Isildur9473
01-04-2006, 04:24 PM
Clicky (http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/01/04/turkey.birdflu.ap/index.html)

So, I've been watching out for stories about the Bird Flu, and this came up. They keep talking about how bad it could be, and I do believe them, just like the Pandemic in World War 1, this could get real bad.

The question is, how does God relate? Does he drop viruses like this onto the world? For what reason?

Well, I know he doesn't kill people for kicks, I guess the real question is, where do viruses and things like this come from? Sin?

kittygirl
01-04-2006, 05:00 PM
Well, God allows Satan to drop viruses into the world, and I'm not exactly sure why in this case. ButI was reading Job the other day, and God allowed Satan to place boils all over Job.

But in this case, I'm not so sure what, or if He's trying to teach us something.

In any way, I'm going to trust Him, because I don't get sick (I am no longer under the curse), and nothing can really hurt me. Of course, if you did something stupis, like touching a hot oven, and wonder why you get burned, then that's just common sense.

But as far as sickness goes, nothing.

disciple
01-04-2006, 05:03 PM
In Job's case, God allowed Satan to do so in order to prove Job's righteousness. Satan thought that Job would do as many people do nowadays and curse God's name and whatnot just because of earthly tribulation, and I'm sure he enjoyed torturing someone along the way.

terrasin
01-04-2006, 06:03 PM
Umm, I refuse to believe for one second that Satan drops viruses onto the world. This is where faith gets a little silly sometimes where Satan is suddenly responsible for everything that is "not good" with the world.

As for the virus itself, the more I hear about it, the more I worry that if it does start transfering from human to human, that we are going to be in a world of hurt for quite sometime. I was listening to a radio show a while back that was discussing the idea that Bush had to start using the army to quarantine whole cities and states if there is an outbreak. I personally believe the need for that would be big whether some are infected or not because anyone trying to flee an area that has this in it COULD have it and spread it further. I've actually been stocking supplies for a "just incase" situation. Better to be prepared than not.

As far as where God fits in, it's like everything else. It all goes back to the "why does God let this happen?" We asked the same thing for 9/11, The World Wars, the Plagues, etc etc etc through a long list of things throughout history. And you know what? I don't have a strait answer. Some things happen because we have the choice and free will to do so. You could ask the same question as "why would God want us to suffer with a cold?" He obviously doesn't want us to suffer either.

CJ

timmyrotter
01-04-2006, 06:43 PM
honestly, where did this "bird flu" go? i havent heard anything about it for awhile... and i read the parer alot and watch the news... and our government is spending bunches of money on it, when i should be used to stop illegal immigration... but thats another subject.

panhead04
01-04-2006, 06:59 PM
illegal immigration is nothing compared to what the bird flu could becom. if starts transferring from human to human we could be virtually wiped out if we didnt have a cure for it. that is why so much money is being spent on finding a cure. if it does start spreading, people in their teens to people in their thirties are most suseptible (sp?). what im mostly trying to say is illegal immigration is definitly not above finding a cure for this.

aliengurl7
01-04-2006, 07:07 PM
I think its all a bunch of hype that the media is feeding the people. It has nothing to do with God, I think its just like the flu or any other virus. It is deadly, but who's not to say it isn't a man made virus? Also, he's not the one to blame, the chicken's are. :)

disciple
01-04-2006, 07:09 PM
I think its all a bunch of hype that the media is feeding the people. It has nothing to do with God, I think its just like the flu or any other virus. It is deadly, but who's not to say it isn't a man made virus? Also, he's not the one to blame, the chicken's are. :)
His question relating to God was legitimate, pertaining to why God would let it happen.

aliengurl7
01-04-2006, 07:11 PM
"Does he drop viruses like this onto the world? For what reason?"

I just said I don't think God has anything to do with this.

Isildur9473
01-04-2006, 07:27 PM
"Does he drop viruses like this onto the world? For what reason?"

I just said I don't think God has anything to do with this.

God is the maker of all, he's omnipotent, he knows all. If any one person/Diety had anything to do with viruses, it would be God.

honestly, where did this "bird flu" go? i havent heard anything about it for awhile... and i read the parer alot and watch the news... and our government is spending bunches of money on it, when i should be used to stop illegal immigration... but thats another subject.

I read the news everyday, and almost everday there's mention of it. It might be the next pandemic. That's more important than stopping illegal immigration (although I agree it should be stopped).

aliengurl7
01-04-2006, 07:35 PM
Everything in this world is a direct result of our disobience in choosing to obey satan rather than God. We chose to go this route apart from God. So any disease or plauge is more related to our curse for sinning in the Garden Of Eden.

terrasin
01-04-2006, 07:52 PM
The government is trying to come up for a cure to a virus that would end with a much higher rate of fatalities than the black plague (Over 25 million people were killed by the black plague). So they are trying to come up with something to stop it before it starts spreading from humans so there is a defence against it when and if it does.

CJ

NightCrawler
01-04-2006, 08:12 PM
Umm, I refuse to believe for one second that Satan drops viruses onto the world. This is where faith gets a little silly sometimes where Satan is suddenly responsible for everything that is "not good" with the world.

CJAmen.

The government is trying to come up for a cure to a virus that would end with a much higher rate of fatalities than the black plague (Over 25 million people were killed by the black plague). So they are trying to come up with something to stop it before it starts spreading from humans so there is a defence against it when and if it does.

CJHow does a scientist/cure-maker-dude make a defense for something that doesn't exist? ... If the flu virus mutates, THEN we can make a defense for it, right? But until then, we just wait. Right?

Spiffles
01-04-2006, 08:31 PM
it does already exsist.. and people in some of the poor asia pacific countries have already died from it...

NightCrawler
01-04-2006, 08:35 PM
it does already exsist.. and people in some of the poor asia pacific countries have already died from it...
What?!... Maybe I'm behind the times.

NightCrawler
01-04-2006, 08:36 PM
haha... the link... wow... that explains why I am behind the times.

Isildur9473
01-04-2006, 08:37 PM
What?!... Maybe I'm behind the times.

www.cnn.com FTW

NightCrawler
01-04-2006, 08:42 PM
www.cnn.com (http://www.cnn.com/) FTWMinute late.

unshakeable15
01-04-2006, 09:08 PM
i don't understand it completely either, but i think part of it has to do with the fact that at the same time that God has complete control over the universe, from the largest galaxy to the smallest nano-particle, He doesn't always exert His control over it. it's as if He's the driver of a horse-drawn carriage. He has the reigns to steer where He wants, but generally He lets the horses lead themselves.

just because you can control the entire house with one remote control doesn't mean you are always using it. God doesn't always exert His control. why He does at some junctions (like preserving select individuals during the Holocaust) and not at others (like allowing the bird flu to grow and infect humans), i don't know. i don't know if anyonc can answer that.

terrasin
01-04-2006, 09:10 PM
That's outside asia too. There have been several inside asia who died from it. It's not mutated yet to go from human to human. I think it's only a matter of time though...

CJ

NightCrawler
01-04-2006, 09:23 PM
That's outside asia too. There have been several inside asia who died from it. It's not mutated yet to go from human to human. I think it's only a matter of time though...

CJThat kinda scares me.... :-\

Mr. Xcitement
01-04-2006, 11:05 PM
Actually, after reading the article it says that they "think" the bird flu may have gone from human to human in some cases, but aren't sure yet and are looking into it. Also, not sure about the bird flu, but the reason there are so many flus out there, is our fault. We have never made a cure for any strand of flu, we have made antibodies, and a virus, after a while, will become imune to that antibody, and the bird flu, I believe is the new one that is imune to all antibodies we have. I was reading a magazine that showed that if someone got infected in say texas with a human to human strand, just in a matter of I think it was 20 weeks or so, the whole country would be infected. This is a very serious problem, worse than the black plague, possibely, and we should all pray about it.

terrasin
01-04-2006, 11:22 PM
I have been working on stocking up an emergency supply if something ever happens that I plan to cycle through every 2 years to keep things fresh. I want to get to a point where I have 3 months of supplies comfortably, 6 if I rationed it properly. Lots of water, nonperishables, and canned goods along with any first aid stuff, candles, waterproof matches, etc. Looking into a way that I can cook food without electricity or gas. Will probably get a crate of Chafing Fuel or something like that. Also, going against my dislike for the need, I will also be stocking shells for my shotgun.

All of it seems a bit extreme, but you never know exactly what can happen and when. For instance, last winter we had that huge ice storm and lost power for 6 days. We had to move all the food from the fridge outside to keep cold or we would have lost it. Had it been summer, we would have been in a bit of a mess because we would have lost all the food to spoilage. The stores had no power either so everything was closed up. Good thing we also have a gas cooking range. ;)

CJ

skynes
01-05-2006, 01:41 AM
I think human stupidity is responsible for a lot of the diseases we have today.

All these vaccinations, cures and medicines and we're not much better off than we were hundreds of years ago.

Yay, we killed TB, Meningitis and Mumps.

Oops we now have AIDs, Cancer and Bird Flu.

No sooner do we get rid of one major killer disease than another one sprouts up. And I would not be surprised in the slightest if it was some of the junk going on market doing it.

How long was cocaine used in coca-cola before they knew it was addictive/dangerous?

How long was REAL lead used in pencils n stuff, before they learnt it was poisonous?

How long was asbestos used before they learnt of it?

In 20 years we'll probably find that a chemical used in hair-spray is responsible for a brand new disease that kills millions.
And that an artificial ingredient put into food as a replacement for a cancerous food colouring is now even deadlier.

-------------

Greg Satan is a perverter. God created bacteria, but Satan can pervert it to whatever he wants it to do. No I'm not blaming him for bird flu, but I'm saying he is capable of making it.

-------------

Not long ago the UK freaked out over a parrot which 'confirmed to have died from the bird flu'. Few months later they find it didn't die at all.


Sometimes I wonder about how truthful the stories we're told are. If these things we're told aren't just another 'millenium bug' hoax.

...And no this is not a reason for one of you to turn on me, tell me how stupid I am, accuse me of not believing it exists and throwing a bunch of links at me to prove it does.

TheFireBreathes
01-05-2006, 09:57 AM
[QUOTE=Isildur9473]Clicky (http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/01/04/turkey.birdflu.ap/index.html)

So, I've been watching out for stories about the Bird Flu, and this came up. They keep talking about how bad it could be, and I do believe them, just like the Pandemic in World War 1, this could get real bad.
QUOTE]

Nah, I dont think this is as big as everyone is hyped up about. Since right now its only animal to amimal or whatever, this gives scientists and extra head start to research and stop it before it would reach us.

Mr. Xcitement
01-05-2006, 12:14 PM
Problem with that, yeah we have the heads up, but we don't know when it could mutate. It could do it any day, or it might not do it for a year, and as of right now we have no clue how to stop it, so we don't have much to do, so having a heads up, only helps if it doesn't mutate for a long time.

Also, AIDS, Bird Flu, and Cancer are not related to those other diseases, if we didn't destroy those other diseases, then we would have all of them right now.

Also, I must correct myself, I meant Antibiotics, not sure exactly, but I know Antibodies and Antibiotics are different. We need to learn to try and get through diseases without using antibiotics, because doing so, we are strengthening diseases. Such as Mercia, if you don't know what it is, it is a antibiotic resistant bacteria, if you get it, you have it for the rest of your life, you can fight it with high, high doses of antibiotics, and you can kill most of it, but it will never leave your system. Although science has helped us a lot, it has also created super bugs that are imune to just about anything we can throw at them.

viciousvelvet
01-05-2006, 01:04 PM
I think both God and Satan drop viruses on the world. But bacteria reproduces and thrives on its own.

disciple
01-05-2006, 01:58 PM
I have been working on stocking up an emergency supply if something ever happens that I plan to cycle through every 2 years to keep things fresh. I want to get to a point where I have 3 months of supplies comfortably, 6 if I rationed it properly. Lots of water, nonperishables, and canned goods along with any first aid stuff, candles, waterproof matches, etc. Looking into a way that I can cook food without electricity or gas. Will probably get a crate of Chafing Fuel or something like that. Also, going against my dislike for the need, I will also be stocking shells for my shotgun.

All of it seems a bit extreme, but you never know exactly what can happen and when. For instance, last winter we had that huge ice storm and lost power for 6 days. We had to move all the food from the fridge outside to keep cold or we would have lost it. Had it been summer, we would have been in a bit of a mess because we would have lost all the food to spoilage. The stores had no power either so everything was closed up. Good thing we also have a gas cooking range. ;)

CJ
We have some canned food nobody in this house would eat in their right mind unless it was an emergency :) that counts, right? ;)

You're making me paranoid about disease and illness again. :P

Also, keep the shotgun away from me... it'd be a bad thing if a powerful weapon fell in my hands. ::]

Okay, seriously, I'm not going to worry about it, but I will keep my eye on the story, because I... *shudder* I don't like illnesses and disease, I used to be critically paranoid about them. ::]

As far as God's hand in disease, I'll agree with Scottie B'fast on this one.

TheFireBreathes
01-05-2006, 08:43 PM
Also, going against my dislike for the need, I will also be stocking shells for my shotgun.

CJ

Reminds me of the movie 28 Days Later.

terrasin
01-05-2006, 11:11 PM
Reminds me of the movie 28 Days Later.
Above all, I will protect my family. In the case of that type of emergency, I would most certainly have means of protection and a hope that I wouldn't have to use it. But if someone was coming in looking to harm them or take our supplies (which in the case of a quarantine, it would be death not to have food and water), I would use force without thinking twice.

CJ

Mr. Xcitement
01-05-2006, 11:23 PM
Above all, I will protect my family. In the case of that type of emergency, I would most certainly have means of protection and a hope that I wouldn't have to use it. But if someone was coming in looking to harm them or take our supplies (which in the case of a quarantine, it would be death not to have food and water), I would use force without thinking twice.

CJ

I do completely understand your view, but I feel, as hard as it might be, God would probably want you to give to the needy, and help the helpless, but if the person is approaching your house and has a weapon in the intent of getting the food by force, then I would definitely agree with you.

terrasin
01-06-2006, 12:37 AM
Heh, if the birdflu does become as bad as they say, CJ won't be leaving his house for a few months so the needy will be needy somewhere else. :P My family comes first in my list of priorities.

CJ

Isildur9473
01-06-2006, 08:35 AM
Well, a 3rd person in Turkey died from it. :\

Clicky (http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/01/06/turkey.birdflu/index.html)

terrasin
01-06-2006, 09:46 AM
Died from the turkey. :( </bad pun>

this sucks, I like chicken and turkey

CJ

timmyrotter
01-06-2006, 12:30 PM
i hate how america has become this retarded place where we believe everything people tell us... worrying doesnt do any good, and if there arent any scientists in here, there is nothing we can do about it but pray...

Isildur9473
01-06-2006, 01:41 PM
i hate how america has become this retarded place where we believe everything people tell us... worrying doesnt do any good, and if there arent any scientists in here, there is nothing we can do about it but pray...

Talking about things helps as well. Better to be with it than ignorant.

terrasin
01-06-2006, 06:24 PM
i hate how america has become this retarded place where we believe everything people tell us... worrying doesnt do any good, and if there arent any scientists in here, there is nothing we can do about it but pray...
You need to read about some of the past plagues and how what happened. If this does mutate, it will be the worst tragedy to hit this world... ever. So pray that scientists figure out cures or a way to stop it before it has the chance to mutate.

CJ

Mr. Xcitement
01-06-2006, 07:59 PM
i hate how america has become this retarded place where we believe everything people tell us... worrying doesnt do any good, and if there arent any scientists in here, there is nothing we can do about it but pray...

It also doesn't help to take such a negative approach to it like this. We do need to pray, mote than anything, but it is good to understand and know where the disease is spreading to. What we have said about this disease is true, it would be an ignorant practice to say that everything on the news, radio and papers is a lie.

timmyrotter
01-06-2006, 10:47 PM
we only know what they tell us... think about it, its proably a lot of media hype. we are so blinded by all of it!

Isildur9473
01-06-2006, 10:55 PM
we only know what they tell us... think about it, its proably a lot of media hype. we are so blinded by all of it!

Or it's not and you're not really thinking. What does the media have to gain by telling us that there's threat of a virus that could be huge?

Let me guess, you're one of those people that thinks that every media source that isn't Christian is liberal, hence evil correct?

timmyrotter
01-07-2006, 09:50 AM
dude the media has a huge (too much) influence on people today.(i dont think that can be argued) and we know its not of God, so it cant really be that great now can it?

Isildur9473
01-07-2006, 10:00 AM
dude the media has a huge (too much) influence on people today.(i dont think that can be argued) and we know its not of God, so it cant really be that great now can it?

The media isn't the absolute best, it could be better. However, they still relay news, and they do a fairly good job of it, (Unless it's Fox News, or certain local Newspapers).

timmyrotter
01-07-2006, 01:12 PM
why not fox? cause its not so liberal?

disciple
01-07-2006, 01:15 PM
why not fox? cause its not so liberal?
I don't know what that was supposed to mean, but I do know that Fox News isn't what I rely on for news.

Isildur9473
01-07-2006, 01:19 PM
why not fox? cause its not so liberal?

No, because they're trashy journalists, unlike CNN.

I have an idea. I'll continue to watch the news, and know what's going on, and you continue to not watch, and keep asking what's going on in the world. Believe it or not, not all secular institutions are pure evil.

timmyrotter
01-07-2006, 01:37 PM
dude you dont even know me, dont go saying "continue to not watch the news" for your info, i watch the news so much that i get made fun of for it (by my friends who arent very bright). and i spend another hour during school reading the paper(boring period). so im not some uninformed idiot( the idiot part could be argued) but fox happens to be my favorite! cause they seem to be less biased in comparison, and less liberal.

Isildur9473
01-07-2006, 01:39 PM
dude you dont even know me, dont go saying "continue to not watch the news" for your info, i watch the news so much that i get made fun of for it (by my friends who arent very bright). and i spend another hour during school reading the paper(boring period). so im not some uninformed idiot( the idiot part could be argued) but fox happens to be my favorite! cause they seem to be less biased in comparison, and less liberal.

Ahh, ok. I did make a horrible mistake, sorry. Fox News, they all seem like idiots though. CNN has better anchors/layout/stories most of the time.

disciple
01-07-2006, 01:41 PM
I don't like watching Headline News (though sometimes I am forced to do so) because their anchors and crew goof up a lot, and sometimes they'll have a story I want to hear, and they'll say "After the next break" but I won't hear it until three hours later, and it'll be a few murmured words.

Anyways, back on subject...

unshakeable15
01-07-2006, 01:53 PM
Also, not sure about the bird flu, but the reason there are so many flus out there, is our fault. We have never made a cure for any strand of flu, we have made antibodies, and a virus, after a while, will become imune to that antibody, and the bird flu, I believe is the new one that is imune to all antibodies we have.
the problem is not in the antibiotics, it's in the fact that influenza is a virus. bacteria we can beat, but viruses we, as yet, have no means of killing. which is why HIV/AIDS patients all die. we can extend their life through drug cocktails (mixtures of drugs, constantly changing so the virus doesn't become overly immune to one mixture), but we cannot, as yet, destroy the virus. at least, not with drugs. our bodies are the only thing that has been successful, and even then it doesn't work on all viruses (as we see with this bird flu).

so, yes, viruses are becoming more and more immune to the antibiotics in circulation (that is, the common ones), but they are not the reason for so many flu viruses around. it's just that as of right now, this instant, there is no other way to fight a virus than through antibiotics.

TheFireBreathes
01-07-2006, 04:11 PM
The media isn't the absolute best, it could be better. However, they still relay news, and they do a fairly good job of it, (Unless it's Fox News, or certain local Newspapers).


Really see I think fox news is one of the better stations. I was glad when I turned on fox a few weeks ago to see a big story on positive things that has happend in Iraq. Its just me though...

Mr. Xcitement
01-07-2006, 05:41 PM
Sorry, I looked it up and you are right, the flu has always had many different strainds, and was not caused by antibiotics. Also, on the side note on here, I mainly only watch Fox news, since from my experience, it is the least biased news station. I would not watch ABC, because as of lately they have been extremely biased, and I really don't care for CNN, don't really like their anchors and they seem to be focused on the negative in Iraq all the time while Fox seems to be the only one to show the positive. Back on subject, yes there is a lot of media hype on the bird flu, but I feel it has a good, solid reason to have it with how bad it could be, but then again if we are talking about something like this, maybe we should have another thread on the weather, since that is predicted to be worst than this year.

NightCrawler
01-07-2006, 06:30 PM
Well... you can't kill the virus yet... but how can you prevent it? We all know, or least have a good idea, on how to prevent AIDS/HIV.... But a flu?

unshakeable15
01-07-2006, 06:37 PM
you prevent the flu the same way you prevent HIV/AIDS, non-infection.

while HIV/AIDS is easier in that regard (safe sex, careful with needles and around unknown blood), it's the same principle.

listen to the advice your mom gave you. :) wash your hands. a lot! with airborne, it's either lock yourself inside an airtight home (which isn't healthy either) or wear masks like the Japanese did early last year.

NightCrawler
01-07-2006, 06:41 PM
you prevent the flu the same way you prevent HIV/AIDS, non-infection.

while HIV/AIDS is easier in that regard (safe sex, careful with needles and around unknown blood), it's the same principle.

listen to the advice your mom gave you. :) wash your hands. a lot! with airborne, it's either lock yourself inside an airtight home (which isn't healthy either) or wear masks like the Japanese did early last year.
Obviously about the AIDS/HIV...

But your answers to my question... are undeniable unpractical. We gotta figure out a better way. Or ways.

disciple
01-07-2006, 06:44 PM
Believe it or not, the best way to fight any type of illness is to eat healthy and be hygenic, AND sleep at good hours for at least 8 hours, but most teenagers nowadays don't wanna believe that. ::]

Spiffles
01-07-2006, 06:50 PM
drink coke!!!! its meant to be able to disolve a steak, so if you drink it, it will kill off all the badness viruses :D and it wont harm you since its God's Holy divine drink!!!! :D

unshakeable15
01-07-2006, 06:52 PM
Believe it or not, the best way to fight any type of illness is to eat healthy and be hygenic, AND sleep at good hours for at least 8 hours, but most teenagers nowadays don't wanna believe that. ::]
true. but that's the best way to fight off initial infection. i was talking about how to prevent infection in the first place. :) but point still valid.

NightCrawler
01-07-2006, 06:55 PM
Disciple:
Maybe they believe it, but don't care ;D

terrasin
01-07-2006, 07:11 PM
Believe it or not, the best way to fight any type of illness is to eat healthy and be hygenic, AND sleep at good hours for at least 8 hours, but most teenagers nowadays don't wanna believe that. ::]
That might be true in most cases for illness, but with something like this, it's a whole different ballgame. We don't know yet whether a persons health state will define whether or not their body would reject it, but I tend to think that this will become more like a plague if it transfers human to human. We just have to wait and see, I guess.

CJ

disciple
01-07-2006, 07:15 PM
I know, I was just being Mr. Obvious. :P

relientkguy
01-07-2006, 07:42 PM
Hmm... does anybody else remember SARS? It was supposed to be this huge deal, and then what happened? Nothing too serious. I think this might just be more of the media playing on our fear to keep their ratings high... but I'm not saying don't be prepaired, just don't obsess too much about it, and don't be afraid to go outside.

Mr. Xcitement
01-08-2006, 12:29 PM
Hmm... does anybody else remember SARS? It was supposed to be this huge deal, and then what happened? Nothing too serious. I think this might just be more of the media playing on our fear to keep their ratings high... but I'm not saying don't be prepaired, just don't obsess too much about it, and don't be afraid to go outside.

If I remember correctly, it did kill a lot of people, so it was kind of a big thing, just never really left China from what I remember. The bird flu moves, since well, birds migrate, and thus bring the bird flu to other regions.

terrasin
01-08-2006, 04:43 PM
Plus, look at what they had to do to prevent spreading it. You couldn't even leave your house without wearing a face mask. :\

CJ

Spiffles
01-08-2006, 05:45 PM
sars WAS a big thing... it was throuhout the whole asia pacific region.. we had a couple cases of it in Australia, but we where lucky enough to have the medicine available to help those people that the poorer countrys dont have..

Spiffles
01-08-2006, 05:50 PM
And the bird flu strikes again.. this time in Turkey...

http://au.news.yahoo.com/060108/19/xi0v.html