"It is interesting to note that any religion which postulates the existence of fulfilled prophecy requires, at the very least, an agent which can move information from the future into the past.
In Christian theology, for example, God is assumed to exist unbound by space or time. Doctrinally, God is held to be omniscient and omnipresent. Statements in the Bible such as Jesus's claim "before Abraham was born, I am" (John 8:58) and Peter's claim "[Jesus] was chosen before the creation of the world" (1 Peter 1:20) (assuming the creation of the world began at t = 0) imply that God does not occupy the same timeline that we do. This is further supported by the assertion "I the LORD do not change" (Malachi 3:6), since change requires movement along, and constrained by, a temporal continuum.
Two popular interpretations of these statements are that God 1) exists outside the space-time continuum; or 2) exists at every point in space-time simultaneously. In either case, God can transfer information from one point in space-time to any other point without restriction." -this refrence is from wikepedia.org


I have a question, it sais God can send an agent to the future or the past, why would He send somone back in time? and would that person be called anything like a prophet or an apostle?

when i read that first line - ""It is interesting to note that any religion which postulates the existence of fulfilled prophecy requires, at the very least, an agent which can move information from the future into the past.""
i assumed they were referring to God being the "agent".. but in other religions they might have a human being as an agent...

sometimes i get real wrapped up trying to figure out how God is in all time, and knows all time... but the simplest way i can put it --- God just IS. was, will be, and all that..

I would say both your statements are true, God is both outside time and everywhere inside time. He is before the beginning of time right now (so He could still be electing ppl for salvation).

Woah, thats really wierd to think about and understand.

It seems to me, that if God is outside of time, then He can be at all points in time.

Think about this...we are three dimensional. Compare yourself to a paperdoll, which is two dimensional. Scientists have discovered 11 dimensions! I cannot even fathom that. And God is outside of these space confinements!

I heard someone say that if someone asks you to pray for something at a certain time, but you forget and remember after the event, you can still pray for it and the prayer counts because God is outside of time. That is wild to think about!!

This type of thing totally fascinates me. I wish I could comprehend it though...

I have a processing disorder.
I'd love to understand this stuff.

Something that seems so simple can turn out to be so entirely complex. Take light, for instance. Light is both particulate and wavelike. It is the universal unifier for both space and time. It travels at 300,000km/s and transcends time, as we know it (relative to earth). We are all aware that time is indeed but relative to the observer's vantage point. How one twin can travel to space and return to the other twin. Yet the earth twin will have aged twenty years, whereas the space twin has only aged a few "days". Quite an interesting concept.

I liked the theory that wikipedia brought up. How God can exist at every individual point in time. It was hypothesized that time continues on in all dimensions. That yesterday is still existing. Just in a different dimension. That tomorrow is existing, in a different dimension. Put this theory into practice and you will realize that every sin you have ever committed is still existing. Right now. If you think about how God forgives you of your hell-bound actions...he transcends time as we know it, and cleanses us. Wiping those dimensions clean of sin, as though we never even committed the act.

Another concept to be discussed could be that of "infinity". What are it's limitations? Is it bound by any forces outside of our own human perception? (space, time, quantity). Why do we see recurring themes of infinity throughout our universe? (God is both the beginning and the end, after destruction, the beginning comes once more, it is hypothesized that our universe is a closed system) It seems that scientists cannot find an end to the intricacies of our human bodies. As soon as they find the smallest particle to the atom, they find an even smaller particle. Right now, they are unable to observe quarks. There is so much out there that we are still unaware of- despite our high-tech equipment. Perhaps the earth was made to forever exist in "infinity" until sin entered the world. Is infinity the equivalent of perfection?

"I heard someone say that if someone asks you to pray for something at a certain time, but you forget and remember after the event, you can still pray for it and the prayer counts because God is outside of time. That is wild to think about!!" Ha that is so wierd but awesome, Ive always wonderd if you could actually do that.

Something that seems so simple can turn out to be so entirely complex. Take light, for instance. Light is both particulate and wavelike. It is the universal unifier for both space and time. It travels at 300,000km/s and transcends time, as we know it (relative to earth). We are all aware that time is indeed but relative to the observer's vantage point. How one twin can travel to space and return to the other twin. Yet the earth twin will have aged twenty years, whereas the space twin has only aged a few "days". Quite an interesting concept.

I liked the theory that wikipedia brought up. How God can exist at every individual point in time. It was hypothesized that time continues on in all dimensions. That yesterday is still existing. Just in a different dimension. That tomorrow is existing, in a different dimension. Put this theory into practice and you will realize that every sin you have ever committed is still existing. Right now. If you think about how God forgives you of your hell-bound actions...he transcends time as we know it, and cleanses us. Wiping those dimensions clean of sin, as though we never even committed the act.

Another concept to be discussed could be that of "infinity". What are it's limitations? Is it bound by any forces outside of our own human perception? (space, time, quantity). Why do we see recurring themes of infinity throughout our universe? (God is both the beginning and the end, after destruction, the beginning comes once more, it is hypothesized that our universe is a closed system) It seems that scientists cannot find an end to the intricacies of our human bodies. As soon as they find the smallest particle to the atom, they find an even smaller particle. Right now, they are unable to observe quarks. There is so much out there that we are still unaware of- despite our high-tech equipment. Perhaps the earth was made to forever exist in "infinity" until sin entered the world. Is infinity the equivalent of perfection?

Wow how could you comprehand this?

I have my own ideas about time, but I will save them till I'm sure I could figure out a way to explain them and not totally confuse everyone.

Think about this: What if the world began 5 minutes ago? And every thought and memory was placed inside your head as if you had really lived in but you didn't exist. They were just things placed there.

Mind you, these are just thoughts, not beliefs. ;)

CJ

That reminds me of this:

We are body, soul (mind, will, and emotions), and spirit. Right?

The body dies and returns to dust. The soul goes to Heaven or Hell. The spirit returns to Heaven (Ecc 12:7).

If our spirit came from God, and was with Him from the beginning, and was outside the time/space confinement...our spirit knows EVERYTHING. It was there when the world was created.

thats a really great point..
and it might also lend aid in the discussion about ppl who have never heard the gospel. its like a natural revelation that every human would be born with.
thanks for bringing up that verse.

Think about this: What if the world began 5 minutes ago? And every thought and memory was placed inside your head as if you had really lived in but you didn't exist. They were just things placed there.
reminds me of Descartes writings on how we know that reality is really real and not just a dillusion or a dream or the thoughts of a mad diety.

I have my own ideas about time, but I will save them till I'm sure I could figure out a way to explain them and not totally confuse everyone.

Think about this: What if the world began 5 minutes ago? And every thought and memory was placed inside your head as if you had really lived in but you didn't exist. They were just things placed there.

Mind you, these are just thoughts, not beliefs. ;)

CJ

I cant really explain why, but that makes me think of de ja vu. Random memories have been placed inside your head but you dont really know why. (tell me if that made any sense).

Wow how could you comprehand this?

Mere observation of the world around me combined with an obsession with Physics.

It's amazing what happens when you begin to truly observe that which is around you. Which is why I believe that those who have never been preached at can still observe God through his intricacies that are present in our everyday lives and be saved. It's just a matter of observing.

reminds me of Descartes writings on how we know that reality is really real and not just a dillusion or a dream or the thoughts of a mad diety.
That theroy was told to me by an old english friend of mine over tea when I was living in Australia. He had some very interesting views himself but he said he had read that in an article somewhere a few weeks before. It may have very well been the same. Interesting conversations one can have over a cup of tea, it never ceased to amaze me. I miss having my tea with interesting people who made me think. heh

CJ

Mere observation of the world around me combined with an obsession with Physics.

It's amazing what happens when you begin to truly observe that which is around you. Which is why I believe that those who have never been preached at can still observe God through his intricacies that are present in our everyday lives and be saved. It's just a matter of observing.

Thats very true.

i think time travel would be weird. that would mean that it would have to be like a different world. because if the past is already over and the future is yet to happen, why would things be happening when you went there? just a thought... :P

Just remember, all you have to do is turn on your flux capacitor and hit 88mph and you will be able to travel time.

/just watched back to the future 3 :D

CJ

^ i like those movies :D

If Time Travel is possible, couldn't we travel back to before the fall, and attempt to change it? That question alone makes me doubt the fact that God would allow time travel to go on.

good point. plus the fact that we've not run across any time travelers. you'd think if time travel were possible in the future, someone would have come back in time to visit.

Or they could have, and we just didn't know it.

perhaps you can travel back in time, but cannot change the order of events. :D This is a whacked out thought, but perhaps your frame of reference would be altered to that point in time. Who knows. A change in the past would directly impact the future, thus catastrophically changing everyday reality in the blink of an eye. *dun dun dun*

How could you go back in time and not change things?

If Time Travel is possible, couldn't we travel back to before the fall, and attempt to change it? That question alone makes me doubt the fact that God would allow time travel to go on.


I use to think about that, I mean, all they had to do was NOT eat the fruit! How hard could that be?

But then I thought about how much I mess up everyday. If we didn't eat the fruit, it would have been something else. Eventually, someone would have messed up somewhere. We are all imperfect.

Yeah, but it was God's will that it happened that way, and time travel would be messing with God's will.

^i agree. that makes a good point

Yeah, but it was God's will that it happened that way, and time travel would be messing with God's will.

I like your point, however it made me think of a few converse ideas. Is freedom of choice messing with God's will? If we chose one action over the other? How is that any different than going back in time and choosing a different action? The past would become the present. Consequently, our world as we know it would indeed be quite different.

Is genetical engineering messing with God's will?