animeraven34
01-12-2006, 10:35 PM
I have recently come to realize something about faith. And this realization came about because of something my therapist told me (yes, I see a therapist; I'm clinically depressed, I have social anxiety disorder, and I'm probably bipolar). Faith will only be as complicated, or as simple, as someone chooses to make it.

What I mean is, for some people, just going along with what their pastor tells them, doing what they've always done, believing what they were taught growing is where they feel the most comfortable. They choose not to take their faith any further than this.

For others, like me, that point is not enough. They wish to take their faith to a further degree. How far depends on the person.

This difference can become a problem. The first group can criticize the second group, saying that we should not be questioning, we should be accepting. Where as, we in the second group can get annoyed with the first group, saying that their faith has stagnated and such. So, is there some sort of a happy medium where everyone will get along? No. Neither group has to like how the other one views faith, I'm saying we need to realize that this is a choice every Christian must make.

skynes
01-13-2006, 12:52 AM
I would go along with both at the same time. They're not mutually exclusive.

I belive what my Pastor tells me because I trust him. Even if I don't fully understand what hes saying, I still believe it. Hes helped me a lot in the past and taught me many helpful things.
Things which, at the time I thought were rediculous, which I later learnt were 100% true

On the other hand, I question everything I'm told. Not out of doubt, but because of belief. By questioning, I learn. Questions require answers, different questions require different answers.

For me questions is a kind of meditating on God's Word. What I was told about a chapter may be totally true, but by questioning it, looking at other theories and ideas and considering alternatives, I may end up at the same conclusion, making it even further ingrained as truth.

Or, I may come up with a different conclusion that makes even more sense than the original I was told.

--------------------

Bear in mind that there is a difference between Faithful questioning and Disbelief questioning.

Faithful questioning is "Test everything, hold fast what is good", it wants to know the truth and seeks the truth
e.g. Mary when confronted with Gabriel and the news of Christ's birth.

Disbelief questioning is "That's trash, prove it to me!" IT disbelieves immediately and wants evidence.
e.g. Zacharias confronted with Gabriel and the news of him having a son.

lamb_servant72
01-13-2006, 05:15 AM
*hands Scott the "Genius" crown to wear for the day*

Very well said.

The Word says that the Holy Spirit is our teacher. I, too, question to learn, and to further understand and ingrain something as truth.

There are things that I have been "taught" were truth, but I just don't get it, so I ask God to teach me. Sometimes I figure maybe that's meat I'm not ready to chew, yet. But, I'm not going to believe something just because someone tells me it's truth. I want God to tell me.

One specific teaching comes to mind, that I actually wound up finding scripture that says the exact opposite. Does this mean I write off the "denominations" that teach that particular teaching? No, we are all apart of the Body, and we each have our purpose.

Did I just go off topic?

skynes
01-13-2006, 05:17 AM
No I don't think u went off topic.

Yay I get to wear a crown with a mis-spelled title... Hmm... Does that not make me look stupid? Lol

lamb_servant72
01-13-2006, 05:45 AM
ROFL!! I told you, I'm doing seven things at once! I'm typing so fast, you wouldn't believe all of the mistakes I'm making! But, that definitely had to be the best one! ;D

animeraven34
01-13-2006, 08:14 AM
I would go along with both at the same time. They're not mutually exclusive.
I did not say they were mutually exclusive. If that was implied, then I'm sorry.

On the rare occasion I do go to a Church service, I pay no attention to what the pastor says. I've been to many different Churches, I've heard many different speakers...and they all bore the heck out of me and/or have flawed theologies. I attended a Church in Michgan where the pastor had to say at least twice in every service, that anyone who listens to Rock music is going to hell. I heard a pastor at a youth conference once who was saying that if you want anything, then all you have to do is pray for it everyday and you'll get it. His example? He and his wife prayed everyday for 17 years that they'd get a new Mercedes. I questioned the tradition of going to Church every Sunday, I questioned denominations, I questioned having Church buildings, and decided I wanted nothing to do with any of them.

And as I can not think clearly right now, I'm going to quit before I annoy anyone or make a fool of myself.

Mr. Xcitement
01-13-2006, 08:35 AM
I completely understand what you're saying, I have never really found a church that I feel I belong to, and instead grow my faith on my own with my fiancie. I read things on my own and, like you, try and listen to God and have Him teach me. I have been criticed a lot in the past because of this, being told that I'm "taking it too far", but how can you take Jesus too far? Aren't we told to have "faith like a mountain"? I personally feel that some of these people might be too scared to give their whole lives and body to God, but that's just my 2 cents.

unshakeable15
01-13-2006, 03:43 PM
i have a question for you both, Nick and Jon.

if in your reading and questioning you come across a "truth" that you recieve from God, how do you doublecheck that?

the Bible is good, but it's only one piece of the larger puzzle. what about friends or companions who you can talk things out with? that's what the church is supposed to be, not a large service to get fed by a pastor. it's supposed to be a place to learn, through a message and discussion amongst friends. so where do you get that to doublecheck yourselves?

lamb_servant72
01-13-2006, 03:54 PM
May I? Panheads ;D , Christian friends, Christian radio, Christian TV, etc.

Although, I do see your point Mike. Regardless of the human errors, I miss having a "church home".

animeraven34
01-13-2006, 06:05 PM
i have a question for you both, Nick and Jon.

if in your reading and questioning you come across a "truth" that you recieve from God, how do you doublecheck that?

the Bible is good, but it's only one piece of the larger puzzle. what about friends or companions who you can talk things out with? that's what the church is supposed to be, not a large service to get fed by a pastor. it's supposed to be a place to learn, through a message and discussion amongst friends. so where do you get that to doublecheck yourselves?
A valid concern. But if I might point something out, where you described what a Church is supposed to be...none of the Churches around where I live fit that description. I have been to Churches that do fit that description, and I enjoyed them very much. Anyway.

I have several friends that I can talk things out with. I double check things by praying, going to the Bible, and discussion with friends. My decision to stop going to Church, to question theologies and ideas that I hear, was not one I made lightly.

lamb_servant72
01-14-2006, 02:28 AM
Again, I could say "ditto" but it would be too short.

I left church when my church "family" turned its back on me and my children after my husband, who was the praise and worship leader, was arrested for stalking.

I went through that hell with no one reaching out to me. God and God alone was my friend, my comfort, my teacher, my help, my provider, my everything.

That's not the only thing that turned me away from the "organized" church, but it was the clencher.

I saw something this past week, (was it on here? I can't remember) that said: People are leaving church to come back to God.

I realize I sound very cynical, please keep in mind that I have said elsewhere that those that have a church home where they are being fed, rock on! But, at the same time, church sometimes seems so far from the church in Acts. And those that have been hurt by it, do not feel the same right now about "church" as those that are being fed in one.

Maybe the solution isn't to leave. But, it is disheartening to see people that God created and loves, like Disciple, CJ, and Jon, hurt and rejected by the "organized" church.

I am so thankful for those of you that have a church home, but please don't criticize those that choose not to. (Not that you were criticizing, Mike, I know you weren't, you were asking a specific question.)

As a pastor's daughter, former Sunday School teacher, former Children and Youth pastor, and someone who went to college on partial scolarships to go into full time ministry, this was not a decision I made lightly. And it bothers me still. I would like to find a home church.

I am still involved in ministry and missions, but it's not through the church.

drumchick101
01-14-2006, 09:10 AM
This is where I wish I could start this crazy revolution to reform the entire American church. But that's God's job and perhaps He will use our generation to do it becasue I sick and tired of the American church being crap heads. I mean, so many have it all wrong, which has been stated. My cousin has her entire church with their backs turned just becasue she's deciding to go elsewhere because the youth group hasn't treated her very well (and that's the short of it) and about 6 mounths ago she had to be questioned by the FBI because the pastor got busted for tons of illegal pornography. I keep telling her that she can't put her trust in the people before she puts her trust in God because people can let her down. She's still a new believer.

As for us (my mom, sister and I) our church turned its back completly on my mom over a stupid, petty little argument and that person was "hurt". I won't get into the whole story, but bottom line, it was time to leave. We prayed for a few months and God led us to a church and that is where we reside. Now, the church is 50 miles away, but I'm not complaining. We are tryng to move down there but it's been 3 years with no such luck. So I can agree when I can say that there's only one decent church we found within 50 minles of our home. So I say..pray, that's the only thing I know, and perhaps God will bring you one.

But I will say that's there's awsme church in Detroit that I've gone to and my mom knows that pastor personally. If anyone who looks at this thread lives in that area and is chuch hunting I just thought I'd make a suggestion. If you want to know more, just ask.

I am one that likes to question things, I aim to question nearly everything I'm told. Now, this does not mean I reject it but I question it before I accept it. In catholic school they told me a lot of stuff and those people sucked it right in without even thinking about it. I think that is where I learned to question everything becasue I was also going to an assemblies of God church with my mom at the same time and there, I learned otherwise. So I took what I agreed with from each one. More from the assemblies of God chruch than the catholic church but you get the point. I think it's only good and healthy to question. It helps you to think before jumping on the bandwgon.

><sarah><

disciple
01-14-2006, 11:15 AM
And it bothers me still. I would like to find a home church.
As it does me.

But at least I know that over the Internet, though muddled my thoughts may be, come off better and sometimes even clearer.

loner_33
01-15-2006, 02:41 PM
My two cents (hardly even that, more like a penny):
Just let the Bible be your final authority on everything. I don't particularly like the way that denominations have divided up today in America... some do so, so that they can twist and distort the Word into what they can use to their own personal advantage...
The only way to find out if that church is dead, is by reading the book that made the church in the first place.

skynes
01-16-2006, 02:46 AM
To all of you without churches: If you don't already, pray for a church to come.

In my area there is one church, long standing too. It's membership consists of the people wo got saved there 30-40 years ago and their children.
A bit of a generalisation there but the point was that outreach wasm mainly a 'come to us' thing. Which I avoided because it meant contact with the people of my area.

SO! Since I would not go the the local church and since I'm in an awkward area (surrounded on ALL sides by rival gang territory to put it simply), God brought a church to me.

I know He does that. I will join you in prayer for a real church to start near you all.

lamb_servant72
01-16-2006, 03:52 AM
I will join you in prayer for a real church to start near you all.
Thanks, Scott. I started praying for that, too, after reading this thread. I will be praying for those of us that don't have a home church that God will provide that for us. Shall we start a list:D?

skynes
01-16-2006, 04:02 AM
Another prayer list? Have I started a trend? lol.

Be my guest, you're in charge of it ;)

disciple
01-16-2006, 11:48 AM
To all of you without churches: If you don't already, pray for a church to come.
I know that it won't be for a long time. There aren't any in my area that I can attend, and once we move I foresee many catholic churches, and I am not catholic.

drumchick101
01-16-2006, 02:14 PM
*laughes maniacally* Are you limiting/challenging God?? Trust, my freind, trust. I didn't forsee us finding a church, ever playing the drums, or ever haveing anything more to myself than my low self esteem & God fixed ALL of that. He gave us a church home, I am playing the drums in that church home (a true miricle), and I like myself (another true miricle) and appreciate myself. Trust, my freind, trust.

><sarah><

drumchick101
01-16-2006, 02:15 PM
Shall we start a list:D?

Whether you do or not, I will be praying for you guys.

><sarah><