of our mission is to present that hope to them through our lives and our music." Ok here is the point..spreading hope is great...but its not the word of our Lord. They are being set up by the new record company to hide the message just enough to fit in. Please don't take any of this the wrong way. I love the band, they inspire me and I wish them the upmost succes in whatever they do!
Peace

Remember the chat this evening (7:30 CST) in the cage here at panheads.org where John will be discussing this issue. Here are the details: http://www.panheads.org/chat/john

it is very upsetting....i wish that they hadnt gotten rid of that stuff...i was so awesome

I think this is moot subject. I read the chat transcripts from the other day and John said that they chose to remove the stuff from their bio's. As far as I know, Skillet has complete control over their website. Correct me if I am wrong. I am hardly ever wrong though. ;)

I think this is mute subject.Don't you mean moot? ;)

Correct me if I am wrong. I am hardly ever wrong though. ;)Grammatical errors aside, I'm sure you're not. ;)

Don't you mean moot? ;)

Grammatical errors aside, I'm sure you're not. ;)

:afro:

How about I just throw up that nifty afro dude?

:afro:

How about I just throw up that nifty afro dude?
'cause you know, that fixes everything. ;)

I am hardly ever wrong though. ;)

One of the characteristics of the male gene is that you are hardly ever wrong....I though everyone knew that 8)

I agree ^^^

:P

CJ

I posted this in the other forum, but I think it applies to this discussion as well (or at least some comments that have been made):



I went to the Copeland/Switchfoot show last night. I was extremely impressed by Switchfoot, and I've pretty much fallen in love with their music. They are far and away one of the most talented bands I have ever heard, and their music is finally starting to get the recognition that they deserved.

They played in front of around 3,000 people, and although I'm sure there was quite a lot of the church-going crowd that has followed Switchfoot since their beginnings with the Christian music scene many years ago, a large portion of the crowd was made up by people who would probably never set foot in a church in their life.
Did they hear the Gospel message? No. Would anyone be saved as a result of going to the concert? Probably not. But, did they see an example of a band that has a joy and peace that they know they don't have? Certainly. Did they see a band who doesn't claim to have all the answers, but obviously knows Someone who does? Certainly. Did they hear music that is going to show them that there is more to life than just the here and now, that we are more than just temporary beings with no purpose? Yes, yes they did.

There are some bands that do not have the intention of presenting the Gospel message through their lyrics. Instead, they choose to focus on attempting to get people to start asking questions, to focus on spiritual things, to start them thinking that there is more to life than what they can see and touch, and to get them starting on a spiritual journey that will hopefully lead them to Christ. They don't give people all the answers, because people will not accept the answers if they are not asking the question! Some bands such as Switchfoot and POD (both of whom I have seen play in secular venues and have walked away from the concerts with massive amounts of new-found respect for) are trying to make people start asking questions that will begin a spiritual journey for them. If they just got up on stage and started singing the Gospel messsage, they would not reach people. Why? Because people would avoid them like the plague, because they aren't ready to recieve (or even think about) the answers that are being given them.

Bands like Switchfoot and POD are incredibly talented, and are finally getting the respect and following that they deserve. Through their music, they are having an impact on the youth of our culture, and are showing people that they have something that most of the world does not...

i haven't posted on this thread yet because i couldn't find the words to go with what i thought.. now i don't have to because therasher just posted my opinion. good job. 8)

I just had an idea. Lava Records may be able to mess with skillet.org but they cant touch panheads.org can they?

All the bits they pull off Skillet.org could be put up here instead?

Skillet.org and the Collide cd have links to this site so ppl are bound to come here.

hmm.. didn't see this post at the time it was first made but figured i'd go ahead and respond to it now... better late than never, right?

Skillet.org was purchased by the band way back in the day and they maintain complete ownership of it... Lava has no real control over the content posted there. The changes made on skillet.org were actually the band's decision.

I purchased Panheads.org in 2001 and for years was the sole owner. This past fall I agreed to give the domain to the band to use as the offical fansite, provided that I still had the freedom to do what I wanted to with it. The transfer of ownership has never been made "official" with any kind of legal documents or anything... it's simply a safeguard for the band in case I ever went postal and decided to turn this place into a Skillet hate site or something. Of course I would never do that and the band knows that, but they just wanted to cover all of their bases. I asked Zach a week or two ago if there was any possibility of Lava wanting to affect any of the content here on ph.org, and he assured me that they didn't.

very good info Will. Thanks, and yes better late than never...