NightCrawler
12-19-2005, 06:34 PM
At whatever point you believe a human soul is bound to a human flesh ...think about it. At that point a soul, an eternally existing being, is manifested. If the body dies, the soul has no chance to deviate from whatever path it was set on. It is either going to Hell or to Heaven.

Too much power, I think.

drumchick101
12-19-2005, 06:43 PM
You make the soul sound like this controlled inadimate object that is controlled by the body. It is the other way around. The body is controlled by the soul and the soul desides whether to listen to the body or not. It's not like the soul has no choice in the matter. I don't know if I get what you're saying. Correct me if I'm wrong.

><sarah><

Spiffles
12-19-2005, 07:05 PM
humans made up of 2 things.. body, soul and spirit...
Body: legs arms, heart,liver,brain etc etc..
Soul: emotions,thoughts, feelings
Spirit the part of us thats spiritual and ties us to God and the part that goes to heaven (or hell) while the rest decays when our body and soul dies.



But what your saying is that whatever choices we make now, affect what happens to us in the afterlife(heaven/hell)?? If thats what your saying, then i agree with that, and yeh, its a fair amount of power, but thats why its important that we follow Gods laws throughtout our whole life, because what we do now doesnt die when our bodys die...

skynes
12-20-2005, 12:39 AM
Could you explain this a little cause I don't really follow...

lamb_servant72
12-20-2005, 03:30 AM
I disagree, Spiffles.

We are made of three beings:Body, Soul, and Spirit.

But, the Word says that all Spirits return to Heaven. (I don't have time to look up the reference right now, gotta go to work.) It is the Soul that goes to Heaven or Hell. The Body returns to the ground.

NightCrawler
12-20-2005, 09:11 PM
Humans make babies. People exist. People can be aborted, murdered, executed, etc.

They come in this world. They leave this world. We bring them here. They end up somewhere (infinitely good or bad).

We have too much power.

That make more sense?

Isildur9473
12-20-2005, 09:12 PM
How much power do you think we should have?

disciple
12-20-2005, 09:13 PM
Humans make babies.
Good way to put it. ;)


We have the power to both bring life into this world and end it, that's what you're saying. *shrug*

NightCrawler
12-20-2005, 09:15 PM
But what your saying is that whatever choices we make now, affect what happens to us in the afterlife(heaven/hell)?? If thats what your saying, then i agree with that, and yeh, its a fair amount of power, but thats why its important that we follow Gods laws throughtout our whole life, because what we do now doesnt die when our bodys die...
Wow... Read Romans. Like... and seriously read it. Law brings wrath. Faith declares righteous.

NightCrawler
12-20-2005, 09:19 PM
How much power do you think we should have?
Eh, we 'should' have exactly how God has planned this terrestrial orb... He said it was 'good' when it was completed. However, I am just slightly taken a-back from the huge responsibility.

drumchick101
12-21-2005, 10:16 AM
He (God) was a father, He saw the good in His children and refused to acknowlledge the potintial for evil because He saw the good in us. He knew that, even though there would be so much potential for irresponsiblity, He saw the beauty of what would happen if that responsibility was used the way that it should be. He wanted us to have choices, He wanted us to be different from the animals.

The thing is, is that He knew that we would take His gift and disgrace it, but He still chose to see the good. That blows me away.

><sarah><

skynes
12-21-2005, 10:41 AM
I still have no idea what this topic is about...

disciple
12-21-2005, 11:11 AM
I believe he's saying that the fact that God has given us the power to both bring life into this world and take it out is surpising.

But one forgets that many animals in the animal kingdom can do the same, so how could it be surprising?

skynes
12-21-2005, 12:28 PM
ohhhh.

I suppose it's only natural. We're made in the images of God, that gives us His character and His attribute. Among which are creator and destroyer.

amodman
12-21-2005, 01:54 PM
I still have no idea what this topic is about...

Uh, ya, I agree, lol. Any living being can procreate, otherwise life would not continue (in this mortal realm, anyway). Even still, God could still decide to not let certain humans or animals bring a being into existence. It's possible, though not likely. As far as death is concerned, murder is a sin that does damage to your own soul and being. That's not power, son, it's punishment, lol.

drumchick101
12-21-2005, 02:59 PM
Animals do not have free will or choice & animals do not have souls. It's the fact that we are eternal that he's focusing on because that's what makes it a big deal.

><sarah><

Spiffles
12-21-2005, 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by Spiffles But what your saying is that whatever choices we make now, affect what happens to us in the afterlife(heaven/hell)?? If thats what your saying, then i agree with that, and yeh, its a fair amount of power, but thats why its important that we follow Gods laws throughtout our whole life, because what we do now doesnt die when our bodys die...

Wow... Read Romans. Like... and seriously read it. Law brings wrath. Faith declares righteous.

Um.. what we do on earth does affect us in the afterlife.. If i choose to screw God, ignore him and do what I want, my afterlife is going to be completely different to if i follow God and his ways...

NightCrawler
12-21-2005, 06:19 PM
Animals do not have free will or choice & animals do not have souls. It's the fact that we are eternal that he's focusing on because that's what makes it a big deal.

><sarah><
Yeah. If my parents didn't have kids, I wouldn't be here, and I wouldn't put my faith in the Saviour. I wouldn't exist, I wouldn't go to Heaven.

Likewise, if my parents did have kids (true), and I was here, and I was murdered before I accepted Christ... STILL... I wouldn't be in Heaven. But I would still exist.

And thus sucking.

And thus... we have a lot of power, and that means responsiblity.

Sorry for confusing you, Skynes.

NightCrawler
12-21-2005, 06:23 PM
Um.. what we do on earth does affect us in the afterlife.. If i choose to screw God, ignore him and do what I want, my afterlife is going to be completely different to if i follow God and his ways...
It is not the obedience of the rules that makes us pure or going to heaven. It is our faith. Yet our lack of following every rule and still having faith still gets us to Heaven. Where you end up won't be changed upon following rules. Rules can't save you.

Spiffles
12-21-2005, 07:01 PM
I didnt really say anything about rules....
I talked about choice.. choose to not follow God and go to hell, choose to follow God and go to heaven.
I can choose to say i follow God, but if my actions are completely not that way, am I really following God? i'm not talking about making mistakes and sinning... by Gods grace, he forgives us when we ask, but i'm talking about things like saying i'm a christian, but in no way following God.


Another thing i beleive is that we are not all rewarded the same once we get to Heaven.. i beleive we are rewarded as to how we live here... and i'm not talking things like being a nice little boy and giving to charity and that sort of thing, but how i live for God. the guy that gives his heart to the lord on his death bed will go to heaven, but i beleive he wont be rewarded the same in heaven a the guy that served the lord his whole life doing Gods will. Both go to heaven and live forever happily, but it doesnt just end there.

Isildur9473
12-21-2005, 07:03 PM
Another thing i beleive is that we are not all rewarded the same once we get to Heaven.. i beleive we are rewarded as to how we live here... and i'm not talking things like being a nice little boy and giving to charity and that sort of thing, but how i live for God. the guy that gives his heart to the lord on his death bed will go to heaven, but i beleive he wont be rewarded the same in heaven a the guy that served the lord his whole life doing Gods will. Both go to heaven and live forever happily, but it doesnt just end there.

Doesn't the Bible say that no matter what you did/who you are, if you confess Jesus as lord you go to Heaven, and get to be with God? It doesn't say anything about levels of Heaven...

drumchick101
12-22-2005, 08:46 AM
Yeah. If my parents didn't have kids, I wouldn't be here, and I wouldn't put my faith in the Saviour. I wouldn't exist, I wouldn't go to Heaven.

Likewise, if my parents did have kids (true), and I was here, and I was murdered before I accepted Christ... STILL... I wouldn't be in Heaven. But I would still exist.

Taking it a step further, everyone who you would ever contact would be affected & God's entire plan would be thrown off. But, He knew you would be here so He banked His entire plan for His entire kingdom on it.

His enitre plan would be shifted because if you weren't here to do something in His kingdom, then He would have to have someone else do it, and then they would be in a different place, at a different time than in the original plan and what happens to what they were orginally soposed to be doing?? It goes on...

These are the moments when I realize that God is the best chess player ever.

Doesn't the Bible say that no matter what you did/who you are, if you confess Jesus as lord you go to Heaven, and get to be with God? It doesn't say anything about levels of Heaven...

Actually, I'm not sure, but I think that it says that we will not all get equal rewards. You cannot get TO heaven on good works, but I believe what you do for God affects part of what you get once you get home.

><sarah><

amodman
12-22-2005, 10:03 AM
Doesn't the Bible say that no matter what you did/who you are, if you confess Jesus as lord you go to Heaven, and get to be with God? It doesn't say anything about levels of Heaven...

Actually, no, the more you use your life for God and devote yourself to him here, the greater your eternal reward. I find that nice and dandy myself, but I'd just be happy enough to be there ;).

NightCrawler
12-23-2005, 07:02 PM
Taking it a step further, everyone who you would ever contact would be affected & God's entire plan would be thrown off. But, He knew you would be here so He banked His entire plan for His entire kingdom on it.

His enitre plan would be shifted because if you weren't here to do something in His kingdom, then He would have to have someone else do it, and then they would be in a different place, at a different time than in the original plan and what happens to what they were orginally soposed to be doing?? It goes on...

These are the moments when I realize that God is the best chess player ever.



Actually, I'm not sure, but I think that it says that we will not all get equal rewards. You cannot get TO heaven on good works, but I believe what you do for God affects part of what you get once you get home.

><sarah><
I realize that, and it isn't my point. My point isn't about God's plan. It is that God just gives us this AWESOME power and responsibility to bring life to this world that has eternal consequences.

And of course, we abuse it.

I like chess.

NightCrawler
12-23-2005, 07:04 PM
And there are levels of heaven. Peter is going to the 7th heaven?... I don't know... maybe a new thread?

skynes
12-24-2005, 10:03 AM
The only mention of 'levels' of heaven I know of was written by Paul.

The 3 heavens are.

Sky
Space
God's home.

drumchick101
12-24-2005, 10:23 AM
I realize that, and it isn't my point. My point isn't about God's plan. It is that God just gives us this AWESOME power and responsibility to bring life to this world that has eternal consequences.

And of course, we abuse it.

I like chess.

I'm horrible at chess, I like it, but I like to stick to scrabble. *eh hem* anyways. But that is all part of the responsibility that He gives us. By ging us the power that He has, He has given us the power the throw off His entire plan.

><sarah><

NightCrawler
12-25-2005, 06:20 PM
Again, I will say this. And caps for seriousness and a hope that people will probably find that this is Biblical, and that I won't have to say it again.

MAN CANNOT ALTER GOD'S PLAN. MAN NEVER HAS ALTERED IT. MAN WILL NEVER ALTER IT. GOD PLANS ARE ABOVE OUR OWN.

Spiffles
12-25-2005, 11:04 PM
except for the fact God gives us the freedom to choose what path to take. If Gods plans can not be altered in anyway, then God himself doomed all the people that have gone to hell... Do you really beleive God doomed people to hell with no chance to change that??

-----------------------------------------------------


I'd like it known, that i never said anything about "levels" in heaven, i spoke of rewards or treasure which is different to levels..

unshakeable15
12-29-2005, 09:10 PM
someone once explained it too me like a race. if you sign up, you get the t-shirt for the race. it's free for signing up. you could sign up, get the shirt, then sit at home and watch the race on TV.

but to get a medal, you must finish the race. each finisher gets a medal that says "you ran this race to the end." and some even get medals that say they ran their absolute hardest and won, through training and beating their bodies. they get medals even more precious.

the t-shirt is salvation, the medals are the rewards in heaven. we all get salvation free for signing up with God. but the medals take work, perseverance, and runing our hardest for the goal at the end of the course.