Isildur9473
01-06-2006, 08:30 AM
So, Ariel Sharone had a stroke, and after 3 different surgeries he's still in critical condition, who knows if he'll live or not?

Clicky (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/05/robertson.sharon/index.html)

Anyways... Am I the only one that thinks that this guy is an idiot?

Crash N Burn
01-07-2006, 01:09 PM
i think that he is already dead and that they are keeping him "alive' long enough so that they have a new ruler when he "dies"

disciple
01-07-2006, 01:10 PM
I don't know much on Sharon.

I heard some stuff on the news, like he's already had a few brain surgeries.

unshakeable15
01-07-2006, 01:35 PM
Pat Robertson is one of those ultra-conservatives that people point to and say "this is why i don't follow Jesus." it's sad, really.

i don't think they are keeping Sharon alive because there's really no point. he appointed a deputy just recently that has taken over what he can no longer do. the leadership hand-off is pretty smooth.

Isildur9473
01-07-2006, 01:40 PM
Sharon had a massive stroke though, I've heard most likely he's going to be brain dead, or close to it.

timmyrotter
01-07-2006, 01:53 PM
yeah chances are slim to nothing that he will return as president...

unshakeable15
01-07-2006, 01:59 PM
very true. i would be highly surprised if he did return as Prime Minister (not president).

disciple
01-07-2006, 02:02 PM
Mike, I would be VERY surprised if he returned as president. :D

Isildur9473
01-07-2006, 02:20 PM
Mike, I would be VERY surprised if he returned as president. :D

I would be more surprised if Bono from U2 returned as President.

Anyways, think they'll pull a Schaivo on him?

disciple
01-07-2006, 02:28 PM
I would be more surprised if Bono from U2 returned as President.

As would I, as would I.

riz
01-07-2006, 09:25 PM
I can't stand Pat Robertson. At all. I can't believe he said something like this.

Actually, I can.

Isildur9473
01-07-2006, 09:26 PM
I can't stand Pat Robertson. At all. I can't believe he said something like this.

Actually, I can.

lol. All those TV Evangelists are the same..

disciple
01-07-2006, 09:28 PM
He's been doing a lot of that in recent weeks; it's growing more tiresome.

as~i~lay~dying
01-08-2006, 02:51 PM
So...whats wront witth he Sharon guy~~I think I'm confuzed =(

timmyrotter
01-08-2006, 04:38 PM
he is gonna die! brain hemorage...

NightCrawler
01-08-2006, 06:20 PM
So...whats wront witth he Sharon guy~~I think I'm confuzed =(
Watch the news?

as~i~lay~dying
01-09-2006, 07:21 AM
nope! I dont~~

drumchick101
01-09-2006, 11:48 AM
*sigh* Pat Robertson strikes again. I'm beginning to just ignore that guy.

Anyways, the prime minister of Isreal had a severe stroke and they think he won't make it (hense 'trotter's "brain hemorage")

><sarah><

Mr. Xcitement
01-09-2006, 12:43 PM
hmm, last I heard which was...yesterday I think, they said that Sharon is starting to pull through, but they don't think he'll be able to resume as President, but they did believe he'd live...or I'm getting it mixed up with the guy from the mines, I dunno.

NightCrawler
01-09-2006, 05:53 PM
hmm, last I heard which was...yesterday I think, they said that Sharon is starting to pull through, but they don't think he'll be able to resume as President, but they did believe he'd live...or I'm getting it mixed up with the guy from the mines, I dunno.
I don't think he will get to be president, personally.


Didn't we already have this problem? :P

disciple
01-09-2006, 05:55 PM
Didn't we already have this problem? :P
Yes, I don't imagine him being president, ever. However, it's easier to imagine him as Prime Minister. :P

amodman
01-09-2006, 06:37 PM
I would be more surprised if Bono from U2 returned as President.


Actually, I'd be less surprised. But anyway, back to topic.

Also, yes, I agree Robertson's statements sounded ridiculous when one reads the context of the story (though I don't know enough to really judge), but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss every "crazy christian public statement" a religious leader has to say as more Robertson talk. Roberston is going on a downward trend, it seems, that is only making the public more and more biased and "humanitarian" against his beliefs. The longer he makes these comments, the less likely in the future a real statement publicly made will be regarded as anything more than more hardcore Conservative Christian garbage :-\.

alorian
01-09-2006, 06:44 PM
Ehat what's his name is acting in his stead, and will run things the way Sharon would have.

amodman
01-09-2006, 06:49 PM
Ehat what's his name is acting in his stead, and will run things the way Sharon would have.

God must be getting pretty incompetent these days, huh? Apparently used up all his smiting power for the day, hah! ::]

theelectric3
01-09-2006, 11:12 PM
the biggest thing i have against Sharon was him giving away some land that belongs to Israel.

animeraven34
01-10-2006, 01:24 PM
Oh jeez. ::] I think if God would smite anyone these days it would be Pat Robertson. I honestly wonder why anyone pays any attention to him anymore.

Isildur9473
01-10-2006, 02:24 PM
Oh jeez. ::] I think if God would smite anyone these days it would be Pat Robertson. I honestly wonder why anyone pays any attention to him anymore.

It's kind of funny... :)

lamb_servant72
01-10-2006, 03:28 PM
But, isn't that what Robertson said? That God's grace has lifted on Sharon being Prime Minister because Sharon gave up the Gaza Strip? Or, did Robertson say something else?

amodman
01-10-2006, 05:45 PM
But, isn't that what Robertson said? That God's grace has lifted on Sharon being Prime Minister because Sharon gave up the Gaza Strip? Or, did Robertson say something else?

Robertson said God smote Sharon specifically for trying to give up part of the Gaza strip. Look at Alorian and I's last two comments for a wonderful misnomer this situation apparently makes ;).

lamb_servant72
01-13-2006, 05:19 AM
I feel like your basing that on assumptions.

Did you guys hear or read about Robertson's apology?

Spiffles
01-13-2006, 12:41 PM
I duuno what thoos Robenson guy said.. i dont care too much to hear it either, he sounds like a wally.

But, I doubt God "smot" Airiel Sharon. God donest go around smoting people anyomre. However God may have lifted his presence and therefore protection from his life, which would have allowed the devil to come in and attack...

lamb_servant72
01-13-2006, 12:51 PM
God donest go around smoting people anyomre.

Since when?



However God may have lifted his presence and therefore protection from his life, which would have allowed the devil to come in and attack...

Yes, I could see that.

amodman
01-13-2006, 12:59 PM
God donest go around smoting people anyomre.

Exactly part of the kind of thinking I was afraid of. Why, exactly, would God not smite anyone anymore? Does that mean he used to but decided it that since people don't like that kind of thing from him anymore he doesn't? This kind of thinking makes no sense whatsoever.

I highly doubt anyone in the Bible you read of who was said to be killed by God was known to have been so by anyone other than the prophet writing the book. They could have had any number of health reasons which "did them in" that seemed perfectly reasonable, or the armies of God just happen to be really good in battle. That is how things might have appeared to any outside observer. The fact of the matter is, God told whatever prophet that he, by his power, caused whatever it was that lead to the destruction of any people/places "smited" by him. Then which the prophet discreetly recorded it in his account of history.

I hate this notion that so many Christians have that smiting was some supernatural striking down of whoever was causing evil at the time and the people rejoiced, but because of Jesus and God's love to all that doesn't happen anymore. Guess what folks, God's always loved everyone, this isn't anything new. Neither is him causing the death of someone anything barbaric and ancient.

In this case, I already stated I don't trust Pat Robertson's opinion on the subject. In fact, the falseness of Pat Robertson scares me because it encourages the notion that such a thing simply can't happen and that Christians who believe so are simply crazies.

Legacy
01-13-2006, 01:42 PM
Thank you for that post...nicely put.


That's one of the things that so many people like to do, they (people in general, I'm not attacking you Spiffles) like to think God has changed to soeone that won't hurt us...but really, God is unchanging and the second he does change is the second every promise he has made us cannot be trusted anymore.


In no way am I saying Robertson is right...but it is a definate possibility.

All through the OT (I'm thinking Ezekiel...I'll have to check for sure though) God says he will defend his land (Israel), so since Sharon wanted to divide God's land...


Again...I'm not agreeing with what Robertson said...I'm just saying to keep an open mind of the power of God.

lamb_servant72
01-13-2006, 01:49 PM
I would just say, "Ditto", but then my post would be too short.

bob
01-13-2006, 02:17 PM
Aren't old people allowed to get sick anymore? That's my only question, no one was saying that God was smiting Arafat when he was sick.

Legacy
01-13-2006, 02:28 PM
I was just saying that even thought Robertson may have been out of line with his statement, God can and will still 'smite' people...I didn't say that Sharon was being smote.


I have never said smite or smote before...ever lol

lamb_servant72
01-13-2006, 02:48 PM
You crack me up.

Spiffles
01-13-2006, 04:13 PM
Exactly part of the kind of thinking I was afraid of. Why, exactly, would God not smite anyone anymore? Does that mean he used to but decided it that since people don't like that kind of thing from him anymore he doesn't? This kind of thinking makes no sense whatsoever.

1: people never liked being smot.. so nothing has changed..not that i mentioend what people like anyways .
God has no reason to smot anyone. If God had a reason he may.. I NEVER said God wouldnt do any more smoting.. I just said he doesnt anymore. he still could, he just has no reason..
This whole thing of God smoting people is what scares me.. I hear it WAY too much... God smot America with 9/11, and with the hurricane, and whatever else is happening.. *rolleyes*
God doesnt go around smoting people all the time, because he has no reason too




I hate this notion that so many Christians have that smiting was some supernatural striking down of whoever was causing evil at the time and the people rejoiced, but because of Jesus and God's love to all that doesn't happen anymore. Guess what folks, God's always loved everyone, this isn't anything new. Neither is him causing the death of someone anything barbaric and ancient.

If you hate that, then stop *assuming* that is what is being thought/beleived, cause your way off on that assumption of these "many" Christians.. What you have done there, is called a division of Christianity by hateing something that you are "assuming" they are thinking...


for the record.. thats not what i was thinking or implied.. just how you took it
God has no reason to go around smoting.. we do it to ourselves more then enough, then Satan has a real good go, and when God doesnt have his presence around, Satan is successful a lot more often then not..


So to all that assumed one particular meaning from part of a statement.. I'll clarify... God doesnt smot anymore... because eh has no reason to. there is no purpose for God to go around smoting people, it doesnt achieve anything.

alorian
01-13-2006, 04:19 PM
Hey, knowing about this guy and everything got me bonus points on a quiz today... BONUS!!!!

amodman
01-13-2006, 06:28 PM
I never was attacking you personally, but the notion that you asserted of this sort of thing not even being possible. I'm sorry you took it personally :P. I must, however, still disagree with you. Also, if I may, point out two conflicting things in your thinking here -

people never liked being smot.. so nothing has changed..not that i mentioend what people like anyways . God has no reason to smot anyone. If God had a reason he may.. I NEVER said God wouldnt do any more smoting.. I just said he doesnt anymore. he still could, he just has no reason..


How can nothing be different in this respect than when the Bible tells us God did cause the deaths/destruction of several different people/places, but yet he has no reason to do this anymore? You can believe what you want, but this reasoning alone does not explain your viewpoint (I'm not saying you have to justify what you believe to us, but simply pointing this out).

This whole thing of God smoting people is what scares me.. I hear it WAY too much... God smot America with 9/11, and with the hurricane, and whatever else is happening.. *rolleyes*
God doesnt go around smoting people all the time, because he has no reason too

I guess this isn't the best time then to say that I do, personally, think the hurricane was a punishment to the city of New Orleans? I'm not telling you it was, nor do I have any evidence to the fact (haven't gotten any prophecies on the subject lately, unfortunately ;) ), but simply that's what I think. Why? Well, New Orleans was, simply put, the oldest sinful city in the history of the Americas. It was founded to be a new Paris, and developed as a hub of drinking, slavery, and voodoo. It was one of the largest and oldest pits of sin on perhaps the entire continent in that respect. So, as sad as it is, I certainly say it was a strong possibility it was punishment for the fact.

That's all I really have to say on that subject, and it may be perhaps a 'bit too much off topic to continue anyway (not that I was planning on it).

p.s. If nothing else, the lack of an 'e' in the word smote is terribly irking my English senses. Please add it in the future ;).

Spiffles
01-13-2006, 07:44 PM
I guess this isn't the best time then to say that I do, personally, think the hurricane was a punishment to the city of New Orleans? I'm not telling you it was, nor do I have any evidence to the fact (haven't gotten any prophecies on the subject lately, unfortunately ;) ), but simply that's what I think. Why? Well, New Orleans was, simply put, the oldest sinful city in the history of the Americas. It was founded to be a new Paris, and developed as a hub of drinking, slavery, and voodoo. It was one of the largest and oldest pits of sin on perhaps the entire continent in that respect. So, as sad as it is, I certainly say it was a strong possibility it was punishment for the fact.


With that.. it was more just an example, which is why I had the 9/11 thing in there too... but my point was (and not directed at you or anyone, but just there,) is that every time something bad happens, I hear Christians saying it was God.. like the bali bombing, all 3 of them, 9/11, Ariel sharon, the new orleans hurricane, the bush fire in Australia (which happen every year) the tsunami in the asia pacific, all I got from Christians was that it was God punishing people for their sins. Heck I even got it when i was really sick.. which from these Christians points of view was because I was swimming in sin and going to hell because I was playing Neverwinter Nights online.
I just hear it every time something happens from the small pathetic situations, to the big world wide affecting things and everything inbetween.. All i ever hear from Christians, is, God is punishing them for their sins, blah blah blah blah blah.

Most of the time, I would say, its our own (as the human race) stupid fault.. But as typical humasn, we tend to blame something else (me included i admit). That being that.. when we are sinning, We are not in Gods presence, and dont have Gods covering on our life so all the sin we create, we are swimming in, and have no way to get out. That alone equals nasty things to happen to us, and our environment since sin affects everything...
On top of all that, without Gods covering and protection because of our sin and our fault, Satan has access more easily to us, and he doesnt exactly do friendly lovey dovey things. He promotes the sin that we are creating, which kills us even more.


That is why I dont think God goes around smoteing people, or things anymore.. He doesnt need to. We do it to ourselves,a nd we invite Satan into our little party also by our sinning.
All God has to do is... nothing... Why would he waste his time, and effort and power doing something that we are doing anyways? I know i wouldnt.. Why cook, when you got a butler to cook for you.. that type of thing..

Anways.. Thats what I mean...

Sorry if i came off a bit personally before.. I was a bit grumpy this morning, and probably shouldnt have posted till now so I appologise for being an old grumpy bums.

Legacy
01-13-2006, 07:47 PM
I guess this isn't the best time then to say that I do, personally, think the hurricane was a punishment to the city of New Orleans?


Actually...I didn't really think of it this way until a special speaker came to my church this past Sunday (can't think of his name at the moment). He pointed out some of the things you did (voodoo, drinking, etc. etc.)


But anyways this is getting really off topic lol...

Isildur9473
01-13-2006, 08:27 PM
Hmm, maybe everyone who thinks that the hurricane hitting New Orleans was "A divine act" should look into the fact that hurricanes have struck all up and down that coast since America formed. That one area has probably been flooded 10,000 times, and will happen again.

riz
01-13-2006, 09:38 PM
Yeah, I've also heard that Oklahoma is paying for its immersion in sin the past few weeks with all those fires torching the state.

Isildur9473
01-13-2006, 09:39 PM
Yeah, I've also heard that Oklahoma is paying for its immersion in sin the past few weeks with all those fires torching the state.

I hope Idaho doesn't get struck next since it's full of Mormons. :\

NightCrawler
01-13-2006, 09:58 PM
: /.................

Isildur9473
01-13-2006, 11:03 PM
: /.................

Well, following in the current pattern, this place has almost no Christians in it, and sins are commited here. I would say Idaho fits the criteria using that method of thought.

lamb_servant72
01-14-2006, 02:22 AM
I see what you are saying, Spiffles. That last post made more sense for me.

But, while I agree that sickness and destruction can come from God's protection leaving us because of sin, thus Satan having a hey-day, I still think God still smites. The best example I can think of that I don't think will cause much debate (I say this because it is in the Word, we can debate hurricanes and 9/11 for the rest of this life) is Ananias and Sapphira.

In addition, I don't think those are the only two reasons (God's protection leaving us/smiting) we can experience sickness/destruction, either.

We do know that Sharon gave up the Gaza Strip, and that God says it belongs to Israel.

We also know that we are not to judge our leaders, or anyone else for that matter (think Miriam being smote [couldn't resist ;) ] with leprosy after stating that God was going to punish Abraham for his sin-when he did, in fact, sin). So, if I have said anything judgemental against Sharon, I repent and apologize.