I was talking with a few people last night and the subject of people in the church came up. It seems that there's a sort of caste system in too much of the church. The more people are involved, the higher they are, and those who are weak Christians seem like the "untouchables." It's a real pain and I find it extremely sad and frustrating. Thoughts?

ive seen that alot.. but the funny thing is - God said the least should be the greatest, last shall be first. and so forth.

just this last week, i finally comprehended the verse saying "in our weakness then we are strong"..
its a crazy backward thought, but, what if, the more we fall down the more mature we become in our faith.
why would God allow us to give in and fall, if he didnt have every intention to better us by it.

its our human tendency to expect the "good" well-behaving christian to be higher up on the scale, but i suspect God values us oppositely.

That was good. Should we put this thread with the church (poll) thread?

the more we fall down the more mature we become in our faith.


I agree with that 100%

If a mod wanted, they could merge them, but I'm not quite sure of the point of the other thread you're talking about, but they seem to have different topics.

I think it's all about the church, and if I'm understanding everything, I think this would fit in. A caste state in the church would be a "flaw", so I think it would go with the original point of that thread.

The church caste system is really a bad idea. Just pastor, and parishoner, (mispelled), and nothing else. Look at the catholic history with the caste system.

The most difficult part of the church caste is that when it is brought up, you usually get two reactions:

1) People scoff and ridicule you or
2) They listen with feigned interest and agree with you, yet do nothing.

If you guys really see this as a flaw as I do, I urge you to go out and preach this message. How many people leave the church and fade away from God because they don't feel equal with others in the church, those who leave because they are only spoken to by greeters, and only then because it is their job? If you'd really like to see this gone away with, speak with your pastors, ask if they can preach on this subject. A great change is needed in the church. Society is falling away, and one of the uppermost causes is unacceptance in the church. I sincerely and ferverently pray you will do this, and I ask you to tell your friends and family to do the same. Change can occur with a shifting in the dirt, and if enough of the dirt moves, then can you imagine the seemingly insurmountable boulder that can crash down and break apart? I would love to see a change happen, and we can do it, if only we have the courage and the determination to do so.

I stopped going to Christian clubs and pretty much everything else Christian, except for church, because of this. I guess most Christians don't appreciate fishnets and lace up boots. :P I'm all for breaking the caste...

The church caste system is really a bad idea. Just pastor, and parishoner, (mispelled), and nothing else.

What about the five fold ministry? (And I think we're talking about two different things here-leadership is what you are thinking about, yes? And the thread, wait, you could be right...caste has several different meanings...)

So, let me be sure I'm clear. Are we talking about leadership within a local church body, or are we talking about the "church" thinking they are better than (and excluding)people outside of their immediate church body?

I'm talking about the Popes, and other authority figures in the Catholic church, and what they have done in the past.

I'm talking about something like:

Pastor
Elders
etc
Ppl involved with X number of activities
Ppl involved with X-1 number of activities
and on and on and on

I think it should only be Pastor, and Member. At your church because people are involved with activities, they're better off then people who aren't?

There will always be castes in church as well as cliques. There is really no way of breaking this habbit. To do so would be to bring the church into unity and especially in this country, it won't happen. People naturally differ too much to be able to be unified. We are brought up this way in our schools and in our work and we bring it into our church cause we don't know any better. People like power and they like being in a position where they feel they are more special or higher up in the ranks.

CJ

I see your point, CJ, but God appointed leaders throughout the Bible, whether it was Moses, Aaron, and Miriam, or the Levites, the list goes on. I believe that God will deal with pride and remove or punish those people that fall into that (like with Miriam), and I believe everyone has to deal with that to one extent or the other.

I think we have to be so careful about criticizing the people God puts in authority. When Moses sinned and God called Him for a meeting, Miriam thought God was going to punish Moses...she was struck with leprosy, and that was it for her ministry. Even if we see pastors in sin, I think we need to take it to God in humbleness to see if there's anything He wants us to do about it.

Greg, I realize what you are thinking of is typical today, but I think that may be an example of the caste system gone bad. I think it is too much of a burden for one person to carry.

Now, I may be wrong, God could have a different plan in every town if He wants to, but I think churches should pray about the five fold ministry that Paul describes in Ephesians 4:11. The apostle (concerned with the foundation/"government" if you will, of the church), the prophet, the evangelist (he's focused on salvation), the pastor(he's into relationships, big part of his ministry is counseling), the teacher (focuses on the Word, really knows it, annointed to teach).

My church doesn't have a caste system and we work fine, in fact wheneve the
Baptist convention tries to get involved with our church they always screw up and tick everyone off. We just have a Pastor, the deacons, and the members. I don't think that there should be a huge authority system with the church. I don't support th pope, I think the whole concept of a Pope is messed up, sorry to any Catholics out there, but I don't think that God needs someone to speak for him.

My church doesn't have a caste system and we work fine, in fact wheneve the
Baptist convention tries to get involved with our church they always screw up and tick everyone off. We just have a Pastor, the deacons, and the members. I don't think that there should be a huge authority system with the church. I don't support th pope, I think the whole concept of a Pope is messed up, sorry to any Catholics out there, but I don't think that God needs someone to speak for him.

That's exactly how my church goes. The whole concept of a Pope really goes against Protestantism, which is based off of relationship when you think about it, just like confessions, and other things the Catholic church, as well as some Protestant churches do.