Isildur9473
12-19-2005, 09:49 PM
I've been talking to a member of this board who's female a lot about women's rights. She thinks that women are inferior to men, based off of the Bible. Is this really true? She brought up this verse.

"Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God... 7A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head."

That clearly says that women are servants of man. Are women inferior to men?

disciple
12-19-2005, 09:52 PM
That clearly says that women are servants of man. Are women inferior to men?
In my opinion, to call servants inferior is to assume Jesus Christ is inferior to man, as he often referred to himself as a servant of man.

Well, what I mean is, you can't assume that servants are inferior, as they help those that they serve. :)

Isildur9473
12-19-2005, 09:53 PM
In my opinion, to call servants inferior is to assume Jesus Christ is inferior to man, as he often referred to himself as a servant of man.

Well, what I mean is, you can't assume that servants are inferior, as they help those that they serve. :)

Then why does that verse exist?

disciple
12-19-2005, 09:57 PM
The verse actually says that a woman is a man's glory, so that definitely shows no inferiority, IMO. :)

Isildur9473
12-19-2005, 09:58 PM
The verse actually says that a woman is a man's glory, so that definitely shows no inferiority, IMO. :)

No, what does the part where it says "Women is Man's servant". What exactly does that mean/what does it mean for a woman to be mans glory?

Spiffles
12-19-2005, 10:02 PM
thats the English translation... I bet the hebrew version wouldnt translate exactly like that since English is a stupid language and doesnt translate very well at all from Hebrew.

But that aside.. "rights" and leadership which is what that verse is talking about are two different things. Females should have just as much rights as males.

Isildur9473
12-19-2005, 10:04 PM
But that aside.. "rights" and leadership which is what that verse is talking about are two different things. Females should have just as much rights as males.

By leadership I assume you mean only church leadership?

unshakeable15
12-19-2005, 10:29 PM
not only that, but within the household. so the husband is the leader over the wife. what that means is he must not lord it over her (it says that in Scripture as well), but must treat her as he would a treasure, 'cause that's what she is.

Mr. Xcitement
12-20-2005, 09:39 AM
A woman would be the glory of man, because we need them, we cannot have our race survive without them, because they can give the blessing of birth, which is one of the most amazing things in the world. I do not see women as inferior, but I try my hardest to work hard and make enough money so my wife won't have to work, because that is how much I love her, I don't want her to worry herself with work, I would rather she be at home and take care of the home for me, I'm not being sexest, that's just how much I respect her, she has brought one son into the world for me and we have a daughter on the way, and for those 2 blessings, I couldn't ask for anything more.

Isildur9473
12-20-2005, 10:25 AM
Wouldn't the ultimate respect consist of letting her do what she wants? I'm not personally attacking you, or meaning to bring you down in any way, I'm just asking.

skynes
12-20-2005, 10:36 AM
And if that is what she wants to do?

Isildur9473
12-20-2005, 10:37 AM
And if that is what she wants to do?

The by all means she should go for it.

skynes
12-20-2005, 10:39 AM
she has brought one son into the world for me and we have a daughter on the way

mmmm, Im gonna assume that this is what she wants.

PinkGoo
12-20-2005, 10:58 AM
Glo·ry
Pronunciation Key (glôr, glr)
n. pl. glo·ries
1) Great honor, praise, or distinction accorded by common consent; renown.
2) Something conferring honor or renown.
3) A highly praiseworthy asset.

skynes
12-20-2005, 11:18 AM
*hands Liz a hammer*

Nail has been thoroughly hit on head.

PinkGoo
12-20-2005, 01:22 PM
Nah, not me. Dictionary.com :P


Yeah, but anyway. Apparently from the definition, though... if Woman is Man's glory, then she is still an asset or a possesion. Not an equal. Maybe a wonderful, loved asset, but still a possesion nonetheless?

skynes
12-20-2005, 01:47 PM
Asset

1. A useful or valuable quality, person, or thing; an advantage or resource: proved herself an asset to the company.
2. A valuable item that is owned.
3. A spy working in his or her own country and controlled by the enemy

I would go with number 1. A valuable person.

PinkGoo
12-20-2005, 02:25 PM
But what about number two?

And what do you make of this part of the verse?
"...the head of the woman is man"

disciple
12-20-2005, 02:26 PM
But what about number two?
I believe it was referring to one.

Spiffles
12-20-2005, 02:27 PM
Asset

1. A useful or valuable quality, person, or thing; an advantage or resource: proved herself an asset to the company.
2. A valuable item that is owned.
3. A spy working in his or her own country and controlled by the enemy

I would go with number 1. A valuable person.




LOL at number 3 in relation to the female species...






j/k *runs and hides from the wrath of all girls*

terrasin
12-20-2005, 02:31 PM
AHahahahaha. I totally agree with #3. ;)
*runs*


j/k

CJ

PinkGoo
12-20-2005, 02:31 PM
I believe it was referring to one.


But it says "A valuable item that is owned." Women are owned?

bob
12-20-2005, 05:25 PM
Okay, I will surely get yelled at for saying this, but oh well. I question the 19th amendment (gives women the right to vote) often because of what has been accomplished due to that. A lot of women don't always vote by a person's political viewpoint, but on how they look, like Bill Clinton for example, who was "hip" had 4% more votes by women then men, which is a large amount. Let's face it, women make up the majority of the population (51%) so what they vote is what goes (hypothetically). I just don't think a lot of women put enough thought into their votes. Am I trying to portray men any better? No. But I just thought that i'd throw that thought out there.

Between women and men overall, a seven point difference exists in their voting — 51 percent of women voted for John Kerry, while 44 percent of men favored the Democratic candidate. Conversely, men preferred George W. Bush by 55 to 48 percent over women.

Women are 58% of undecided voters nationwide, according to the George Washington University’s Battleground 2004 Poll conducted September 20-23 (n=1,012) by Lake, Snell, Perry & Associates and the Tarrance Group.

skilltroks
12-20-2005, 05:52 PM
My thoughts:
Women shouldn't 'play' only the feminine roles, and be dependent on the man. However, consideration should be taken via mind structure, and all that.

theelectric3
12-20-2005, 08:14 PM
no one person is to dominate and control another. no one has that right. Christ Himself gives us the option to chose to accept His gift or not. He is a gentleman and will not force Himself on us. and if He won't (when He technically could) then no human should assume they are above God and are able to do so.

men and women compliment each other. we should recognize the strengths and weaknesses in each other. so i don't think we need to get all worked up about them. accept your differences.

Mr. Xcitement
12-20-2005, 09:17 PM
Wouldn't the ultimate respect consist of letting her do what she wants? I'm not personally attacking you, or meaning to bring you down in any way, I'm just asking.

What I mean is that I want to work hard enough and make enough money that she doesn't have to do anything, I'm not saying that I absolutely want her to do that, but I want to be in the position where she doesn't have to do it, but she can work if she wants, I won't stop her.

NightCrawler
12-20-2005, 09:25 PM
Servant? Now, I get a maid when I think of that word.


No. Wives are not servant under that idea.

Submission is a bit different. Thankfully we have unshakeable15....

Isildur9473
12-20-2005, 09:27 PM
What I mean is that I want to work hard enough and make enough money that she doesn't have to do anything, I'm not saying that I absolutely want her to do that, but I want to be in the position where she doesn't have to do it, but she can work if she wants, I won't stop her.

Ahh ok, that's what I thought you meant.

NightCrawler
12-20-2005, 09:29 PM
Husbands love your wives as Christ loves the church...


Now, is love totally selfish or anything like that? Then how do people get the idea that husbands have a right to order her around or play 'king' of the household and have her not be the queen?

terrasin
12-20-2005, 10:28 PM
Did Christ not make the rules for the church? ;) j/k

CJ

skynes
12-21-2005, 10:34 AM
But it says "A valuable item that is owned." Women are owned?

Yeah asset means different things.

ever heard the phrase "He's a valuable asset to this copany"?
The company does not own him, it means that that whatever it is is very very valuable.

Asset in relation to an item - a Valuable owned thing.

Asset in relation to a person - A valuable person. Not Owned.

PinkGoo
12-22-2005, 04:07 PM
Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word I think it's interesting how the first part of the passage, the one directed towards wives, only mentions submitting to their husbands and not loving them... while the last part simply tells husbands to love their wives.



However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband. Why does it say that the wife must respect her husband… but doesn't’t mention anything about the husband having to respect his wife?



Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers. Weaker? Meaning physcical weakness? Spiritual?



And a last one... A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.






After examining all these verses... I have a hard time doubting that, according to the Bible, women are inferior to men.

alorian
12-22-2005, 05:12 PM
Women are never right, so why even have a thread on womens' rights? Hahah, sorry ;) :P

Men and women are different. Neither sex is superior nor inferior. The Jewish culture is patriarcal, so society seen in the Bible seems to put men higher than women. God offers the same thing to men and women, though they are designed differently.

drumchick101
12-22-2005, 05:12 PM
Yes, and it is better that way. I don't know any particular reason why exept that that is simply the way that God made it & it is good. I like to leave it at that.

><sarah><

agent_c68
12-22-2005, 11:17 PM
while the last part simply tells husbands to love their wives.

It's not just to love, but to Love them as Christ loved the Church and love them as their own bodies. also remember, "love" isn't the bubbley feeling you get around that certain cute girl/guy, it's something deeper.

Weaker? Meaning physcical weakness? Spiritual?

It doesn't say. But what it does say is that Men should treat them as the weaker vessle. The way I remember my old youth pastor describe this verse is that women are the weeker vessle in the sense of being a fragil ming vase, It is of high value but not durrable at all.

according to the Bible, women are inferior to men.

I would caution you with that. I don't know that the Bible say that, but God has established Man as the ruler of earth and Woman as his companion. He was the one who created man with certain roles and women with other roles.

skynes
12-23-2005, 08:48 AM
Liz go here.

http://www.panheads.org/boards/showthread.php?t=1465

as~i~lay~dying
12-23-2005, 09:04 AM
I heard something about those verses that was very interesting. I used to despise the thought of submitting to someone, but at a bible study the leader said this is the way God planned it because He knows what we need. Women need to feel loved and cherished by there husbands. Men need to feel important and respected, and they need to be spiritually nurtured. So we are to honor and sumbit to them. Not that they are to dictate our every action. But sometimes they are right beacuse women can tend to make rash decisions because we ARE more emotinal. And if the man does make the wrong decision God will honor you and the man will be at fault not you.

unshakeable15
12-25-2005, 06:47 PM
Servant? Now, I get a maid when I think of that word.


No. Wives are not servant under that idea.

Submission is a bit different. Thankfully we have unshakeable15....
huh? ??? i saw my name and suddenly got confused.

NightCrawler
12-25-2005, 09:35 PM
Confusion is like cheese.

Some like it in an aerosol can, others like it sharp.

PinkGoo
12-26-2005, 01:56 PM
huh? ??? i saw my name and suddenly got confused.

Your own name confused you? You need help, Mike... :D

unshakeable15
12-29-2005, 09:11 PM
i'm just confused as to why i was mentioned. :\

Nightcrawler talking about cheese doesn't help either. tho it does make me a tad hungry. ;)

completely_nuts
12-30-2005, 03:03 PM
Confusion is like cheese.

Some like it in an aerosol can, others like it sharp.
I really don't see the similarities here.... I've never found myself wanting confusion in a can.... ::] tho it would be nice to spray at people...
now I'M confused...

NightCrawler
12-31-2005, 10:15 PM
I really don't see the similarities here.... I've never found myself wanting confusion in a can.... ::] tho it would be nice to spray at people...
now I'M confused...;D... My work here is done.

bob
12-31-2005, 10:35 PM
;D... My work here is done.

I think we can pretty much say the same for the thread.

unshakeable15
01-04-2006, 08:57 PM
Okay, I will surely get yelled at for saying this, but oh well. I question the 19th amendment (gives women the right to vote) often because of what has been accomplished due to that. A lot of women don't always vote by a person's political viewpoint, but on how they look, like Bill Clinton for example, who was "hip" had 4% more votes by women then men, which is a large amount. Let's face it, women make up the majority of the population (51%) so what they vote is what goes (hypothetically). I just don't think a lot of women put enough thought into their votes. Am I trying to portray men any better? No. But I just thought that i'd throw that thought out there.
(to help bring back the thread from living the life of a zombie...)

i have to strongly disagree Bob. it's not just women who vote on appearance. it's men as well. except we call it voting based on gut instinct.

-i like him.
-"why?"
-well, he look slike a strong leader.
-"what proof do you have of that?"
- well, none, but i can feel it in my gut.

you can't say only half the country votes based on appearance or on gut feeling. it's actually the masses. the majority of people, if you really ask them, do not vote based upon issues. i almost wish i still had the stuff from my poli sci class last year ("almost" because it was a horrible class i had to drop). there was good info there, in fact, the prof passed out a clip from a book who's thesis is that America survives because the nation as a whole does not put an concerted effort into voting (wish i knew the title of the book now...).

NightCrawler
01-04-2006, 09:02 PM
Psychological bias tends to be stronger than reason itself when it comes to humans.