alorian
01-02-2006, 08:48 PM
Nothing here has fully taken off yet... :-\

Romans, though. It's the only successful study I've done online, and it's been a while, so let's do it!

We'll do one chapter a week, starting each monday.

Chapter 1: (I'll post tomorrow ;) )

NightCrawler
01-02-2006, 11:15 PM
Nothing here has fully taken off yet... :-\
That is because for some reason, I haven't found the exact purpose/style/way of doing these kinds of discussions online. Especially in this forum.

Some rules, maybe I have not seen them... sorry... some rules/direction would help. (General Discussion, Mars Hill, Arcade... they all seem to have obvious purposes/styles... etc. ... this.. not quite so clear...)

alorian
01-02-2006, 11:31 PM
1) Read the chapter
2) State your general idea of the chapter
3) Bring up specific verses that stood out
4) Questions
5) Discussion

Does that work?

skynes
01-05-2006, 01:58 AM
Ooo Romans, my favourite book :)

I'll try and join in this one.

alorian
01-05-2006, 03:57 PM
Cool :)

Sorry bout not posting yet. School started yesterday, and I ran off of 3 1/2 hours of sleep, not fun, and I have gov't homework tonight. We'll start chapter 1 next monday.

TheFireBreathes
01-05-2006, 08:51 PM
Yo tambien

skynes
01-06-2006, 12:17 AM
Next Mon, sounds good to me.

alorian
01-08-2006, 06:14 PM
Monday is tomorrow!!

unshakeable15
01-09-2006, 10:46 PM
i had a though when reading this. Paul says he's not ashamed of the Gospel. i totally agree, when it comes to the Gospel described in the first verses of the chapter. but when it comes to "Gospel" in reference to Christianity and culture and "Christianese" and all that takes away from the very true Gospel.

drumchick101
01-11-2006, 06:28 PM
Ya, I wish I could have seen Paul, I cannot doubt that He had the light of Christ in his eyes. I think the gospel is something that cannot be explained. Yes, it's the good news of Jesus Christ, but how we convey that is not something we can enduce. It is just the light in our eyes, it's making people feel good about themselves, it's about giving what you have to them (as opposed to shoving it down their throat).

Conveying the gospel is something I think about a lot and God is teaching me more everyday. He is teaching me something so different from my original perspective but as I look more at how Jesus Himself did it I see that God really is right (:o shocker!!:o). This is a thing that captures me and it's written all over Romans (and the new testiment), but it's easier said than sone I suppose.

><sarah><

ps. Woo hoo! I'm in kind of time for chapter one, I think I'll pick it up with you guys. I love the book of Romans. I've read it once before & I'd love to read it more in depth this time.

alorian
01-11-2006, 07:00 PM
Romans has got to be my favorite book, and Paul one of my favorite people. Chapter one is riddled with example we should follow.

"Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God."
A servant, an aposlte, separated unto the gospel of God

"By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience, to the faith among all nations, for his name: Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ"
Through Christ we have been given grace and apostleship.

"First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken through-out the whole world"
I get two major things out of this: faith spoken throughout the whole world, is one, obviously. The second is the example. Be thankful to God through Jesus Christ. Be thankful for your fellows.

"For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers; Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you"
God is our witness, whom we should serve with our spirits. Prayer, pray for each other. Reminds me of what we're doing on these boards about lust. Also, it's good to spend time with each other as Christians, and to pray about everything.


I'll post more later :)

skynes
01-13-2006, 06:26 AM
What I love is when he greets Rome and calls them "Beloved of God, called to be Saints"

When Paul uses the word 'Called' he does not mean it as "God is calling you to this, you may or may not reach it"
He means it as "You were called, and you answered. This is what you are, a Called Saint"

So Paul was essentially calling every Christian in Rome a Saint. Same thing with all of us. We are no longer dead in sin, we are Called Saints (no pun intended).

So much in this chapter, trying to think it has boggled my mind. I'll try to get more down later.

alorian
01-13-2006, 02:46 PM
we are Called Saints (no pun intended).


Yeah, riiiiiiiiiiiight

drumchick101
01-13-2006, 10:27 PM
"12I'm eager to encourage you in your faith, but I also want to be encouraged by yours. In this way, each of us will be a blessing to the other."

This opens up the way the church was intended to be. In that, I mean that we were not called to rot in church and feed off of our leaders. In the sense of ministry, we were called to be equals. Paul was emphisizing them as freinds rather than sheep. That's such a beautiful thing.

"21Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. The result was that their minds became dark and confused. 22Claiming to be wise, they became utter fools instead. 23And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people, or birds and animals and snakes."

I don't take this warning lightly. This is just how sin creeps in and you have no idea how it got that bad. To the readers, it seems so redicules that they would do such a thing but like it says, you think you are wise the whole time. What did it start with? They cut off worship, and that gave way to foolish ideas. I don't know about you, but worship is where God sets me straight. When I've screwed up, worship is where I go and He has never failed to meet me there. But what if I were to cut that off?? Then I would continue to think the thoughts I was thinking, these would lead to foolish ideas and then the confusion. Once you are confused it is all over unless God sends a voice of reason & you may not even have the sense to follow it because you can't even see straight. This brings a new light to worship.

The thing is, we were all meant to worship, but I wonder what it was like to worship without struggles. It almost seems like it wouldn't mean as much. Worship means the most to me when I'm all messed up and He so graciously takes my broken peices and makes something of them. Don't get me wrong, I worship whether I'm [extremly] screwed up or not [as extremly screwed up], but I just wonder what it's like to not have to have things to fix.

><sarah><

OTD
01-17-2006, 09:20 AM
I honestly don't think any of us will find that out until we are worshipping in His physical presence. The rest of the chapter ought to be a slap in the face, a wake up call that God isn't going to let it go forever. That if we persist, He's gonna let us have what we've been asking for, and it ain't gonna be pretty. Our rewards will hit both mind and body, in that the results will be both physical and mental.

theelectric3
01-17-2006, 02:36 PM
i love this book.

"Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God."
A servant, an aposlte, separated unto the gospel of God

i love how Christ sets us apart for His work. to share His love. that we have a higher calling than just living life with no purpose. Christ gives us purpose, hope and value... it's a beautiful reality.


"21Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. The result was that their minds became dark and confused. 22Claiming to be wise, they became utter fools instead. 23And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people, or birds and animals and snakes."

these verses sadden me because it shows how foolish we are when we turn to others for direction and guidence other than God. to turn to material possessions to bring fulfillment and value other than God Almighty.

Jesus came so we could have open communication with God. God... the Creator of everything and everyone. so why so we run to creation for answers instead of the Creator?

these verses help me to keep in check. who am i running to for answers? who am i running to value? myself? others? possessions i own (or wish i owned)? or God? if i can't answer that right away, or i am hesitant to say "God"... then i need to prayerfully consider the state of my heart.

"FOr I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believs, for the Jew first and also for the Greek."

couple of things jump out at me in this verse.

1. not ashamed.
webster defines ashamed as - Feeling inferior, inadequate, or embarrassed.

how do we view the gospel of Christ? are we embrarrassed by it? do we feel it is inadequate to meet our needs and/or the needs of those around us?

what is the gospel of Christ?
God is love... and it is Love that gave us the way to find freedom from ourselves. freedom from our faults that haunt us.

2. salvation for everyone who believes.

It is God's will for every man, woman, boy and girl to know Him. it doesn't matter what you have done - or are doing. His love can cover all our mistakes.

and this right here should give us believers boldness to share the gospel. knowing that not one person is excluded from what Jesus did for all of us. (and that also eliminates self-righteousness and pride... God loves us all the same. we all messed up and deserve hell. but He came and showed us a better way.)

and one other thing i will share for now (as i could go on and on and on...)

Romans 1:20-21: For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as Godm not were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened."

i know sarah discussed this a bit, and i addressed what she said... i just wanted to say how God's creation testifies of who He is. God clearly shows His love, beauty and majesty through the Earth, and through people.

God is constantly speaking... are we listening? we are without excuse. He has done everything for us, He is pursuing us in pure, passionate love.

we can't say we didn't know....

drumchick101
01-17-2006, 03:12 PM
^score. ;D

><sarah><

alorian
01-17-2006, 06:50 PM
I shall read and post in the morning.

skynes
01-18-2006, 01:36 AM
Romans 1 "22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. "

This makes me think: Cause --- Effect

Cause: Unbeliever rejecting Christ. Their conscience and world testifies of His existance, they deny it. They are arrogant and think themselves wise.

Effect: God lets them do as they please. They worship false gods, statues and demons. They deny the natural uses for everything and engage in homosexuality, sex with animals and 'casual' sex. They live a life of perversions.

OTD
01-18-2006, 03:53 AM
absolutely NAILED it. I was just as guilty as the next person. Always turning to self help this, self help that. After a series of repeated failures, followed by repeated successes when I finally sought God's help, the message finally got through all the reinforced concrete that is my skull. The hardest thing for anyone to do (especially us guys) is to admit there' something we can't do and that we need help. THAT was one monkey I was very happy to get off my back. The freedom that results is totally unbelieveable. Of course being human, I still manage to stumble, fall, wander off the path. Do what I know I shouldn't, but we'll get to that in a future chapter;):-[

i love this book.



i love how Christ sets us apart for His work. to share His love. that we have a higher calling than just living life with no purpose. Christ gives us purpose, hope and value... it's a beautiful reality.




these verses sadden me because it shows how foolish we are when we turn to others for direction and guidence other than God. to turn to material possessions to bring fulfillment and value other than God Almighty.

Jesus came so we could have open communication with God. God... the Creator of everything and everyone. so why so we run to creation for answers instead of the Creator?

these verses help me to keep in check. who am i running to for answers? who am i running to value? myself? others? possessions i own (or wish i owned)? or God? if i can't answer that right away, or i am hesitant to say "God"... then i need to prayerfully consider the state of my heart.



couple of things jump out at me in this verse.

1. not ashamed.
webster defines ashamed as - Feeling inferior, inadequate, or embarrassed.

how do we view the gospel of Christ? are we embrarrassed by it? do we feel it is inadequate to meet our needs and/or the needs of those around us?

what is the gospel of Christ?
God is love... and it is Love that gave us the way to find freedom from ourselves. freedom from our faults that haunt us.

2. salvation for everyone who believes.

It is God's will for every man, woman, boy and girl to know Him. it doesn't matter what you have done - or are doing. His love can cover all our mistakes.

and this right here should give us believers boldness to share the gospel. knowing that not one person is excluded from what Jesus did for all of us. (and that also eliminates self-righteousness and pride... God loves us all the same. we all messed up and deserve hell. but He came and showed us a better way.)

and one other thing i will share for now (as i could go on and on and on...)



i know sarah discussed this a bit, and i addressed what she said... i just wanted to say how God's creation testifies of who He is. God clearly shows His love, beauty and majesty through the Earth, and through people.

God is constantly speaking... are we listening? we are without excuse. He has done everything for us, He is pursuing us in pure, passionate love.

we can't say we didn't know....

OTD
01-18-2006, 08:15 AM
1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? 4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance? 5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

Part of this was aimed at the Jews in Rome, who were looking down their noses at the Gentile followers because they didn't know the old testament. HOWEVER, it very aptly applies to all of us and reinforces the "let him who is without guilt throw the first stone". Judging the behaviour of others is outside our realm because we are ALL imperfect sinners. We were all there at one point. Hammering on someone ususally only puts them on the defesive.

6God "will give to each person according to what he has done."[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=2&version=31#fen-NIV-27954a)] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.

We are ALL going to get exactly what we deserve. Doesn't matter what race, faith, color or sex. Those who follow Christ and do good will be rewarded. Those who persist in staying away from the Light will also be "rewarded".

drumchick101
01-22-2006, 07:01 PM
For the sake of this not dwindling...chapter 2? May I ablidge:

14For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

This seems to knock out the whole theory of Nihilism. Now, don't think I'm so smart to know what that means on my own. I know it because I bought the cd "No Sir, Nihilism Is Not Practical" by Showbread and I looked up what it meant. It is the theory that morals, and beliefs do not exist. I can assume they say that we are just taught these things, and they are not orginal ideas. There are plenty of disscussions and more extensive detail on the subject for the hill, but for here..I just wanted to say that that jumped out at me when reading this.

I'll dig more later, but I've gatta get some sleep.

><sarah><

alorian
01-22-2006, 07:04 PM
Sounds good :) I will do my best to post tomorrow night :) And my best right now is quite a bit.

theelectric3
01-24-2006, 12:42 PM
some thoughts on Chapter 2.

vs. 11: For there is no partiality with God.

this does away with "God doesn't love me" or "He is like that with you... but you don't know what i've done (or am doing)... God could never love me/forgive me..."

God is not partial to anyone. His love, mercy, longsuffering, patience, wisdom is for everyone equally. it doesn't matter what you have done, what you are doing, your gender does not matter, your race does not distract Him, your upbringing does not turn Him away... He loves you.

there is such joy and peace and security in knowing that.

so many truths ring out in this chapter.

1. do not be so quick to judge someone... especially when you are doing the same.
-for example, do not judge someone who is commiting sexual sin. for the Bible tells us that if we even look at a man or woman with lust in our heart, we have commited the same evil. so instead of bad mouthing them and pointing the finger, pray for them.

2. it is the goodness of God that leads us to repentance. (vs. 4) not the theological debates, not pursuasive conversations... nothing but God's goodness. His mercy, love, compassion, grace, justice... things we do not deserve but He gives freely. that's what draws us to repeant and commit to Him. He sees the hearts of men.... mere words don't cut it. vs. 29, of chatpter 2, shows us how God looks at the hearts. for we can look the part of the christian, but Christ alone sees the hearts and knows whether we are really circumcised to Him - set apart. dedicated to Him. committed.

which ties into 3. doers of the law receive justification. it isn't enough to be able to quote scripture, have good attendance at church or youth group... living out the word of God, living what it says, is where we will find true freedom.

the chapter also talks about the wrath (or judgement) of God. my college group pastor, Josh, made an interesting point this past Sunday. He posed the question that isn't the wrath of God, God simply giving us what we want? follow through with me here...

if someone does not love God, hates God and wants nothing to do with Him... God will eventual give them what they want - separation from God forever. why would God send someone to Heaven if Heaven will be like hell to them? they don't want to spend eternity worshiping God... so the love of God will give the person what they want.

is this because He is mean? no. God, in His love... for He is love, has chosen to limit Himself to our will. He will not force Himself on us.

God's wrath is us rejecting God and God eventually giving us what we want. if i want to do something my way and refuse to listen to God, then He will allow me to have my way. why? so i will learn of my dependence for Him. (this goes into more depth in chapter 8 so i will stop here on that.)
--

two more things i wanted to point out in chapter 2.

vs. 17-24 is a warning to believers (in my point of view). do we preach one thing with our lives and live the opposite? do we tell people not to murder and yet hate our brother or sister? (for to God, these are the same.) do we tell people to put God first in their lives, yet we put ministry/entertainment/materialism/money before God and make them an idol in our own lives? in preaching to others, do we condem ourselves?

vs.24: For "the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you," as it is written. *Paul was quoting Isaiah 52:5 and Ezekiel 36:22*

this scares me. is my life giving unbelievers a platform to blasphem God? to me, this verse should be read by Christians every so often... to keep us in check. when people look at my life, do they glorify God or do they mock God because of my inability to represent Him?

we are called to be amasadors for the Kingdom of God. to represent His Kingdom and walk in His love. do i? i see this verse a plea from Paul to the bride of Christ to get serious about the relationship. no more games.

alorian
01-24-2006, 06:23 PM
Chapter 2:

1-2Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. But we know that the judgement of God is according to truth against those who practice such things.

Don't judge your fellow man, it's inexcusable for you to do so. This reminds me of another verse, in one of the Peters, I believe, or Johns, about the plank in your own eye.. We may judge, but it's unlikely we'll have all the facts. God knows the whole truth. Let him worry about that.

3-4 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgement of God? Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentence?

We all sin, do you think you'll escape judgement? Don't judge others for what they do, for everyone is a sinner. What God allows you to go through will lead you to where you need to be- repentence.


5-10But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgement of God, who "will render to each one according to his deeds": eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness-indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Healthy chunk there. Don't let your heart be hard. The word impenitent means not being sorry for your sins, not being humble. Seek God, seek righteousness. Don't be self-seeking, be selfless. To not seek righteousness is folly.

Sorry, my mind is full. I'll finish the chapter later.

skynes
01-25-2006, 12:30 AM
-for example, do not judge someone who is commiting sexual sin. for the Bible tells us that if we even look at a man or woman with lust in our heart, we have commited the same evil. so instead of bad mouthing them and pointing the finger, pray for them.

I have something to add on this, slightly off topic of Romans.

Be careful with what you say. If you point the finger at them for doing something, be careful you do not fall into the same trap they did. Your words will echo in your ear when you succumb to the same temptation.

Take heed he who thinks he stands, lest he fall.

OTD
01-25-2006, 08:14 AM
this scares me. is my life giving unbelievers a platform to blasphem God? to me, this verse should be read by Christians every so often... to keep us in check. when people look at my life, do they glorify God or do they mock God because of my inability to represent Him?

What a wake up call. Talk about a conviction. Now that I sit and think about this, I'm just so sick at what I've done...my temper...language...actions...or lack of..

One of the things that always stuck in my head was to let your actions be your words. Let them do the talking. Boy...I don't think I like some of the things my actions have been saying...:-[

skynes
01-26-2006, 12:39 AM
The first step toward Godly actions, admitting your current actions suck.

OTD
01-31-2006, 09:12 AM
To expand a bit on what Seth wrote...I sat and thought about what Jesus said "Let him who is without guilt throw the first stone". In the past, recent past, I've caught myself "looking down my nose" at someone committing sexual sin, only to realize that not only have I done the same, therefore had NO right to judge them, but..and here's the part where the light bulb went on...

Jesus didn't say "let him who hasn't committed adultery throw the first stone..." He said WITHOUT SIN...ANY SIN. That pretty much throws a bucket of water on everyone's birthday cake. There isn't ONE of us who hasn't sinned in any area. There isn't one of us who has the right to look down at anyone because of their sins, their actions.

boy..sometimes I seriously need to clone myself so I can kick my own butt.

weebird20
02-01-2006, 03:26 AM
hey Scott2....i like that..yes indeedy...very insightful...thanks for sharing :)

disciple
02-01-2006, 12:58 PM
boy..sometimes I seriously need to clone myself so I can kick my own butt.
I did that! He hurt me so badly... ::] ;) :P

Romans is one of the more insightful books in there. I don't "study" it as often as I medatate on it.

alorian
06-06-2006, 12:30 AM
Romans 3
God’s Judgment Defended

1 What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? 2 Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written:

“ That You may be justified in Your words,
And may overcome when You are judged.”[a]

5 But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.) 6 Certainly not! For then how will God judge the world?
7 For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? 8 And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just.

All Have Sinned

9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written:


“ There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”[b]
13 “ Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;[c]

“ The poison of asps is under their lips”;[d]
14 “ Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”[e]
15 “ Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known.”[f]
18 “ There is no fear of God before their eyes.”[g]

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

God’s Righteousness Through Faith

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[h] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Boasting Excluded

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.