as~i~lay~dying
02-07-2006, 07:18 AM
What do you guys think of this whole wire-tapping thing? Invasion of privacy? A good thing?

skynes
02-07-2006, 07:21 AM
Freedom is not a right, it's a privelege.

Therefore if the powers that be see it fit to listen in on your conversations for the purposes of enforcing Law, then so be it.

Emails are no different.
If I send an email from work, it's well within the power and law for my bosses to read my emails.

asparagus
02-07-2006, 07:59 AM
I would politely argue that many freedoms are rights and not privileges. I think it mostly depends on what freedoms you are talking about. As for monitoring conversations and emails, even I have no problem with that as long as a warrant is obtained. I think the real issue here is a debate over wire-tapping w/o warrants or warrants after the fact.

One of my favorite secular author (Margaret Atwood) writes this in A Handmaid's Tale: "there is freedom to and freedom from. But how much of the first should you have to give up in order to assure the second?" I like that phase because it describes the paradox so concisely.

sky_flashings
02-07-2006, 10:03 AM
I personally would rather have the government spy on my girlie conversations with my friends just to make sure there are no terrorists, than sit back and have them do nothing to help sift out who is a terrorist and who is not. Granted, I can't say I like others listening in on my conversations, but I'd rather know that they're making sure we're safe, instead of just letting it go.
Postwar/threat, though, I think it needs to stop. Or else the gov will become our Big Brother and we'll see our freedom slip away.

Isildur9473
02-07-2006, 10:36 AM
If you believe your right to keeping something private from an NSA analyst who couldn't care less is more important than National Security....

PinkGoo
02-07-2006, 10:45 AM
I personally would rather have the government spy on my girlie conversations with my friends just to make sure there are no terrorists, than sit back and have them do nothing to help sift out who is a terrorist and who is not.
I agree. I couldn't care less. If they want to listen to my stupid conversations, go right ahead. It doesn't bother me. If it's going to help keep the country safer from terrorism and the like, that's fine.

OTD
02-07-2006, 11:56 AM
Only specific accounts are usually wiretapped. Most of ours won't ever be..well most of yours anyway. If you talk on a cellphone, your calls have been "monitored" for years. All cellphone calls are processed real time through a super computer (in England for those in the US, in Virginia for those in the UK) and each conversation is digitally analyzed for certain "tag" words. Materials, actions, words that the bad guys use. Every email you send actually bounces through one of 5 centers in the US. There used to be a program you could run after sending an email to see exactly where it hit, but it got yanked literally hours after it was posted. I sent one to Indiana that bounced through Virginia. If they want to listen to the mushy conversations I have with my girlfriend, more power to them. I ain't got nothin to hide...

But..then again...absolute power corrupts absolutely....

Isildur9473
02-07-2006, 01:53 PM
Virginia in the UK..?

xtremepnhd
02-07-2006, 02:02 PM
I wrote a song about this making fun of people against it, "You can bomb the buildings, you can kill my children, you can destroy America but leave my phone alone!" I also say, "it's better to be safe than sorry"

Remember 9/11

Mr. Xcitement
02-07-2006, 05:18 PM
I wrote a song about this making fun of people against it, "You can bomb the buildings, you can kill my children, you can destroy America but leave my phone alone!" I also say, "it's better to be safe than sorry"

Remember 9/11

That is so awesome! I completely agree. I would rather they listen in on my phone conversations than have someone bomb our cities.

skilletosis
02-07-2006, 05:47 PM
If you believe your right to keeping something private from an NSA analyst who couldn't care less is more important than National Security....

The last thing I want to do is draw more attention to one of the most opinionated persons here, but this statement truelly calls for it. :) :) :)

-A STANDING O TO YOU, WELL SAID-

petrameansrock
02-07-2006, 06:58 PM
Heh. I have no problem with phonetaps, I mean as long as its the US GOVERNMENT doing it and not someone I know. What I DONT like is when the government investigates people because theyre Muslim and for no other reason. I also hate how people attribute terrorism to Muslims only. Now I admit that YES it was the Muslims who killed 2500 people on 9/11 and YES its the Muslims that kill so many people in the Middle East. But in the US, there have been MANY more White-Anglo terrorists than Muslim. Just look through your newspaper. WHITE people committing hate crimes (yes thats terrorism) againts Blacks, Jews, and Muslims. Timothy McVeigh was White. Tim Kaczynski (The Unabomber) was White. If anything, AMERICAN Muslims are more victims than perpetrators.

as~i~lay~dying
02-07-2006, 08:31 PM
Yeah me too....I'm ok with it~if it will help our country be more secure then is all good. It made me kinda mad when on the news these people were freaking about our privacy blah blah blah.

riz
02-07-2006, 09:59 PM
I wrote a song about this making fun of people against it, "You can bomb the buildings, you can kill my children, you can destroy America but leave my phone alone!" I also say, "it's better to be safe than sorry"

I would like to request politely for you not to make fun of me again. Ever. Please.

skilletosis
02-08-2006, 04:08 PM
Tim Kaczynski (The Unabomber)

Wasn't it Ted not Tim.

alorian
02-08-2006, 07:02 PM
Get a warrant as required by law and listen to my LAME jokes. I don't care, as long as you do it lawfully. 10000 warrants have been requested. 4 have been denied.

petrameansrock
02-08-2006, 07:44 PM
Wasn't it Ted not Tim.

Yea Ted not Tim. Thats what I get for posting while Im tired. Sorry!

PinkGoo
02-12-2006, 05:18 PM
I would like to request politely for you not to make fun of me again. Ever. Please.
That made me laugh. Quite hard, actually. :)

Sorry, Riz.

riz
02-13-2006, 06:28 PM
No need to apologize. We all need to get our kicks somewhere.

TheFireBreathes
02-13-2006, 06:55 PM
Heh. I have no problem with phonetaps, I mean as long as its the US GOVERNMENT doing it and not someone I know. What I DONT like is when the government investigates people because theyre Muslim and for no other reason.

I would like to see when and where that has happened. As far as I know, that would be violating the constitition and they would have to have a probable cause in order to search and investigate. A large percentage of terrororists are infact Muslim. Look how easily the terrorists of 9/11 hopped on board, killed the pilots. and hijacked the plane with small carry on knives. I would want the government to do more searches on Muslims coming to and out of the country considering Al Queda has frequently announced that they are going to attack us again. And they do ahve to right to do random searches. I was even searched on time. I mean, even when Im at the airport or on an airplane and see a Muslim I do think to myself 'I wonder if that person is a terrorist'. And Im sure many people on the boards do the same as well.

timmyrotter
02-13-2006, 08:10 PM
im not even gonna read this thread... cause its not worth it... but here is my take...
Congress gave the president authority to protect our country from terrorists, and wire-tapping of suspicious international phones calls and emails is okay. anyone who dissagrees is a terrorist. if you have nothing to hide then why get all worked up about it? and no i dont think that goevernment should have unristricted access to all our personal things, but these are isolated cases, and need to be done for the protectioin of our country!

cloroxmartini
02-13-2006, 08:27 PM
One thing that I would point out is that there would be no reason for the government to monitor everyday people's phone calls unless they had a very good reason for doing so.

riz
02-13-2006, 09:18 PM
I mean, even when Im at the airport or on an airplane and see a Muslim I do think to myself 'I wonder if that person is a terrorist'.

I'm sorry but I think you should rewire your thinking, as that's overgeneralization. This is just like what happened in the 1940s and when everyone got all paranoid about the Japanese. I wonder why people didn't do any of that sort of thing to any of the Germans. Hm.

There are other people who are terrorists than a few Muslims. Just because one might wear a turban or wear a sari does not mean that they're going to blow up a freaking airplane.

Spiffles
02-13-2006, 09:31 PM
I'm sorry but I think you should rewire your thinking, as that's overgeneralization. This is just like what happened in the 1940s and when everyone got all paranoid about the Japanese. I wonder why people didn't do any of that sort of thing to any of the Germans. Hm.

There are other people who are terrorists than a few Muslims. Just because one might wear a turban or wear a sari does not mean that they're going to blow up a freaking airplane.


They did do that sort of thing with the germans.. as with the Japanese.

I do agree with you though, that we shouldnt eb thinking all muslims are terroists.. its only a msall percentage of what i call "morons that have their religious views screwed up" that are terroists..

asparagus
02-14-2006, 08:35 AM
A large percentage of terrororists are infact Muslim. Look how easily the terrorists of 9/11 hopped on board, killed the pilots. and hijacked the plane with small carry on knives. I would want the government to do more searches on Muslims coming to and out of the country considering Al Queda has frequently announced that they are going to attack us again.(...) I mean, even when Im at the airport or on an airplane and see a Muslim I do think to myself 'I wonder if that person is a terrorist'.
I actually agree with TheFireBreathes. It's about time someone on here actually had the courage to say what needs to be said.

Let's face it, Al Queda ONLY recruits Muslims. It's a much more dangerous religion that is a lot more violent than any other religion out there. I mean, do you see Hindus hijacking planes? I don't think so.

If it wasn't for Muslims and 9/11, our economy would be a lot stronger than it is now. I'm not trying to pass of blame, I'm just saying what needs to be said.

The only problem with searching more Muslims is that it is hard to tell who is a Muslim and who isn't. I mean, terrorists aren't dumb. Eventually they would start recruiting Muslims who don't look like Muslims. That's why we should act now to make all Muslims wear the Muslim Crescent on their chest. That way we can all tell who to suspect and who is safe to trust. It's not going to hurt to require it. And if someone protests, obviously they have something to hide.

im not even gonna read this thread... cause its not worth it...Well said. It's time we stopped listening so much to liberals (AKA domestic terrorists) and started taking some real action to protect the FatherLand.
Congress gave the president authority to protect our country from terrorists, and wire-tapping of suspicious international phones calls and emails is okay. anyone who dissagrees is a terrorist. if you have nothing to hide then why get all worked up about it? Exactly. They are practically terrorists too because they make the country weaker with all their arguments and distractions. If you ask me, it's better to be safe than sorry, and I think we should have them wear something identifiable too, so it's obvious they should be searched at airports and generally not trusted.

I know these might be considered extreme measures, but these are extreme times. It's either protecting our rights or protecting our families, and I'd vote we protect our families at all costs. We're under attack. From terrorists to Iraq, to Iran to homosexuals trying to destroy the family. It's time we started fighting back and actually doing something about it. It begins by seperating out those that are damaging our society and running a risk to our safety (homosexuals, anti-patriotic liberals, potentially any Muslim). We need a way to easily identify them like some kind of badge that they wear all the time. It's time we started protecting ourselves and our families. Better safe than sorry. If we don't, another 9/11 could happen, and it's just not worth the risk. Anyone who is against this proposal is just asking for another 9/11.

Isildur9473
02-14-2006, 08:43 AM
Hmm, I sense a bit of sarcasm. ;)

Who knows what the right anwser is? Personally I don't see a problem with wire-tapping foreign calls since whoever would listen on them anyways is most likely an underpaid NSA analayst who couldn't care less about anything you have to say that isn't relevant to National Security.

As for Muslims, what do we do there? We can't brand them with a badge realistically, that would be a bad idea anyways. America isn't about singling out people because the majority of the same people in other countries are against us.

And Homosexuals? Let em get married, why not? Might as well let em be happy, it's not up to us to use the bible as a guide for what we do in a Federal Government. Just because Christians think that homosexuality is wrong doesn't mean that we have any right to try to ban it in America.

unshakeable15
02-14-2006, 05:12 PM
And Homosexuals? Let em get married, why not? Might as well let em be happy, it's not up to us to use the bible as a guide for what we do in a Federal Government. Just because Christians think that homosexuality is wrong doesn't mean that we have any right to try to ban it in America.
'Cause homosexuality is what this thread's all about. :P

Isildur9473
02-14-2006, 05:15 PM
'Cause homosexuality is what this thread's all about. :P

He mentioned it..

TheFireBreathes
02-14-2006, 05:47 PM
I'm sorry but I think you should rewire your thinking, as that's overgeneralization. This is just like what happened in the 1940s and when everyone got all paranoid about the Japanese. I wonder why people didn't do any of that sort of thing to any of the Germans. Hm.

There are other people who are terrorists than a few Muslims. Just because one might wear a turban or wear a sari does not mean that they're going to blow up a freaking airplane.

I know not all of them are going to blow up the airplane. I'm not stupid. From things like the news and movies, its just a thought that pops into my head automatically. All you see in the media is them making stories on MUSLIM terrorists. I have yet to see a German terrorist. The Japs havent had an attack since the 1940's AND I wasnt alive so I dont why you are bringing that up anyways. Especially since I wasnt alive to experience it/hear about it on the news. I think you're the one overgenerallizing if your bringing the Japanesse and the Germans into this problem.

unshakeable15
02-16-2006, 03:51 PM
all Riz was doing was comparing today to the past, something that helps us to learn and keep from making the same mistakes.

a lot of people (dare i say all?) get those thoughts. but racism (and this is what it's coming down to) is only racism if acted upon. kill the prejudiced thoughts and slowly you'll learn to see everyone as an individual instead of grouping people together as Italians, Japanese, Potential-Terrorists...

just a thought or three. :)