I want to know ur opinions on this game.

I personally don't have a problem with it.
I was uncertain about it for a while so I prayed over it and spoke to my Pastor about it (he used to be in deliverance ministry so he knows this stuff)

He thot it was ok. But told me that I'm developing discernment so if I see anything I'm uncertain about to show him.

What do u think?

i haven't played in a l,ong time so in can't even remember what could be controversial about it.

Books? I 've never seen any books with it. Just the cards.

yes, there are books that go along with it. from what i've seen (i work in a used book store), they aren't that popular. the popular books come in & go out. the Magic books come in, but never go out. & from it looks like, they just take a card or two & make an entire backstory for it. *shrugs* i wouldn't really know tho. i never got into all that stuff. i just know from what i've seen.

Ah I know what u mean. YES I remember now they're novels based on the fictional characters created to add some depth to the game! I know wot u mean. I've seen them before they normally come in a box with a pile of cards with them too don't they?

my mother *ack* has raised me to believe that that game, Magic The Gathering has been and will always be evil

i wondered at that for ever, she'd never let me play DnD or any other RPG, online or offline for that matter, and i am just now coming to reason at her reasoning:

the cards.
the cards develop your mind into thinking that cards as such carry certain power and that power is not from God as God cannot be contained in matter (similar to an idol, if you catch my meaning)

if you look also at tarrot cards
tarrot cards are cards as well and people believe in them that they have the power to predict the future and such.

also
i have an issue with gaming in general.
with what free time do you game? in every moment in everyday are you not owned by God (*that is if you are a Christian) and if you spend your time wasting it unproductively by watching tv or playing video (or card) games, are you not cheapening God and the price he paid for you.

think of if as it you were an employee for God, and if you sat around with your free time (that you could spend depening your relationship with Him) playing games, how would He feel?

Yeah and I'm sure God was really peeved at all the Jews spending the Sabbath resting.
And every 7rs bringing their stuff to Jerusalem and having a huge party! He must really be annoyed at that... Oh wait he COMMANDED that we rest and COMMANDED that every 7rs the Jews held a party.

Spending free time on recreation isn't a sin, if u work 24/7 u'll burn out really quick.

I see ur mums point in DnD. I don't like it either.

--------------------
the cards develop your mind into thinking that cards as such carry certain power and that power is not from God as God cannot be contained in matter
---------------------
I don't see how a game does that. I'm sure there are some pretty messed up ppl in the world that wud get that but tats nto necessarily the games fault, they're just messed up.


-----------------------
if you look also at tarrot cards
tarrot cards are cards as well and people believe in them that they have the power to predict the future and such.
------------------------
Difference between this and MtG is that users of Tarot cards say that "YES these cards predict the future".
No1 says that about MtG. They say its a game and nothing more.


I have developed a type of reasoning that doesn't condemn something by its name. I look at its content.
MTG has no satanic symbols, isn't mentioning Lucifer or Baal or any name he goes by and isn't anti-Christian.
So I don't have a problem with it.

bothan: I never thought of any of the points you said, but they make sense to me. good thinking! (except I kind of agree w/ skynes about the leisure time thing).
skynes: first, chill. no offense; i don't want to be mean, but it seems like you're getting defensive, and that's not cool. so be cool. i be cool. you be cool. we all be cool.

now, about the game. i used to LOVE that game. but then I realized what it was about. the idea of the game is that you can 'summon' creatures to fight each other and cast different spells to help your creature or hurt your enemy. there's even the different colors of magic that represent some very wiccan ideas. now to you it may just be a fun game (to me it was to), but think about this: you PAY with both your time and a lot of money to play with these cards that embrace the idea of magic. the fun of the game is not just in that it's a good rpg, but it's also the fun of being able to cast spells and things like that. if you develop an attraction to those things in the game, soon you'll be more and more tolerant of them in life. who knows where it could lead?
one more thing: you said you asked your pastor and he said it was ok (not like permission, just he didn't have a problem w/ it) and he said that you're developing discernment. he may be right in both of these instances, and asking opinions and advice is fine, but you can't rely on anyone else to tell you what's ok or to tell you what God's doing in your life. GOD convicted me of this game. not me and not anyone else. just remember that (even if you never forgot).

^thanx bluflame for standing up for me a tad, and skynes, serious, you think i WANT to work 24/7!? i dont! but in my recreation, i do PRODUCTIVE things, like read or spend time with God, not waste it away playing a game with little to no eternal value.

you think i WANT to work 24/7!? i dont! but in my recreation, i do PRODUCTIVE things, like read or spend time with God, not waste it away playing a game with little to no eternal value.


ya gotta be careful to not take that line of thinking too far. if you read an Arthur C. Clarke sci-fi book when there's a C.S. Lewis you could be reading, that might be wasting time as well. :- i agree that we need to spend our time wisely, but you can take that too far. i read, but i usually have about 2 books i'm reading at once. one more in-depth or having Spiritual conotations, another just for fun. & i play video games. if anything, that could be looked at as a major waste of time. but i look at it as a huge relaxation tool for me (& boy, there are just some days i need to play Super Smash Bros. like nothing else). it's also a way for me to connect to some non-Christian friends of mine. i see it as a means to an end (i don't play games just to get them saved), but God can use my semi-interest in them to reach out those who have a fanatical interest in them.

you just have to be careful. like Solomon said, there's a time for everything. :)

Oh I didn't mean to sound defensive, this wk has just been pretty much a living hell so anything I say or do is gonna have a bit of my frustration in it Sorry if it caused ne bother.

God isn't convicting me of it. It's actually been quite useful in bringing me into contact with ppl that I prolly wudn't have spoken to otherwise.
This gives me opportunities to witness which I think is of very high eternal value.

Books I read are 90% spiritual. rarely do I read novels or otherwise. I do read LOTR I'm reading Pilgrim's Progress and I've finished two of Kel Richards' "Case of whatever" books.

^ no worries mate, i've ahd pretty much the same, as far as a rough week as well...

and i love Clive's (C.S. Lewis) stuff oh my gosh the Chronicles of Narnia are the BEST!!!

Is Magic the gathering a Wicca game or something?? or what is it excatly??

and i love Clive's (C.S. Lewis) stuff oh my gosh the Chronicles of Narnia are the BEST!!!


YES. Clive Staples rocks. :o

Is Magic the gathering a Wicca game or something?? or what is it excatly??


Not exactly. It's theoretically just a game, but the basis of it is your ability as a magician to summon creatures to fight each other and kill your opponent and also your ability to cast spells to help those creatures or hurt your enemy or their creatures. It's not based on any real religion, but the basis of the game, while not realisitc, is magic.

Oh my, here we go with the gaming thing...

The only thing I can say about this is... get over it. It's a game. It's not real, and no Satan isn't using it to get into the minds of others or turn it real. Geez.

I never played Magic: The Gathering all that much. Card games didn't and don't interest me. But I can tell you that you can in no way compare them to that of Tarrot cards. Tarrot is believed to be a real power. The power to see ones destiny or past through cards. Magic is a game.

I use to play RPG's all the time. Both video and tabletop. I see nothing evil about them. People just like to read into things way too much. They like to put blames everywhere but where they belong. It's like that whole thing with AD&D. 3 very stupid kids decided to act the game out and they killed each other. Suddenly parents across the world start flipping out calling it an evil game because 3 kids didn't have the braincells to leave it as a game. And I've heard all the stories of how the Devil made them do it and this and that trash of untrue nonsense. It makes me think of the story of Jonah and how throughout all of the story of Jonah, not once was his pain caused by the Devil. The Devil isn't even mentioned once in that book. Everything that happened was because Jonah was a whining little baby who prayed bad prayers (look it up... I'm sure you will understand what I'm talking about) so God gave him shade... God also created the bug that diseased his tree. Not the Devil...

This is longer than I would like to adress this certain subject, but eh, its a learning experience. It's like that whole Harry Potter thing. All the Christians exploded over how bad of a movie this was. How it was soooo evil. I watched the movie. I saw nothing worse in it than say the Wizard of Oz or ET. It's fiction, entertainment. And has the same basic situations as Lord of the Rings apart from a completely different and more mature plotline. There is still magic in LotR, it's just shown differently. The whole thing is that parents need to spend more time with their kids. Teach them the differences between fantasy and reality. I grew up loving fantasy magic. I love reading my Raymond E Feist novels which a lot is based on fictional magic. People need to understand that in the real world, magic isn't the same "shoot a fireball from your hand" fiction magic. The evil magic of the world is far worse and kids need to know this so they can discern for themselves when it comes time from them to make their own decisions about things.

In my concerts, our production is being setup for some illusion. David Copperfield type magic that we all loved growing up. Same basic fundamentals, kids need to know that it's entertaining, but at the same time that it's only an illusion used to make the show more captivating...

Christians really really need to have an eye opener. Sometimes I think I'm too vague. ;)

Thats my 10 bucks.

CJ

Oh my, here we go with the gaming thing...

The only thing I can say about this is... get over it. It's a game. It's not real, and no Satan isn't using it to get into the minds of others or turn it real. Geez.

I never played Magic: The Gathering all that much. Card games didn't and don't interest me. But I can tell you that you can in no way compare them to that of Tarrot cards. Tarrot is believed to be a real power. The power to see ones destiny or past through cards. Magic is a game.

I use to play RPG's all the time. Both video and tabletop. I see nothing evil about them. People just like to read into things way too much. They like to put blames everywhere but where they belong. It's like that whole thing with AD&D. 3 very stupid kids decided to act the game out and they killed each other. Suddenly parents across the world start flipping out calling it an evil game because 3 kids didn't have the braincells to leave it as a game. And I've heard all the stories of how the Devil made them do it and this and that trash of untrue nonsense. It makes me think of the story of Jonah and how throughout all of the story of Jonah, not once was his pain caused by the Devil. The Devil isn't even mentioned once in that book. Everything that happened was because Jonah was a whining little baby who prayed bad prayers (look it up... I'm sure you will understand what I'm talking about) so God gave him shade... God also created the bug that diseased his tree. Not the Devil...

This is longer than I would like to adress this certain subject, but eh, its a learning experience. It's like that whole Harry Potter thing. All the Christians exploded over how bad of a movie this was. How it was soooo evil. I watched the movie. I saw nothing worse in it than say the Wizard of Oz or ET. It's fiction, entertainment. And has the same basic situations as Lord of the Rings apart from a completely different and more mature plotline. There is still magic in LotR, it's just shown differently. The whole thing is that parents need to spend more time with their kids. Teach them the differences between fantasy and reality. I grew up loving fantasy magic. I love reading my Raymond E Feist novels which a lot is based on fictional magic. People need to understand that in the real world, magic isn't the same "shoot a fireball from your hand" fiction magic. The evil magic of the world is far worse and kids need to know this so they can discern for themselves when it comes time from them to make their own decisions about things.

In my concerts, our production is being setup for some illusion. David Copperfield type magic that we all loved growing up. Same basic fundamentals, kids need to know that it's entertaining, but at the same time that it's only an illusion used to make the show more captivating...

Christians really really need to have an eye opener. Sometimes I think I'm too vague. ;)

Thats my 10 bucks.

CJ


I agree with you to a degree T, but the simple fact is: If the d&d didn't exist, they wouldn't have played it out. And some ppl get into the game thing very deep and yes they go to a degree that they become possessed by demons. And yes there are such things. So don't think that it is that simple. It does go deeper.

Charmed, that story about 'good' witches, a lot of that stuff is very realistic. Just that they aren't really good. (There's no thing like white magic, it's all the same demons used to operate. Black magic demons are just stronger.) And the whole witchcraft thing is really a puller for ppl who do not know Christ. So they fall away completely, becoming enemies of the cross.

I don't care about the stupid games. They are not from God, and are from this world. No one can argue with that. Now we know that the world is in enemity against God and His saints, and I have nothing to spell out further. If something denies the Sonship and character of Jesus Christ, it is part of the lie, whatever it is, or however innocent might seem.

Good people go to hell, because they don't have Jesus Christ. If things are good, it doesn't mean they are from God.

Anything from the world brings death. Cause the world and it's leaders are already doomed for destructions. God alone is to be worshipped, in all things.

I don't see us watching charmed in heaven or buffy waffy (I just made that up) or playing with images of demons.

Do you see yourself playing Osama bin laden and blowing up the twin towers in a game? I thought so. So why do we play God's enemy?

But that's just my oppinion.(And it's coprighted)

i used to play magic everyday. but now its only once in a great while when an old friend wants to play. i also used to play vampire the masquerade and i play lunch money, both of those a lot of christians dont like. but i dont get what the big deal is really they're just games. if someone starts thinkin its real then they have something mentaly wrong with them :-

but really just a game doesnt hurt anyone.

<>< God Bless ><>
Ashley

Woah... a girl playing RPGs.... amazing. lol

CJ

its not amazing, a few girls i know love RPGs. i've stopped because everyone i played with just took it to far or just messed up the whole story line. like when something happens in the game that one person isnt suppose to know bout, finds out bout it when we're not playing and then they get they're lil friends to "mess" it all up before we play again >:(. blah oh well.

<>< God Bless ><>
Ashley

Which is why I moved to MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online RPGs) like Ultima Online. But sadly, as the generations became younger in the game, the maturity level depleted. Suddenly all the roleplayers were gone to find these newbies who wanted a super safe land away from thiefs, murderers, and looters. It took the fun out of the game.

CJ

i still think that whether or not its on or offline, dice (change) based or mmorpgs, i tstill think that it's the same concept with the same underlying demonic influence, and the bible says RUN from anything that is sinful, so im not even going to risk doing something like that if theres even a chance in it being something far from Gods will. because far from Gods will is a DANGEROUS place to be.

God Bless :D

That's personal conviction there, bro. Maybe God spoke that to you because you might fall easily into believing the game itself is real or that you might start to compromise your walk with Christ.

For me, these are just games. I've even met other Xians and done some witnessing through them. But God has never spoken to me about them being demonic... I do believe some people go overboard with the whole demon thing sometimes (e.g. the demon of smoking, the demon of computers) but that is a whole other story for another day...

CJ

One thing we all have to remember is that if we feel a conviction about something and still do it, thats it a sin. I feel a conviction, so therefore I won't do it. :o

I agree with everything that bin said since my last post.
There are people that DO take it too far, those ppl need help. However it isn't the games fault.


---
They are not from God, and are from this world. No one can argue with that. Now we know that the world is in enemity against God and His saints, and I have nothing to spell out further.
---

I see a problem with this.
The food we eat is from the world, the clothes we wear are from the world the computers we're typing on now are from the world. The only way we can stay away from the things of the world is to go out of the world... Which is impossible.

I think when the bible talks of staying away from worldly things its not talking about games or music but sinful actions and sinful desires etc.

i think that too many people look at the 'worldly vs. godly' question like...well, like the playstation slogan: as if God says, "Live in your world. Pray in mine." But that's not what God wants. We're supposed to live in His world, constantly living the way the Spirit within us would have us to live. So yes, anything worldly does take away from our living for God. But you've got a point that the clothes we wear are worldly (and all the other examples), but so is the air we breathe and the ground we walk on. Worldly doesn't just mean that it came from this world. It means it takes us away from living in God's world. I believe Magic does that (the game, not magic in general). Regardless of whether or not you think it's sinful, it still puts in your mind the enjoyment of doing magical things. you can disagree all you want, but being a former magic fanatic, i can say that the appeal of the game is pretending that you can cast spell and summon creatures and the like. enjoying that is takng you away from God. I'm not saying it's sin. it may ormay not be for you, but it still takes time away from God or other more wholesome and godly forms of entertainment.

to me the fun isn't being able to cast spells and summon creatures but spending time to create a deck build a theme, a strategy then seeing it in action. I see it sorta along the lines of pokemon and stuff. Getting a team together no two teams being alike all with different moves then seeing how you can use em.


Question. What is a godly form of entertainment?

Noticed how I haven't got a reply to that question. Does that mean no1 knows?

no. sorry. it meant i didn't notice the question 'cause I haven't been here for a month.

maybe Godly isn't quite the right word. i guess 'not ungodly' would be better. wholesome. anyway, the point isn't that what you're doing has to specifically glorify God, but, since we're supposed to glorify Him at all times, that it doesn't stop you from glorifying Him. Some examples: playing video games that are not questionable in nature (ie not pornographic, graphically violent, or containing any sort of demonic influence or presence). or watch a movie with the same qualifications. maybe go outside and...i don't know...do whatever you like to do. the point is still that i believe a Christian playing magic the gathering is not pleasing God, but pleasing satan, because as long as you think it's just a game, he (satan) can keep pumping that crap about witchcraft into your head. it may not cause you to go convert to wicca, but thoughts of witchcraft are still in your head.

As a Christian, do you think it's ok to listen to music that talks about raping and murdering people just because 'it's just music?' Isn't that the same thing everyone of this world says, including the ones who do go out and rape and murder people? There's probably another board on this, but that's not the point. I'm just making a comparison. If you agree that it's not ok to listen to that because it's putting garbage in your mind, how can you justify playing games based on occult practices?

I am sorry if I seem to get angry. I'm not angry. But it really breaks my heart because I really believe this game comes to no good.

Thing is If I took that view I would be forced to lock myself into a box and never go outside nor speak to anyone nor listen to anything nor do nothing the rest of my life...

-----
(satan) can keep pumping that crap about witchcraft into your head.
-----

What crap about witchcraft? I HAVE looked into this game. I personally see no connection between this game and actual occultic witchcraft.
Furthermore no thoughts of witchcraft are in my head. I have zero interest in witchcraft and controlling ppl. I like the game for the strategy. To me its a more complex game of chess.

------
As a Christian, do you think it's ok to listen to music that talks about raping and murdering people just because 'it's just music?'
-----

Thats the reason I don't listen to alot of secular music anymore. Difference is that those types of music are deliberately putting across that these things are fine and ppl shud do them. BLink 182 and Papa Roach have songs promoting suicide.

Magic says nothing like that. It says This is a game. It is not based on earth but on different planets <-- that bit I worked out for myself cus on one cards description it mentions the world its from having four suns, obviously isn't earth.

-----
how can you justify playing games based on occult practices?
-----
What occult practices? there is no satanic symbols or satan worship or demon worship or nething like that. If it had anything like that I would never have started playing it.

-------
I really believe this game comes to no good.
-------

If that's your personal conviction don't play it. This game has brought me into contact with alot of unbelievers that I would never have come into contact with otherwise. When it comes to witnessing that's a good thing.



Final thing. Considering the content on TV, cartoons, films, books etc. I would never get to do anything, NOT EVEN READ THE BIBLE. Lot of violence in there. David even wrote a Psalm about smashing Babylonian baby heads off rocks! Can't read that, far too violent a book, must be ungodly.

I didn't mean to sound nasty or defensive or nething but I do feel quite attacked by ur last post.