RAMONES
12-14-2005, 07:57 AM
hmph^_^
just thinkin about how many times have so many christians gotten dissed because they did'nt know what they were talkin about when EVOLUTION is brought up!!! ???
sooooo i'm gonna help those people out so they dont look stupid!
one of the things that get christians in sooo much doo-do is when they get mad! >:( CALM DOWN!!! dude! if you know what you're talkin about then you dont have to worry about getting mad and looking stupid!^_^ :P
another thing is: ADMIT IT!! ok....here's somethin that might get a couple people mad :-X buuuuut....you cannt prove that God is real. yes GOD IS REAL bt we cannt prove it! why? cuz we dont have any EVIDENCE.
Evidence- signs or facts on which a conculsion can be based.
see there's a difference between evidence and PROOF.
Proof- the establishment of a fact by evidence, the act of SHOWING that something is true.
you cannt take a piece of God and show it to everyone cuz God is SPIRIT!! If Jesus was still here on earth THEN we would have evidence cuz Jesus is God in physical form!!!!
so all we have now is just proof and that's the Bible and the way we live our lives. when we live like Christ and we think before we blurt out foolish mess we can disprove evolution!!!!!
hey! here's some more stuff to remember:
Evolution- the gradual process of development or change, the THEORY that all forms of life originated by descent from earler forms.
Theroy- a general priciple or expalination which covers the known facts; an offered OPINION which may possibly, but not positivaly, be true.

hmmmmmm ::] giveya somthin to thik about ::]
Now that u know what to say then GO OUT THERE AND FIGHT THE POWER!!! ;)

whereami
12-14-2005, 09:36 AM
thanks for that, that was a really good post. I come across the same thing at school all the time; People that believe in evolution come up and when you tell them that your a christian, they say "oh yeah, well you can't PROVE that God created the universe!", and that, as shanise pointed out, is exactly right. besised a few little qwirks in history and science, we have no cold hard facts that evolution is wrong (or at least, if we do have any, there are just as many going the other way aswell). alot of people see the fact that we have no evidence as proof that we are wrong. But in reality, the lack of evidence is just a testiment to our need for FAITH. (not sure if any of that made sence, but i tried ;) )

just for fun: just my 2 cents on evolution/creation: im not all that knowledgable on what kindof scientific evidence is out there, but one of the best quotes ive ever heard (sorry, i forget where i heard it or who said it ) went something like this "God created the universe, scientists are still trying to figure out how He did it". I love that quote because it shows that it really dosnt matter it God snapped his fingers and the universe appeared, fully functional, or if God snapped his fingers and then some freak chemical reaction happened that started evolution. what matters is that God started the whole thing. anyway, not sure if that made sence either, (im not in a very sence-making mood today) but thats my thoughts.

((to the mods: i thought there was already an evolution thread somewhere that this might fit into, but i couldnt find it. so if there is one, sorry, feel free to merge ;) ))

TheFireBreathes
12-14-2005, 10:08 AM
That is a cool quote William

yes GOD IS REAL bt we cannt prove it! why? cuz we dont have any EVIDENCE.
Evidence- signs or facts on which a conculsion can be based.


I can base my conclusion that God exists by signs.
-Millions of Prayers being answerd everyday
-Miracles, like people surviving in disasterous car wrecks, a friend of my sisters was shot in the head then fell off a 2-story builiding and yet survived and is still able to function properly.

Isildur9473
12-14-2005, 10:37 AM
That is a cool quote William



I can base my conclusion that God exists by signs.
-Millions of Prayers being answerd everyday
-Miracles, like people surviving in disasterous car wrecks, a friend of my sisters was shot in the head then fell off a 2-story builiding and yet survived and is still able to function properly.

What's the point in arguing with them? To this they could say

-Millions of prayers anwsered everyday? Maybe more like millions of random things happening.
-The Human body is amazing.

Maybe we should just pray for em? When people see things like that, that just makes em think you're even more stupid for believing them. Why not just witness/pray?

TheFireBreathes
12-14-2005, 12:56 PM
What's the point in arguing with them? To this they could say


they same reason why people argue in the Bush thread. So you can get your point across and hopefully make it so they will become a fellow believer.

amodman
12-14-2005, 07:16 PM
Albeit, evidence exists against the fact of extreme evolution and random Creation. Which, in my (and most Creationists') opinion, is evidence for God (at least, of some inelligent Creator). Besides that fact, plenty of evidence exists for demons and angels and God's intervention here on Earth. Ya know, whatever...

RAMONES
12-15-2005, 05:06 AM
That is a cool quote William



I can base my conclusion that God exists by signs.
-Millions of Prayers being answerd everyday
-Miracles, like people surviving in disasterous car wrecks, a friend of my sisters was shot in the head then fell off a 2-story builiding and yet survived and is still able to function properly.

AHHH!!YESS!!! :azn:
WE can show them signs and wonders cuz we understand WHO is doing these signs and wonders BUT can we make them understand them? No cuz non-spiritual people dont understand spiritual things. ;) yes WE ARE RIGHT but to them we are not! cuz to them EVERYTHING has to have a LOGICAL explination. they wont understand God's ways cuz they're not christians. that's why im saying dont try to bing it to them in a spiritual way cuz they wont understand it.

whereami
12-15-2005, 10:10 AM
AHHH!!YESS!!! :azn:
WE can show them signs and wonders cuz we understand WHO is doing these signs and wonders BUT can we make them understand them? No cuz non-spiritual people dont understand spiritual things. ;) yes WE ARE RIGHT but to them we are not! cuz to them EVERYTHING has to have a LOGICAL explination. they wont understand God's ways cuz they're not christians. that's why im saying dont try to bing it to them in a spiritual way cuz they wont understand it.
I agree with what your saying, but i think that a spiritual way is the only way to bring it to them. If you try to explain everything in a logical manner, your defeating the eniter purpose: that God cannot be explained logically, by our logic at least. some of the best evidence i have for God is personal experiences ive had just between me and God, that kind of thing can't be explained, but if you live it in your life, people should be able to see that theres something different. Most of the testimonies i hear say that they never believed God untill they felt Him for themselves or had some experience with him.

RAMONES
12-19-2005, 09:01 AM
I agree with what your saying, but i think that a spiritual way is the only way to bring it to them. If you try to explain everything in a logical manner, your defeating the eniter purpose: that God cannot be explained logically, by our logic at least. some of the best evidence i have for God is personal experiences ive had just between me and God, that kind of thing can't be explained, but if you live it in your life, people should be able to see that theres something different. Most of the testimonies i hear say that they never believed God untill they felt Him for themselves or had some experience with him.

but then again....if u bring it to them in a spiritual way ,how are they gonna understand if they dont have a relationship w/ God?
we can only bring it to em in a logical way cuz that's all they know.
like when God told Moses to tell the king that GOD was gonna do those things because if these things happened w/out warning or cause then they are gonna go LOOK FOR A LOGICAL ANSWER.
God wanted people to tellthem HE did it not man.
they dont belive in God so why are they gonna understand Spiritual things?

TheFireBreathes
12-19-2005, 10:15 AM
but then again....if u bring it to them in a spiritual way ,how are they gonna understand if they dont have a relationship w/ God?
we can only bring it to em in a logical way cuz that's all they know.
like when God told Moses to tell the king that GOD was gonna do those things because if these things happened w/out warning or cause then they are gonna go LOOK FOR A LOGICAL ANSWER.
God wanted people to tellthem HE did it not man.
they dont belive in God so why are they gonna understand Spiritual things?

Well how do you suppose every Christian in the world got saved? Im sure some of them were logical but a lot of them became saved during things such as prayer and worship. You'd be surprised how many non-Christians at my youth group fall to their knees and cry during worship services.

RAMONES
12-19-2005, 10:42 AM
Well how do you suppose every Christian in the world got saved? Im sure some of them were logical but a lot of them became saved during things such as prayer and worship. You'd be surprised how many non-Christians at my youth group fall to their knees and cry during worship services.

yeah that's what im talking about. i agree with u. they have to experiance God themselves. we can try to bring it to em in a way that they might understand it but it's up to them if they want to experiance God and come to a complete understanding.

Isildur9473
12-20-2005, 08:26 PM
Albeit, evidence exists against the fact of extreme evolution and random Creation. Which, in my (and most Creationists') opinion, is evidence for God (at least, of some inelligent Creator). Besides that fact, plent of evidence exists for demons and angels and God'd intervention here on Earth. Ya know, whatever...

Evidence of angels and demons and God's intervention? Like what?

disciple
12-25-2005, 03:58 PM
Maybe more like millions of random things happening.
If I were to believe that as the truth, I would have willingly killed myself a long time ago.

That is the point of view that they hold to, just as the prayers being answered is the average "Christian" point of view.

Those that say they will not believe until they see scientific proof -- not proof by experience or anything by that matter -- will never believe in Christ, because it is about faith, which is why I hold that there is no scientific proof of God's existence. Rather, there may be proof of events in the bible, or there may not be.

NightCrawler
02-24-2006, 07:13 PM
Wow. Lame.

We have evidence, no proof. The difference is seriously a big one.

frymeskillet
04-28-2006, 05:48 AM
There is one steroeotypical phrase that completes this thread: "I am a christian, so I try to shove my beliefs down people's throat."

No, I don't believe in evolution, it's a crock of crap, but I agree in that we can prove God in our minds, but to the unbeliever things can't be proved because they won't let us prove them our way. All I'm saying is for us to only pray like Greg said. All we can do is witness and pray.
My conclusion: Don't feel that because you are a Christian, that you should have to prove anything to non-believers...they will not listen without an open mind. They have their minds made up just like we do, and there is nothing we can do about it. End.

unshakeable15
04-30-2006, 08:30 PM
... but I agree in that we can prove God in our minds...
i know this is slightly off topic, but i have to point this out.

You cannot prove God with your mind. To say you can would be an insult to the Creator of your mind. You can show proof for God using logic and intellect (and many other things as well), but i don't think you can show proof of God. He is unprovable.

AsLaN
05-02-2006, 08:11 AM
Sadly I must disagree about not being able to prove God exsists and here is my basis for that. The change that occurs when a Person comes to Christ proves his exsistance. The love of God reflected by His children proves his existance. Now Physical proof is different but there is still proof. The Bible says that the invisible things of God are clearly seen through his creation.
In my humble opinion, I find it best to shy away from such debates and just live the life. As St. Francis of Asisi stated "Preach the Gospel and if necissary use words."
It is very difficult to tell someone God exsists. But as the Bible say they overcame him(The Devil) by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. There is no greater proof to show that God exsists than your own testimony. In that there is more weight than a thousand blind eyes opened and a thousand deaf ears hearing because it is your truth. It happened to you. Not some random guy on the street, not some person in Mexico, You. Think about it if you walk up to a person and say I knew a guy that got healed. How many thousands of reasons can that person throw in your face to disagree? Now when you look at that same person and say, "I used to be such and such, I used to do all these things". Or in my personal case.
"I used to be a depressed hurting person. I went through life beating myself up constantly. I would intentionally make jokes about myself just to be accepted by people and though it hurt so much I didnt know where to turn. But God made the difference. He turned my life around so now I couldn't care less what people think about me. The only one that matters has already accepted me for who I am and that is never going to change. His word says so. There is my proof and there is nothing you could ever say to make me doubt who God is and who I am in Him."
See what I mean here There is nothing a person can say to change the fact that God has changed you. But be warned saying such things like your testimony may draw people to watch you more intently. So now that I sorta preached a bit I think I am done! ;D

unshakeable15
05-04-2006, 08:37 PM
Funny, Muslims say the same thing. So do Latter Day Saints, Buddhists, Hindus, Scientologists...

Granted, i agree that God changes lives, but it is again not proof: it's evidence. Each individual is a one-man jury and they each interpret the evidence in the way they see best.

amodman
05-04-2006, 10:59 PM
Evidence of angels and demons and God's intervention? Like what?

Angels and demons might be countless eye witness accounts of such (whether people believe them or not). I know people who's spiritual gifting is Deliverance. That is, they help people be delivered of demonic posession. I've heard some pretty craaaaazy stories of what people have "done" with demonic power, most backed up by multiple witnesses. And of course there's whitchraft/occult magic/any magic in general. Go find a cult, a real one. You might find them actually doing things you thought were impossible (seriously). Only it's not them, it's demons. Also the Alien/Ghost crackpots kinda help us on tracking down evidence on that one ;). There's lots of these things.

Furthermore, we've seen people radically get healed of diseses that were supposed to be impossible to be healed from (we can trace how it happened...but doctors usually can't pinpoint how or why it happened, aka, what caused it). And again back to the previous spiritual situations, if you ever encounter a real exorcism, you'll see powers at work. But not just demons', but God's power to completely overwhelm them as well. There's evidence out there, physical and spiritual, of all these things. Whether one can prove (beyond eyewitness accounts and verbal admittance of those involved) that they are due to God, demons, angels, or whatever is quite a different story.

rock_out_loud7
06-27-2007, 06:46 PM
I think the best way to get people to god, and basicaly the only way is to pray for them. Let the light of god shine off of you, by being a friend, and simply bringing of god in simple, not overwelming, shove it down your throat kinda way. And pray for them. Because what I think most of us here agree on is we only have evidence, but not proof. Well we may have proof, but it is only proof to us, but to somebody else, they wont believe. But god works in mysterious ways, and if you pray to god, and listen to him, he will tell you exactly what you need to do to help someone, or bring them to god.

DarkestRose
06-27-2007, 07:03 PM
We cannot expect people to be saved solely by our prayer because how will they come to the conclusion of God in the Christian sense?

The same manner we cannot expect that if we're simply good, kind people that others will recognize us as Christian. People may just think "They're a nice person" and perhaps even come to the conclusion that it is possible to be a good person without becoming a Chrisitan.

We need to preach the Gospel to people. Of course if you don't live in congruence with your faith, you're going to be seen as a hypocrite. But we are commanded to preach the Gospel. But I think the heaviness of a person's evangelizing would depend on the person and the situation. I don't think that it should be done is a judgmental, condemning way because nobody I know of would be accepting toward the opinion of someone they thought didn't like them.

rock_out_loud7
06-27-2007, 07:39 PM
Yes I agree, we must preach the gospel, but praying to god and asking how he wants us to show him to a specific individual. I dont really know what im saying. I dont know if im making sence.

DarkestRose
06-27-2007, 07:48 PM
I'm thinking that it may be a three-fold thing: evangelism, prayer and living a life of faith.

My thinking goes like the influence Columbine victim Rachel Joy Scott has. She was very vocal about her faith and because of that is a Christian influence. However she was also adamant about acting out in compassion to others. And she prayed to God to have an influence in people's lives. Take out the Christian element and she was just a nice person. Take out the compassion and she was static Christian. Take out the prayer and maybe nothing would have ever taken affect. It seems each aspect needs the other.

rock_out_loud7
07-01-2007, 08:56 PM
Yes that makes perfect sence.