So what do you guys think, is it wrong to listen to secular music? Should you just stick to Christian music? Or rather just set boundaries on what you listen to? Post your opinions, and remember that everyone is intitled to theirs. ;)

I listen to secluar music. but if it gets my mind off of God then I stop and change the r. station or whatever. I take the "christian view" on things (like secluar music)

I think that listening/not listening to 'secular' music is all about your own personal convictions. I know that for some people, if they listen to non-Christian music, it can bring them down really easily. Music from a certain period of their life can bring back feelings, emotions, memories, et cetera.. that aren't 'good' for them. Personally, secular music doesn't bother me. I've never felt like it's bad for me to listen to. Just because of that though, doesn't mean that I open myself up to things like Marilyn Manson or Dimmu Borgir, or even rap.

Anyway, I think that a person can know if something they're listening to is bringing them down or being a hinderance. It's then that they need to make the decision in their life whether or not to expose themselves to that.

I personally I dont listen to secular....not that its all bad...but i prefer to listen to songs that either praise God or encourages me to get a closer walk with him.
There are some Christian bands that i dont listen to(or listen to much) because their music just doesnt "connect" with me.
Imo...it is best to allow the Holy Spirit to lead you as to want you should or should not listen to.

J3

For me, I listen to either, but only if it has redeeming value artistically, and if it's not anti-Christian like Manson, Crass, etc. are. That also counts out almost all secular rap and pop, and a lot of (but not all) secular metal. It all depends on if the music's good.

i don't listen to a lot of mainstream, because music is so easy to get in you. before you know it, u start singing songs that you only heard 2 or 3 times. also, i try not to listen to any music that seems to have bad attitudes in it.

I cant sit here and say that there is a right or wrong answer, I just cant. But I do want to remind you that Lucifer (AKA- The DeviL) was the director of music before he went against God and was kicked out of heaven. He directed the music in the heavens, sooooo im pretty sure he knows a thing or 2 about music and how to use it to his advantage. Be careful what you listen to, Satan knows how to work through music. He knows how to trigger emotions in you when you listen to some things and how to push buttons. Music is a very huge part of are culture. Try turning on your TV and flipping through channels, you will find background music playing on almost every channel. Music is at the center of daily life.......now since it is such a huge aspect of our daily life, dont ya think satan is going to work through what we have grown up with and grown to enjoy? I say all that just to say this, Im not anti-secular music, but I do watch very carefully what I listen to. I just ask you to be careful and think about what the artist is saying and what his or her motives are behind the song. If they are contrary to your morals then dont sit there and sing along to lyrics that do not become you. Thank you and good night ;D

** Purg **

I cant sit here and say that there is a right or wrong answer, I just cant. But I do want to remind you that Lucifer (AKA- The DeviL) was the director of music before he went against God and was kicked out of heaven. He directed the music in the heavens, sooooo im pretty sure he knows a thing or 2 about music and how to use it to his advantage.



But God's the one who made him director of music. So God has an advantage too. :)

I cant sit here and say that there is a right or wrong answer, I just cant. But I do want to remind you that Lucifer (AKA- The DeviL) was the director of music before he went against God and was kicked out of heaven. He directed the music in the heavens, sooooo im pretty sure he knows a thing or 2 about music and how to use it to his advantage.



But God's the one who made him director of music. So God has an advantage too. :)

Correct Kat. But nevertheless, Satan has a key advantage over music as well. And hopefully everybody would know that God has the advantage over everything ;)

Satan may have an advantage, but that doesn't automatically mean he wins. Like when you're playing a game, and it looks like you have the advantage, but then the other team or person come out and suprises you. :)
God's cool like that. ;) He knows when to stay back, and when to step forward. Read This Present Darkness by Frank E. Peretti. :)

You got it Kat, rock on! I will have to check out that book, sounds cewl.

** Purg **

It has a sequel. Piercing the Darkness. Not as good as the first, but still pretty good. :)

What is it about if you dont mind me asking?

** Purg **

What is it about if you dont mind me asking?

What?.... About what? The sequel? Or....huh?

Haha, the first one Kat :)

** Purg **

It's a different plot, but it's not as good as the first. It has some cool parts. And, it's brings back some of the characters from the first. It has its own little moments, but I prefer the first.

Haha, the first one Kat :)

** Purg **


the plost of the books is spiritual warfare. it's the demons vs. the angels. :) but, back on topic...

personally, i listen to some secular music. not much. i only listen to the radio (& if you listen to the right station, they don't play the stuff i wouldn't want in my brain). but even so, the occasional song comes up that is not cool. :( but then i just change the station. even if i go to the lame Christian station (why are there no good Christian rock stations???), at least i'm getting something in my brain that's healthy. :) it's like eating cauliflower. it may not taste that great, but at least it's healthy.

(why are there no good Christian rock stations???)

I have no idea. Why does the only *real* radio station that's actually *Christian* have to play stuff from 'pop-pish' groups....? Grr....

I'm not against secular music Per se. I do listen to some. Linkin Park, SOAD, Metallica. But I WONT listen to more secular music than I do Christian because then it starts to affect me.
Its worse if I listen to Slipknot, Mudvayne etc. then I start getting depressed for no reason. So no Slipknot for me :P Love Demon Hunter Instead

I have a diffrent view on music.

There are 3 types of music:
1. Devil inspired
2. Man inspired
3. God inspired

A lot of Christian bands sing about God/ relationship with him, but it is man inspired, not of God.
Most Christians think this to be OK. But it is of no profit for the spirit.

Then there is God inspired, breathed by the Spirit, not because the words sound right, but because it streams from the very heart and mind of Christ. It conforms to the character of Christ and does not come from / is contaminated by the soul of man, it flows from spirit, to spirit.

All is meaningless, unless it is Spirit.

Only God can reveal the truth behind music. Cutting to the depths of / motivation and reason for listening and creating the music. We must rely on him to reveal.

Got no complaints with that.

I dont think nobody can give a exact answer that is 100% correct here. But there is one question that will give you a 100% right answer. I know this saying has turned more into a trend then actual thinking ground, but what would Jesus do? Or rather in this case, listen to?

** Purg **

Beats me. He could listen to Christian that worships God.

Then again as he spent his time with the social outcasts and used metaphors and parables that related to the people he might listen to secular to give him a common ground to the people.

Mweh

Personally i think it is ur personal conviction from God....
But then again in the bible says fill ur mind and all with love joy peace and all that stuff fruit of the spirits.. and about how ur body is the temple.. but i personally think its a conviction from God. Some music can effect a person bad then another person. so it depends on urself...

It seems that some people are generalizing both sides of this (Secular = Bad, Christian = Good). but that is not true, some secular music is good (with a christian/christian-like theme) and some "Christian" is bad (having bad doctrine/a wrong message). I am not saying that all secular is good, but some songs/groups are good. I am also not saying that all Christian music is bad, but some songs/groups are bad.

So don't judge songs by the lable man puts on them, judge the music by how the spirit moves you when you hear the music or read the lyrics.

So basically its ur own personal conviction that God gives u...

You basically just said that in your last post on this thread. :)

yeah i think i know that... but i was just saying that to see if he agreeed ok..

I agree with all that has been said. Just have to add my own 2 cents. Honestly questioning wether or not Jesus would listen to it is a good way of looking at it; unfortunately, I can't always connect with what exactly I think Jesus would do, so I remind myself that I do know what he wants ME to do. "...Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable -- if anything is excellent or prasieworhty -- think about such things." -Phillipians 4:8
Stick this verse in your head and pray for discernment.
That usually lays it out for me...good luck.

Hey, whoa...that picture was crazy big. Umm, but now it's gone. How can I make it fit?

I have a diffrent view on music.

There are 3 types of music:
1. Devil inspired
2. Man inspired
3. God inspired

A lot of Christian bands sing about God/ relationship with him, but it is man inspired, not of God.
Most Christians think this to be OK. But it is of no profit for the spirit.

Then there is God inspired, breathed by the Spirit, not because the words sound right, but because it streams from the very heart and mind of Christ. It conforms to the character of Christ and does not come from / is contaminated by the soul of man, it flows from spirit, to spirit.

All is meaningless, unless it is Spirit.

Only God can reveal the truth behind music. Cutting to the depths of / motivation and reason for listening and creating the music. We must rely on him to reveal.


Very insightful point of view.......it gave me much food for thought

Who's God inspired then?

When you pray before creating/writing a song, that doesn't mean that it is from God.

God doesn't want us to be creative. You see, cause we are not to create new things out of ourselves. WHAT??

Yip. Adam - Never created new things, only gave them names.
Moses - Didn't think things up for the tent of the ark. God gave it. He only made it 'visible'
Jesus: Only did what he saw his Father do.

Only that which is given by God profits the spirit. Other things may stir the soul, but unless a song is by the Spirit (other words: a pouring out from heaven), it wont profit the inner man. It can at best touch the soul, but it cannot reach the spirit of man. It can condition the soul, but leaves the spirit untouched.

The flesh doesn't profit the spirit. Cause the spirit stands in emnity against the flesh. They are 2 diffrent sides.

Even the Good things may lead the child of God away from the life of the Spirit in his spirit.

We should continually seek God, to know what he wants for us. Making sure that the soul life, doesn't take the precedense over the spirit.

Using that arguement u cud say that All forms of music Christian and otherwise, shud be ignored and not used and we shud only sing psalms in church and sense creativity is out that means no music. Not even Muzac(elevator music).

God doesn't want us to be creative. You see, cause we are not to create new things out of ourselves. WHAT??


you had me until you said that, Xon. God created us in His image. we have characteristics that are His as well. that doesn't mean we don't twist those characteristics, but we do have them. one of those is His desire & ability to create.

many people don't use their gifts (playing music, drawing, teaching...) for God, but when you do, He smiles. & i believe He uses what you do to touch souls. it's not the painting itself that touches your soul, but God uses the painting. & then, that touched soul (being connected to the spirit) touches the spirit.

i agree that many things (even some Christian music) doesn't do what it should, but that doesn't mean we should not create. creativity is of God & if we don't use anything that God gives us, then it's like saying to Him "I don't need You & Your gifts!" :(

God is the author of creativity. look at your body, the universe, the dirt, the air, animals...

He is creativity and He wants us to use what He has given us to glorify Him - be creative! :)

I wish more people would use their creativity for God. :'( Pity they don't.

I have a natural talent as a programmer. As such my minds way of thinking is similar to it with alot of logic and stuff. I want to make computer games.
My games however aren't gonna be GTA3 get a hooker own a nightclub stuff but games with a killer storyline realistic characters and a Christian theme the whole way through. (Although to get the full picture you need to have all 3 games that I'm planning).

What??? I'm confused. What's going on?

some Christian music is worthless spiritually (Sadie Hawkins dance) but at least doesnt drag you down spiritually. most secular music gets only that good, it almost never gets to the point where it can actually be spiritually uplifting to listen to. my opinion, open to debate.

There has been secular songs in the past that've made me want to praise God. Simply for his gift of creativity.

Doesn't make them ok tho.

Skelfy let me guess, the old "Would God have you listen to that noise?" routine?
All forms of music are wrong and evil except the ones your parents listen to?

i wouldnt say secular music is wrong but its not good but when you have listined to it for so long you dont even realize all the disgusting things being said . i know when i first decided to only listin to christian music it was like being taken off a drug and incredibly hard ,but when i did my total personality changed because it wasnt being influenced by the media . i cold write a book on it but im going to keep it short, but i would like to challenge all of you who still listin to secular music to only listin to christian music for 30 day then go back and listin to or read the lyrics of bands you listin to before and you will be surprised. oh and one more thing it has been proven that the easiest(did i spell that right?)way to remeber some thing is to make a song about it , but my point is all kinds of things you are against your singing and repeating in your head.i havent listined to secular music for 4 years and i can still remember all the words to the songs i listined to. ok i said i would go long to late now i put more than 2 cents in. bye

I'm sorry, but whoever said that creativity can not be from God is plain wrong.

God is the ultimate creator; he made everything on this planet and he gave every single person talents that are to be used to glorify Him.

For me, the special gift God has given me is the ability to write. This whole subject is very important to me, because it is a part of me that I solely live for... to write and thank God that I am able to do this effectively.

Why wouldn't God want us to use this gift he has personally given to us? It's wasteful.

On the subject of secular music... I feel that if it isn't degrading and doesn't inhibit your walk with Christ, it shouldn't be completely shut out. There are times when this type of music might hinder your walk, that is when you shut out those bands.

I had to give up listening to Offspring and Blink182, for the fact that their songs were highly obscene and very detrimental to me and the people around me. Music that glorifies God or reveals realities and thoughts I never thought of before are acceptable to me, even if the band doesn't claim that they are Christian-based.

I think that this is a very touchy subject, but here's my opinion: some secular music can be very degrading, and i already have incredible struggles with my relationship with christ, but at the same time, there are hardly any really good christian bands that i really like. some of the pop people have it right, but i can't stand pop, and there are very few good rock ones. hold on. my brother is having a math crisis. more later

ok. i have finished explaining the basics of division, and i shall now continue. I think that we should all get together and form a national christian rock station, but that wouldn't solve the problems. i find myself listening to music that reflects my mood. if i'm angry at the world, i tend to listen to Linkin Park. Having another suicidal day, Good Charlotte. Happy and relaxed, Pillar or Relient K. this probably isn't healthy, but i find that when i'm in a certain mood and want to listen to music, anything else just annoys me.

I think that we should all get together and form a national christian rock station...

have you checked out christianrock.net (http://www.christianrock.net) or radiou.com (http://www.radiou.com)? you can listen to them anywhere you have an internet access (& a type of media player).

I know that this is going to make me sound really old but you guys dont know how fortunate you are to live in a period of time when there is so much good Christian music. If you can't find a style you like you havnt looked very hard!!
When i was a teenager CCM was in its infancy so If you liked rock music then secular was just abou your only choice.
I grew up listening to the likes of KISS ,Ted Nugent,Boston,The stones.The Eagles and such....but as the lyrics became more and more vulgar i pretty well stopped listening to it all..but now with good groups out there like well.... SKILLET!!...you can rock out and get ministered to by cool guys like John Cooper 8)
I am sure that Skilletosis can relate with me on this. ;)
Ok I am done with my "you dont know how lucky you young people are" speech....oh wait did i ever tell you how i had to walk to school in five feet of snow ;)

Absolutely J3. The only choice I had in high school was Petra or the punk band God Rulz. I was in no way walking with the Lord at the time so it wasn't like there was anything to spark my interest musicaly. Oh and the lovely lyricks... There was a song from Black Sabbath that had a line in it "my name is Lucifer, please take my hand".

I'm so thankful for the awesome christian music there is now. And all the festivals. Ya know the Us Festival ended up a finacial falure. But you see Cornerstone, Festival con Dios, and the likes that are going strong.

So basically with all the awesome christian music I refuse to listen to secular music. I see no reason to make time for it. It's all about sex, drugs, and suicide. I'd rather rock hard worshiping with bands like Skillet any day. Being a christian is not a sentance of a life of boredom. Rocking out and praising is fun, and edifying; and if you don't like it you may not enjoy eternity considering it's full of constant praise to God.

J3-5 miles, uphill, in the snow, barefoot...

Ozzy Osbourne's a little messed up. Look at what he was like 20yrs ago and look at him now. Drugs n booze have destroyed him.

I think that we should all get together and form a national christian rock station...

have you checked out christianrock.net (http://www.christianrock.net) or radiou.com (http://www.radiou.com)? you can listen to them anywhere you have an internet access (& a type of media player).

I have, but my computer is a poopyhead and never plays music like that right >:(

ok. i have finished explaining the basics of division, and i shall now continue. I think that we should all get together and form a national christian rock station, but that wouldn't solve the problems. i find myself listening to music that reflects my mood. if i'm angry at the world, i tend to listen to Linkin Park. Having another suicidal day, Good Charlotte. Happy and relaxed, Pillar or Relient K. this probably isn't healthy, but i find that when i'm in a certain mood and want to listen to music, anything else just annoys me.


Thats like putting fuel on a wildfire..........We are suppose to be christ like, now somebody please tell me how Linkin Park is going to help you grow closer to a God that thrives on peace and justice when their music copes with mainly bitterness and anger.

i know. i'm stupid. horribly stupid. should stop listening to music altogether. ah well...

i know. i'm stupid. horribly stupid. should stop listening to music altogether. ah well...


Your not stupid at all, dont even think that. As I said before, there is nothing wrong with listining to Secular music. But just be careful to what you listen to, ask yourself these questions before listining to it:

1: does the lyrics match up with my morals and what I stand for and believe?

2: Is this helping me to grow closer to God or is it pusing me away?

3: What am I taking from this music that is positive?

I cant speak on God's behalf, nobody can. Everybody has a free will, and they are gonna use it the way they want. But just check up with God and get the go ahead with him before listining or doing anything in your life that influences ya.

Right,
some people think that the musicI listen to is "evil" because it has a sycopated rythem. Which does not mean anything at all.
And I don't consider some music that others consider secular, well, secular.
If it has good lyrics, and it's pulling you up, and not down, then I don't consider it secular.
But you also have to set limits for yourself too, like "What does this song make me feel or think about?"
"Is it something God would promote and honor, or is it something he despises?"

Remember to take captive every thought, and think about what is pleasing to God. He knows your thoughts and your heart.

Also, don't just listen to something for a reputation, or just because your friends do either.
Some people have more self-control than others also, and certain things which make one person feel or act a certain way may not do those things to a different person.

Ozzy Osbourne's a little messed up. Look at what he was like 20yrs ago and look at him now. Drugs n booze have destroyed him.


this is true but he is a little better now, thanks to a doctor in New Jersey. but i like some of his music. it is my personal mission and prayer that he and his family be saved...wouldn't it be cool if you heard Ozzy and Zakk Wylde playing CHRISTIAN music!? i would FREAK out if i heard that...talk about headbanging!

I think that if you're spiritual walk is able to be swayed because of a song then you have more issues to worry about than what music you listen to

Like it or not music affects you, can be good or for bad. It has nothing to do with 'issues' its a simple matter that music affects ppl.
Slipknot make me suicidal, why I don't know. So I just don't listen to them. I could be in a perfectly fine happy mood with no problems, listen to them then I start to get depressed.

U seem to underestimate the power music has.

I think that if you're spiritual walk is able to be swayed because of a song then you have more issues to worry about than what music you listen to


true, if you were swayed in your walk by a song, that would be different. but an entire album is different. the small things in the music come together to have a larger affect on you. it's sorta like when you take a walk while listening to music. if you listen to Skillet's Collide, then you will walk faster than if you listened to Ardent Worship or something slow like that. it's not like you choose to walk faster, it just happens. it's unconscious. you can walk slow while listening to fast music, but you have to constantly check yourself.

the same is true in ordinary life. you can listen to some (notice i said some. marilyn manson will most definitely have an affect on you even when you watch yourself) music & not have a change in attitude because of it. but you will have to watch yourself. it gets into you. they say the best way to memorize something is to put it to music. if that's true, then a song is the thing that will most easily get stuck in your head. & you know what they say, "garbage in, garbage out."

Like it or not music affects you, can be good or for bad. It has nothing to do with 'issues' its a simple matter that music affects ppl.
Slipknot make me suicidal, why I don't know. So I just don't listen to them. I could be in a perfectly fine happy mood with no problems, listen to them then I start to get depressed.

U seem to underestimate the power music has.
.

i totally agree music does affect u

freaky..when i signed on to this thread, it had been read 666 times.. just though id mention that...

I never liked that number.... I wonder why?

geez i cant imagine...

I liked what unshakeable said about walking and how it would change by the music, unconciously. And I have to say that I completely agree with that parallel. You may say "just because I listen to it doesn't mean I believe it or will adopt the ideas in the lyrics as my own" but subconciously your attitude will change with time. Ultimately listening to Christian music is better because your subconcious thoughts will be one with what you conciously know to be true concerning God.

It reminds my of the scripture, "A house divided against itself cannot stand." *something like*. If part of you is listening to garbage and the other side of you is listen to God you are going to fall. I, by all means, don't mean that you can't listen to secular music but if you are dwelling in it and not God, it ends up being like the trying to serve two masters thing. And it just can't be done.

Music does affect you. I'm not going to say that secular music is bad. I used to listen to secular music not to long ago, and i had a different mindset then i do now that i listen to Christian music. I believe that God has to convict you and you alone. I tried to fight it for a long time, but He got me one day and told me get rid of that. I now listen to music that glorifies God and has a good Christian message. It doesn't have to be directly toward God, but can also be about everyday issues we as Christians face. Many Christian songs speak to us because they connect to our lives. Many churches think that Christian rock is bad, because is sounds wordly. Even my church thinks so. But I believe that if it has a good message that glorifies God and helps a person through life with a Christian message, what's the hurt? I believe God uses Christian rock and other types of Christian music to reach different types of people. Not all Christians get excited over hymns all the time. Christian rock is a way to reach others. Overall, the main point im trying to make is, listen to the song. Is it glorifying God? Is it taking your mind off the Lord? As long as you have a good mindset and it's on the Lord, then listen to it.

Phillipians 4:8
"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever thigs are pure, whatesoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

Many churches think that Christian rock is bad, because is sounds wordly. Even my church thinks so.

I always find that argument amusing. My usual response is "So it sounds worldly does it? Did you know that the clothes you wear are worldly? The food you eat is worldly? The cars you drive are worldly? Oh dear you better lock yourself up in a wooden box totally naked with no food to stay away from all the worldliness, but oh no. The BOX you are in was made in the world!"

Its majorly sarcastic but thats the point. Biblical worldliness is sin, sinful attitudes, sinful thoughts, sinful actions. It isn't a form of art.

http://www.mindspring.com/~brucec/apol.htm

check that out. A website dedicated to Christian Rock apologetics.

"So it sounds worldly does it? Did you know that the clothes you wear are worldly? The food you eat is worldly? The cars you drive are worldly? Oh dear you better lock yourself up in a wooden box totally naked with no food to stay away from all the worldliness, but oh no. The BOX you are in was made in the world!"



Yup, that's exactly right. You could even go to say that the hymns that are said to be the only way to praise God musically is worldy. They were created by man, the man is of sin nature, and sin is of the world, therefore, the hymns are worldy. Nope, we can't have hymns in church. It's worldy. Burn them all!!! Just kidding, but essentially, that's what would have to happen. If it praises God, and reaches people to get saved or be better Christians, what's the hurt? It just seems ridiculous that even Christians bash something that is reaching people to be saved and to be better Christians. Not all people enjoy every single hymn out of those books. Personally, some of them I can't sing because they are so bland and no fun to sing. ;D

And no, I'm not bashing hymns, I was just trying to make a point. Both Christian rock and hymns are created by people who were convicted to write what they felt about life and God. I'm not saying to burn hymns, i'm just trying to say that both hymns and other peices of music do the same thing, but reach different people. People need to stop bashing something that's good!!!! LIKE SKILLET!!!!

You could even go to say that the hymns that are said to be the only way to praise God musically is worldy. They were created by man, the man is of sin nature, and sin is of the world, therefore, the hymns are worldy.

many of the hyms that are in the hymnals have aspects that are from "the world" beyond just the authors being human. the tunes themselves of some were folk tunes, the popular music of the time. just like now! "Collide" is Christian music in the same style as the popular music of the time. so, in a sense, rock music is in-line with the hymns of back in the day.

few comments.
Firstly it annoys me when the anti-rock critics moan that not many songs in C Rock mention Jesus yet I can open the average hymnal and show them hundreds of songs that mention neither Jesus nor God not Christ nor anything! Amazing Grace for example. A well known hymn that even alot fo the unsaved know! DOES NOT MENTION CHRIST.

secondly. The anti-rockers are actually giving Satan credit for creating something. NOT ONCE in the bible is he given credit for creating something, yet the anti C rockers are giving him credit for making something... Hmm and they say we're the ones not right in the head.

Furthermroe, I've read alot of anti C Rock articles. More than is prolly healthy (lol) and a pattern I've noticed is that the look at the Christian band, find a secular band that sounds/looks like them. Find EVERYTHING wrong with the secular band (which isn't that hard) and blame the Christian band for it all. They seem to know nothing about the Christian bands yet know every teeny detail of the secular ones. They read magazines (that shud just be burned) to get their info, listen to these anti-Christ songs and watch their videos.... and they say we're bad?

i know what you mean skynes, i listen to music lots, and listen to a both lots of Christian punk/ska/rock bands and many secular bands of the same genres, and i hate how people say stuff like 'how can they be a christian band if thats what they sound like' and all that sort of crap, and i see nothing wrong with liking secular alternate bands, yes i agree that music DOES effect the listener, is doesn't HAVE to and is not necesseraliy bad, people just ASSUME,

and it only affects you either negatively or positively if you let it. In defence of much of the Christian community i will say that there does exsist people who accept me as i am, my church has many people(actualy the majority) who accept that people are diverse, some like listening to nothing, some like slow christian hymn CDs(personally i really am not a fan of worship CD'S, with a few notable exceptions) and some who like heavier faster stuff, anyway this turned to a kinda rant so ill stopp now

For some reason worship music I can not worship to. It bores me. I dunno why it just does.

I think that music is going to affect your subconcious whether you like it or not. It's inevitable. So I want to make sure that the things going into my subconcious are edifying and God praising.

here is my 2 cents...
Its diffrent for everyone....Most secullar music causes me to stumble...But others are stronger and it doesnt affect them. Its just like drinking...Some people cant drink without getting drunk, other christians can take an occasional glass of wine and wont think twice about drinking more...
But what it really comes down to is "what is christian music" Is Christian music a band with christians in it wrighting music about whatever??? Is it Christian people making music about God??? What is Secular music? NonChristians in a band???
You get my point??? If you are not strong enough to determine what music is good to listen to without a label that says CHRISTIAN and NONCHRISTIAN... then dont listen to music at all. Read the lyrics, read interviews, find out what the band is about...I dont listen to some christian music because they are all about money and not about praising God in my opinion.... I would rather listen to a secular band that admits they dont praise God than a "Christian" band that says they do, but they really dont.
..::If you are lukewarm, I will Spit you out of my mouth::..
Later
Andrew

that's a good defnation of this. I said this b.c from my understanding you said we shouldn't label music, but decide what you want.. If that's not what you're trying to say.. then i'm torribly sorry that I didn't understand what ya suppose to say.

Personally i think it is ur personal conviction from God....
But then again in the bible says fill ur mind and all with love joy peace and all that stuff fruit of the spirits.. and about how ur body is the temple.. but i personally think its a conviction from God. Some music can effect a person bad then another person. so it depends on urself...
I agree with that that's why I listien to both.

I think that listening/not listening to 'secular' music is all about your own personal convictions. I know that for some people, if they listen to non-Christian music, it can bring them down really easily. Music from a certain period of their life can bring back feelings, emotions, memories, et cetera.. that aren't 'good' for t
That would be Pennywise for example

that's a good defnation of this. I said this b.c from my understanding you said we shouldn't label music, but decide what you want.. If that's not what you're trying to say.. then i'm torribly sorry that I didn't understand what ya suppose to say.

I totally didnt understand what you wrote...but what i said was dont depend on the market to decide what is christian or not... We need to determain for our selves.

what i said was dont depend on the market to decide what is christian or not... We need to determain for our selves.


I totally agree with that. Sometimes ppl put too much faith in what the industry says is Christian and is not Christian.

What I think is, if you stay away from secular music that promotes sex, drugs, crime, racism, treating women like items, and (most important to me) disses Christianity and God, it's okay to listen to.

What I think is, if you stay away from secular music that promotes sex, drugs, crime, racism, treating women like items, and (most important to me) disses Christianity and God, it's okay to listen to.

Yeah, i aggree

or how about not taking the lyrics to seriously god loves all kinds of music remember?.

eh, No.

While you may not take the lyrics seriously, your subconcious will. Like my signature says


"Wot you put into your head, you're going to get out of it. Put junk in - get Junk out. Put Christ in - get Christ out. "

Like it or not, ur subconcious will start taking things from song lyrics and adding them to itself. May start out ok but prolonged exposure WILL have an affect.



God may love every kind of music (he created music after all) but he doesn't love sin. Disbelief is sin, pre-marital sex is sin. Songs promoting these things God most definitely does NOT love.

Boston


HEHE!! ;D

What did you guys listen to back then? What were the 'big' bands back then and how were they lyrics-wise? I'm just curious to know...

God created everything, even darkness *gasp* so the music should be fine as long as it's for the glory of God and to prepare us for his kingdom.

Darkness isn't created. Darkness is the abscence of light. :P

Boston


HEHE!! ;D

What did you guys listen to back then? What were the 'big' bands back then and how were they lyrics-wise? I'm just curious to know...

God created everything, even darkness *gasp* so the music should be fine as long as it's for the glory of God and to prepare us for his kingdom.


well big bands lyricks.-

Black Sabbath-"my name is Lucifer please take my hand"
Rolling Stones-"let's spend the night together"
Rod Stewart-"hot legs wearing me out"

And lets not forget people like Jimmy Hendrix, Jim Morrison, and Janis Joplin who were so high when writing songs that they either made no sense or were unintelegable when they performed cuz they were totally loaded. For those of you who are very young adults all you need to do is watch VH1 Behind the Music and see that 95% of the featured artists have either 1 or more band members with a serious drinking or drug problem. Not much to look up to which is what many do.

Man I have not listened to secular music for over 10 years and I still remember these. Which is one reason I thoroghly believe that secular music has no place in the christians ears. I really don't want to try and remember tthese. I am utterly ashamed of singing along to this garbage. Especially the first example. So if you think it doesn't matter THINK AGAIN.

This is one of my most important reasons for my disagreement with crossover bands. Jesus didn't "hang" out with the worst. He went to them, (sometimes ate with them) and ministered the love and grace of God. He spoke out against sin and taught repentance. When He was done speaking He left the people with the choice to follow Him or turn away. Then He left to go speak to another group of sinners. I see that as totally different than being the so called christian band traveling and touring with secular bands. Those who went with Jesus followed Him and were disciples. Out of the 12 only 1 was unwilling to truely follow....

I think Jimmy Hendrix once said that on stage he feels like something else is controlling his body and playing for him.

that something else was acid... he was tripping most of the time he performed..

wow, that is weird.. really weird. I saw Britney Spears.. her set was awful... I could go on.

i see nothing wrong with liking secular alternate bands, yes i agree that music DOES effect the listener, is doesn't HAVE to and is not necesseraliy bad, people just ASSUME,

and it only affects you either negatively or positively if you let it.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Just as in a worship service you can get so caught up in the Spirit you don't know where you are, you can also think and feel things while listening to secular music whether you want to or not. For me personally, I have felt a conviction to avoid secular music whenever possible. There are so many good Christian artists out now...to say that there are none you like would be a lie. Just look, you'll find them. It's my understanding that if you listen to music that glorifies God as opposed to secular, it will help much more in your walk with Him! Again...it's all about PERSONAL CONVICTION...I think that's been established at this point. I have to disagree when people say that if music does not have references to sex, drugs, etc., it's okay to listen to. How is that? If you use that as an excuse to listen to certain kinds of secular music, you are allowing more world and less God into your life. Someone also said that you never know what is worldy or Christian music. The only way to know is to LOOK for yourself...that's all you can do. Just basing the band's faith on it's lyrics and music would be a mistake. And lastly (i'll shut up now), worship music ROCKS!! I think it's the best part of church...but that's just me. I had to say it!! My two cents...

personally i listen to death metal and *satanic* stuff for the musical style you know? i mean that dont mean im evil or satanic but i like all styles of hardrock/metal so i listen to so called evil and christian stuff like i heard the band cradle of filth then later on got in to the band EXTOL so its all about style and preferance in my opinion [color=Green][/c :(olor]

i think that it is ok to listen to secular music, sometimes.. i mean.. u need some positive stuff, but i think that in order to get out of the little Christian bubble we place ourselves in we need to also get into the secular world.. and music is an easy way to do that... i talked to soem ppl from work about this subject. i think that when u first become a christian, often you enter this bubble.. when u start maturing in your faith you get out of your bubble! some ppl get so mislead when they listen to secular music, so find somethin else if thats you! i listen to alot of christian artists, but recently i've been gettin back into secular music.. i've been listenin to linkin park and stuff... not only has it given me opportunities to get to know ppl at skool, cause i have soemthin in common with them.. but i have also had many opportunities to witness on the linkin park message board! so i think its not neccisarly a bad thing if u do good with it!

I have knowledge of a lot of secular artists and what they play, even though I don't listen to them. I've been able to use that to speak to ppl instead of me listening to them I just know about them.
It IS good that you know the bands. that way if someone asks you know who they are and can provide a Christian alternative (if it exists)

Better to be able to talk to them about it than turn and say - Never heard of them- to every band they mention. Its like an instant barrier between you and them.

Better not get carried away though. I am 100% positive that even if music doesnt have that big an affect on you long term exposure WILL affect you.
----------

One question. Something I've been thinking about are the Christians who say "Music has no affect on me, so I listen to it all"

Is it possible that the way their walk and life is now IS affected that their faith ISNT as strong as it could be. But since the music is such a normal part of life they don't know what life without it is like? And if they quit secular music for a while they may find themselves in a much stronger walk?

Think that's possible?

One question. Something I've been thinking about are the Christians who say "Music has no affect on me, so I listen to it all"

Is it possible that the way their walk and life is now IS affected that their faith ISNT as strong as it could be. But since the music is such a normal part of life they don't know what life without it is like? And if they quit secular music for a while they may find themselves in a much stronger walk?

Think that's possible?

I think that music has affects on everyone.... music does influence your life.. i think it is quite evident in our society... so maybe some ppl that feel it has no affect on their faith are not strong Christians. But i think that if you listen to it not to much and stuff, and you feel its ok, your fine. to be honest, between the times that i listened to christian music, i was growing in my faith, but now that i am listening to secular music, other people are wonderin about my faith, and so i get to look deeper into it, and i'mm growing much more with the little secular music then not. but everyone is different. i think this is more a personal battle that you yourself needs to figure out with God...

i think this is more a personal battle that you yourself needs to figure out with God...

I totally agree!

i thought about this thread today when i was reading.

biologically, the heart physically responds to music. that's why music is so powerful. (i wonder if that's where the phrase "sing/play from your heart" originated.) the brain doesn't respond to music. (my sisters are examples of this...when they're thinking of solo lines, if they "think" too hard, nothing happens. but when they stop thinking, their fingers go to the strings and the melodies come.)

spiritually, there's a lot connected to music and sound. some musicians make sound to glorify God, while others don't.

and maybe someone already made this point...but there's no such thing as Christian musicians. there are instead musicians that are Christians. and Christ didn't give up His life to save music, but people, so music can't be "Chrisitian" because it can't be "saved." (and notice how there's no Mormon music or Muslim music or anything else of that nature.)

and with that...here's Romans 14:4
"Who are you to condemn God's servants? They are responsible to the Lord, so let Him tell them whether they are right or wrong. The Lord's power will help them do as they should."

in fact, the entire chapter of Romans 14 is kinda interesting in this point. Paul mainly deals with kinds of foods we can eat, but you could also put music in there.

i'm of the opinion that many musicians who say they are Chrisitians aren't making music that glorifies God from their heart. i've actually seen this example in my life where i, a poet who is a Christian, have created poems that did not specifically give glory to God. they didn't glorify Satan, but they weren't honoring Him.

there are many songs written by Christians that don't make me think of God or that inspire me to spend time with Him or focus on Him. yet the first time i heard U2's "With or Without You," i started crying, and started praying. and the song isn't even about God.

yet there are songs written by non-Christians that creep me out and really dusturb me spiritually, so i will not listen to them. you have to be careful. "Let the Lord Jesus Christ take control of you, and don't think of ways to indulge your evil desires" (Romans 13:14). if certain songs cause you to indulge your evil desires, then don't listen to them. take, for example, songs that stimulate lust. if you struggle with lust, and you listen to songs that feed that sin, cut off the songs!

i personally listen to very little "mainstream" music, and it's been the case all my life. even now i gravitate away from the popular music. but it's not my place to judge people who listen to the top 40. i used to judge, but i don't anymore in regards to this.

(on a different note...basically all the "Christian" music labels are owned by the major record companies anyway...so they're just sub-divisions of the parent companies.)

that is really cool. i never knew that about the heart & music. thanks Hollie. :)

that's a good point about Romans 14.4 too. we don't know where a person is with God. we can't say. heck! there are times i don't even know where i am with God. it's all up to God to work in our hearts. we can't comment on someone else's heart or motives, there is no way for us to know. we can only praise Him for the work He does.

Well, it all falls down to this fact: Not all secular music is bad, not all Christian music is good. I'll tell you from what I feel about it for myself. I think that certain secular artists and their songs are not bad. What either encourages me to or prevents me from listening to certain things is the message that is portrayed. I'll ask myself, "Does the message or the way the artists/bands represent themselves contradict God's Word? Does it make a mockery of God?" etc, etc. With that said, basically, I like to listen to stuff that encourages me personally. I don't listen to anything that has foul or vulgar lyrics, or makes women look like trash, because they're not. Also, when the message seems to support treating women like trash: nothing ticks me off more than females treated like trash. They're a wonderful gift from God, so us dudes should hold them to high respect. Jesus did.
Anyways, it's all about the message that is portrayed and how it can encourage me. Music, such as that on Skillet's new cd "Collide." John cooper said that he felt the Lord leading him to write the album to hurting people and encourage them. With me personally, that goal was met. yeah. i know i rambled here, but you guys get the point. just be careful what you listen to. yeah. rock on !__! :afro:

that is really cool. i never knew that about the heart & music. thanks Hollie. :)

that's a good point about Romans 14.4 too. we don't know where a person is with God. we can't say. heck! there are times i don't even know where i am with God. it's all up to God to work in our hearts. we can't comment on someone else's heart or motives, there is no way for us to know. we can only praise Him for the work He does.

you're welcome. :)

it's always easer to judge other people, isn't it? i have to catch myself with this all the time...pointing the finger is so much nicer than watching the four remaining fingers pointing back at you and all your hidden sins that you don't want God to know about but that He knows about anyway...

Again...it's all about PERSONAL CONVICTION...QUOTE]
I agree, Romans even talks about meat sacrificed to idols, and that if it doesn't go against your convictions, you can eat the meat, because it's just meat, but if it does convict you to eat, don't do it! Some people are stronger than others and can take things better. I can't listen to Tool, they are an awesome band with demonic lyrics that get me all depressed about stuff. My buddy can listen to them and he's a christian, and his walk is MUCH better than mine. He gives me so much insight to my life, and we pray together, and I can totally see that God's working through him. But it's just that reason that he can listen to that kind of music and I can't, because he's simply stronger in the faith, and it talks about that very thing in Romans. If it causes you to stumble though, DON'T DO IT! :D

Noone has answered my question yet

My buddy can listen to them and he's a christian, and his walk is MUCH better than mine.

^ This cud be a good example to try and explain what I meant with my question. Everything in my example is just an explanation of what I mean, I'm not saying ANY of this is true, just a parable to get my point across


Ur buddy has a great walk yet listens to nasty stuff. Is there a possibility that his walk IS stumbling, the way his walk is now IS a stumbled walk. But since Tool are a piece of furniture in his life no1 notices. Is it possible that if Tool were cut out of his life, his walk would be EVEN stronger than it already is?

What I mean is this

Secular music is standard in most Christians lives. they may have great walks with God, but what if that walk is being held back by the effects of the music, but since the music has been there so long nobody notices its effect? If the music is cut out the walk becomes stronger?

Do I make sense here?

yup, you make sense... that's a good question, i don't know the answer though...

that is a very good question. i've actually thought about that too, but more in the context of when we sin. what me & a friend figured out from this might be an answer to your question.

when we sin, it's like a chain holding us down from truly experiencing what all God has for us. but God's forgiveness is healing. He takes us & brings us back in communion with Him. we can grow ever closer to God. but one of my friend's professors likened sin to a bird with clipped wings. they can never fly as high again. but we figured out that it's kinda more in the middle somewhere.

God heals us through His forgiveness, fully. there are no blemishes on our life & our hearts any longer. but we are not as close to Him as we could be if we had never sinned. so in a way, each sin clips our wings a little bit & we can never fly as high. but we will still fly to the heights of everest through Christ. :) i don't know if any of that made sense or helped (or even applied to this discussion), but there it is.

To give my two bits (since I can ;)) music, as has been so many times stated, comes down to personal conviction. I didn't listen to any secular music for roughly the first 16 years of my life. Now I listen to quite a bit. For me it is a good way to get a pulse on the world, music reveals so much about the people that make it, and those are the people that lead the masses. As for myself, I found that the secular music itself didn't cause problems, it was when I stopped listining to Christian music for periods of time. As long as I keep time singing to God I stay shielded from Satan's influence. If I stop, well, I'm screwed. Anyhow, that is where my heart sits on the subject.

Noone has answered my question yet



^ This cud be a good example to try and explain what I meant with my question. Everything in my example is just an explanation of what I mean, I'm not saying ANY of this is true, just a parable to get my point across


Ur buddy has a great walk yet listens to nasty stuff. Is there a possibility that his walk IS stumbling, the way his walk is now IS a stumbled walk. But since Tool are a piece of furniture in his life no1 notices. Is it possible that if Tool were cut out of his life, his walk would be EVEN stronger than it already is?

What I mean is this

Secular music is standard in most Christians lives. they may have great walks with God, but what if that walk is being held back by the effects of the music, but since the music has been there so long nobody notices its effect? If the music is cut out the walk becomes stronger?

Do I make sense here?

No but dude, that's totally not even biblical. You know does not eating meat sacrificed to idols make you a better Christian? No, it's just meat. My buddy, does have an amazing walk because of another thing called accountability. "How are you doing? Have you been struggling in this area?" If he was stumbling and not seeking God's Spirit and he was totally in the flesh, how could he speak into my life the things of God unless he had first recieved them himself? It is possible not to struggle in those areas, even though you and I do.

One of the key aspects of music subconsiously affecting a person is repetition. Ok, so you heard the Blink 182 song saying "@%*# this place, your mom's a @#&%." The question is, how many times do you listen to this line? If you hear it once or twice, it shocks you, and you don't listen to it again, I think you'll probably be ok. You have experienced secular music so you can contribute in conversations about it, but you aren't exposing yourself constantly to the same negative ideas. It seems like a much better idea to repetitively listen to Skillet singing about God being more faithful than anything we know, about diving into God so that we imbed these and similar ideas into our subconsious.

Lyrics and habits are memorized through repetition. It is important that we guard what we constantly expose ourselves to.

No but dude, that's totally not even biblical. You know does not eating meat sacrificed to idols make you a better Christian? No, it's just meat. My buddy, does have an amazing walk because of another thing called accountability. "How are you doing? Have you been struggling in this area?" If he was stumbling and not seeking God's Spirit and he was totally in the flesh, how could he speak into my life the things of God unless he had first recieved them himself? It is possible not to struggle in those areas, even though you and I do.

I'm not talking about meat. Meat is just meat, but music is not necessarily just music. As has already been agreed - music affects you, what artists put intothe music and put into the lyrics can affect our minds. It affects the way you think, the way you talk, your outlook on life. It affects you without you even realising its affected you.

I didn't intend to say that ur friend has a stumbled walk, sorry if it came out like that, I have no doubt that he has a great walk. I was just using it as a way to try and explain what I mean cause I'm not finding it easy to put into words.


I'll try and explain this again.

Music affects us subconciously. We may not even notice its affect. Is it possible that what yourself and others may think is a good walk with God may actually be a good walk that ISNT at its full potential because it has been affected by music?

That by cutting out the secular music and its influence you find your walk will be stronger and your prayer life more fruitful.

Is this possible? Not just in one or two ppl's cases but in a vast majority of Christians.

It depends on what kinda secular music your listening too. I listen too secular bands like foo fighters,save ferris,etc but I draw the line too what im going to listen to ,as long as it doesn't go against my personal beliefs or anything that drags me down than I go and ahead and listen. I mean I can't be listening too marlin manson than claming I know Christ their has too be boundaries too everything no compromise.

It depends on what kinda secular music your listening too. I listen too secular bands like foo fighters,save ferris,etc but I draw the line too what im going to listen to ,as long as it doesn't go against my personal beliefs or anything that drags me down than I go and ahead and listen. I mean I can't be listening too marlin manson than claming I know Christ their has too be boundaries too everything no compromise.


I despise rap, rock is much much more better.

I felt lead to post this here as well as on the switchfoot message board. The post has to do with the position on music and what makes it Christian. Im not sure what the policy is on putting links to another board and thus I am placing a link to the original post at the bottom of this post. I hope im not breaking any rules. Thanks and God bless




As a Christian and a youth leader I have been praying recently concerning the crossover to mainstream markets of some bands that are considered Christian.

To that effect my first response was to be angry and disheartend. It began as a type of mourning for a lost friend. God then lead me to this message board, to this particular thread, and showed me this particular post. Having read the post I feel more at ease over the issue, if it is an issue.

You see Christianity is to be a seperate and peculiar people. The very word Christian means to be Christ like. Yes we live in a world full of sin and doubt. We live in a world where people kill their children and tell us God told them to do it. We live in a world where we as a people are fixated on the media. Who is popular, who sounds the best, what should I wear out, who do I take out, and various other questions we turn to the media for answers. Talk shows are rampant with people attemtpting to give us answers. Musicians, actors, pastors, politicians all try to get their points to the audience. In all of this there is one thing I have found, one thing that has been confirmed by reading this post. Christ is the most important thing in my life, and only I can remove myself from his hand.

See, Christ came to this earth in the form of a human. He lived a human life, and died as a human. He wasn't murdered or killed. He tells us himself that no man takes away his life, yet he lays it down freely for us. Christ during his time on earth ate with the publicans and the sinners. He teached us himself that the healthy are not in need of a physician. In this respect I am reminded of the parable of the master and his 3 servants. He gives one servant 5 talents, one servant 2 talents, and another servant 1 talent. The first servant uses his talent and gains 5 more talents. The second servant uses his talent and gains 2 more talents. The third servant hides his talent. When the master returns and asks for a report the first two servants report of their good works and their increase. Yet the third servant comes and explains he was afraid and hid his talent. The master replies that he is a wicked servant. God has shown me, and has lead me here I believe to post this and to encourage these bands to obey their calling. Obedience is better than sacrifice. Obey your calling and use your TALENT. Take it into the streams that flow accross our world so that it would reach all people. Remember that out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. This is the truest judge of what is good for your Christian walk.

I hope this encourages some as it has encouraged me. Very often when the lord ministers he not only ministers to those listening, but to those doing the ministering. In this aspect I am humbled that God chose to use me. I am humbled by the fact that my own short sightedness would have had me removing a portion of God's workers from my own life.

To the bands Switchfoot, Skillet, Pillar, and a few others I can only say I apologize. Im not out there with you. Im not on the road every day. Im not away from my family and friends working to further the gospel and give a positive message to a lost and dying world. I will pray for you and the success of your ministries as well as your artistic works. May God forever be the center of your lives..

Your brother in Christ
Bruce Gifford
77 Pleasure Lane
Morehead Ky, 40351
Stitch626@adelphia.net




***Original Message I replied to***

http://forums.sonymusic.com/thread.jsp?forum=644&thread=2729419&tstart=0&trange=15

i don't think it is a good idea to put your address online....

Yeah, that may not be the very best idea, even if this is a Christian website!

getting back to the main topic i also despise public kind of music lik e that on much music. Rap is the worst of them all and i hate it but also pop is a big one too. i think they are bad for any christian to listen too because they are filled with temptation. the main temptation is of course sex.i to this day have never seen a rap song not about sex besides toby mac(he rocks).lots of pop songs are about sex too. any person at first will say that they do not feel tempted but it will happen. it is impossible to resist. most of the time people dont even notice themselves changing. along with sex there are alot of other temptations that we do not really notice as easily in music.

it is through music that my faith in god stays strong. it's just alot easier for me to be a christian when i keep my music christian. i do like some non-christian bands like(collective soul, Tonic, etc) but i make sure that it is clean music.

my advice to all christians is to be EXTREMELY cautious around secular music because eventually you will crack and you will become a totally different person. i know it as a fact that music is a big way that satan tempts us and he is sneaky. god is the best defense agaisn him but that doesn't mean that it is a 100% protection.

I remember someone saying once that there's no such thing as Christian music; only Christian lyrics.

In that sense, secular/non-secular makes very little difference. The reason I don't listen to most 'secular' music is that I started listening to the radio, and some of the songs were just so gross, I had to stop! But there are some songs I like, and I listen to them. Some 'Christian' songs, I've listened to the lyrics and they depressed me just as much, so I've stopped listening to them too. But if you have the option; music which will lift your spirit and encourage you to live for God, or music that is full of bad language and twisted world views, what would you choose? There is nothing wrong with 'secular' as a whole; it goes on a song-by-song basis.

okay here is my view on this topic. i listen Christian stations must of the time and i listen to the local hard rock station. as i am a gutairst for Broken Trusts you have to listen to sercular music that where you get your what do the call it... hmm i know your musical inspireament. I am like the only guy who listens to secular music. Oh i fell so special lol... When i comes to sercular music ill stop when the are flat out mocking are God and just saying hes false and where god and stuff like that so yeah