petrameansrock
02-07-2006, 07:10 PM
No, I am not a Satanist, I have absolutely NO desire to be, I believe its EVIL (not necessarily the people who practice it, love the sinner, hate the sin).

Do you think there is any real "power" to Satanism? Ive had discussions with parents and church leaders over this very subject. I believe there is. While we all know that Satan cant make huge changes on Earth, he can influence things. When Satanists claim they got more popular, got a better job, met a beautiful woman, after praying to Satan about it, they might not be just imagining it. Ya know how, on a saxophone, you can press a key at the top of the instrument, but something on the very end moves? I think thats what Satan can do. He can change things, little things, to give in to your fantasies.

What do yall think?

amodman
02-07-2006, 07:29 PM
A. Pet peeve of mine, Satanism is a term used generally only by Christians. There are certain religions that worship Satan himself, but more often than not they are worshipping demonic representations and etc. and, oooh, the Devil, lol. "Satanism" is an annoying conglomerative group that Christians tend to toss out. Heck, in all truth of the word, pretty much any religon worshipping anything other than God is, basically, worshipping an image most likely set up, or at least being used by a demon or demons.

B. Demons are very real and active in the world. Though, you should understand, Satan himself is actually chained in a theoretical abyss along with several of his original fallen until he and they are again going to be loosed upon the Earth. However, there are still very many Demonic spirits roaming the Earth both from fallen and the Nephilim (half-fallen half-human race I'm sure you've heard reference to in the Bible.

C. So, yes, demonic power exists. Very much so. In fact, I'd say it's quite possible for a person completely and utterly devoted to demonic worship in an occult that, for instance, teaches "magical power" of some sort to "use" this power to attain the "perfect" material life. Multiple things going on here, however.

Firstly, the "power" (or miracle or what have you in the instance) granted the person is not something they actually are controlling, but something being persuaded and deceived upon them by the demon or demons that they are controlling.

Secondly, this person spiritual life is really going to be a mess. It's entirely possible that, through posession, they may even lose all but the most superficial control of their own thoughts and actions. If your desire is to lose complete control of yourself mentally and spiritually and damn yourself to eternal pain in hell, well, be my guest to pursue an occultic path to those ends.

And Finally, even if such a person went into a "deal" like this with certain ends in mind, over time, likelihood is those ends or going to be lost in the shuffle. That is, at first, the demon(s) will make it appear that the person is getting everything they wanted, while slowly more and more gaining control of that person.

You may ask, but can demonic power really affect those who are not willingly under demonic impression? Yes, very yes. In fact, the only protection us sinful (that is, already given ourselves over to be susceptible to demonic influence and power) humans have is through God and Christ. This is what spiritual attacks are all about, and they're not always "figurative" like many modern-day American churches play them out today. I've heard so many personal accounts of stories of Christians going into the pits of demonic circles and seeing their power physically at work and of those who were in those demonic circles experiencing this "power" it's not even funny. So, my end point is, yes, demonic power exists, and as followers of Christ we must be wary of it. Not too worried, though, for as long as your are putting your faith and protection in Christ, you are safe. That is not to say you won't ever be faced with trials of the demonic sort, but that as long as you hold true to God they can never affect you in the end...

petrameansrock
02-07-2006, 08:17 PM
Well when I said "Satan" I was using the term to mean any sort of occultic figure a people might worship.

I think in a couple of those paragraphs you are describing selling your soul to the Devil for material possessions or skills. I dont remember where it was, Im pretty sure it was a very famous book, where a man sells his soul to the Devil so he could get the woman he loved (maybe it was riches, not a woman), thinking that the Devil wouldnt REALLY try to "collect" on their exchange. But the Devil does, instead of just giving her to him, he takes them both down to Hell (or an Earthly equivalent) and he finally realizes his mistake.

amodman
02-07-2006, 08:22 PM
Well when I said "Satan" I was using the term to mean any sort of occultic figure a people might worship.

I think in a couple of those paragraphs you are describing selling your soul to the Devil for material possessions or skills. I dont remember where it was, Im pretty sure it was a very famous book, where a man sells his soul to the Devil so he could get the woman he loved (maybe it was riches, not a woman), thinking that the Devil wouldnt REALLY try to "collect" on their exchange. But the Devil does, instead of just giving her to him, he takes them both down to Hell (or an Earthly equivalent) and he finally realizes his mistake.

Ummm, no, I was not talking about "selling your soul to the devil." While it may exist, I know of know such thing. As far as my knowledge is concerned that is simply a poetic device utilized in fiction and popularized by Society. Sin, no matter how extravagant, is forgivable. So even the most completely posessed and devoted humans to demons could, potentially, be saved.

petrameansrock
02-07-2006, 08:26 PM
Ah. Sorry, I was seeing things in your writing than werent really there.

Thanks for the clarification.

Think about it though, selling your soul to the Devil. I know Im not alone out there, but if I was given a chance to sell my soul to the Devil for something or someone I dont know what Id do. While I do truly believe in God and Christ, and Id like to think that I would say no to the Devils offer, I really couldnt say unless I was in the situation.

And yea, I know that its a literary device, but right there I was speaking in what-if.

amodman
02-07-2006, 08:35 PM
Ah. Sorry, I was seeing things in your writing than werent really there.

Thanks for the clarification.

Think about it though, selling your soul to the Devil. I know Im not alone out there, but if I was given a chance to sell my soul to the Devil for something or someone I dont know what Id do. While I do truly believe in God and Christ, and Id like to think that I would say no to the Devils offer, I really couldnt say unless I was in the situation.

And yea, I know that its a literary device, but right there I was speaking in what-if.

Well, then rest easy, because you can't! At least, not in the literal sense, heh. However, in a certain respect, we are faced with this situation every day. Whether we choose to live for God or not. Purposely sinning and moving away from God, little by little, leaves us more and more open to demonic attack and influence. So, really, you make this decision (unbeknownst to yourself) every day.

The fact that you are even now discussing this topic in relation to God and following his shows that you already are convinced that God is real and that living for him is better than living for attaining goals and benefits in this world already. Some decisions you may have to make in life, that will be for or against God, certainly will be tougher than others, but that's the challenge of life :). (and the very thing you can see complained about most in the Bible by us miserable humans, heh)

skynes
02-08-2006, 12:49 AM
I would agree mostly with Amos par the Satan being tied up bit.

Satanism at its core, is extreme atheism, nothing more.

Now witchcraft and Wicca, that's a different story.

Their power is very real, very powerful and very dangerous. It is not the user that has the power, but the demon behind it, they think the demon obeys them, when in reality it simply follows their orders to more fully deceive them.

unshakeable15
02-09-2006, 07:24 PM
I think in a couple of those paragraphs you are describing selling your soul to the Devil for material possessions or skills. I dont remember where it was, Im pretty sure it was a very famous book, where a man sells his soul to the Devil so he could get the woman he loved (maybe it was riches, not a woman), thinking that the Devil wouldnt REALLY try to "collect" on their exchange. But the Devil does, instead of just giving her to him, he takes them both down to Hell (or an Earthly equivalent) and he finally realizes his mistake.
you're talking about Goethe's play "Faust" but you were wrong about the end. he gets into Heaven though the devil thinks he's won. but because, according to the play, Faust struggled for knowledge, growth and transcendence, he gets to share in the glory of Heaven. (find full synopsis here (http://www.awerty.com/faust.html), if you are so interested.)

Though, you should understand, Satan himself is actually chained in a theoretical abyss along with several of his original fallen until he and they are again going to be loosed upon the Earth.
didn't satan say, in Job, that he had just come from "roaming through the earth (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=job%201:6-8;&version=31;)"? is that simply a poetic devise, did it take place before Satan's binding, or am i misunderstanding it? or is satan not bound? (also check out 1 Peter 5.8 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=67&chapter=5&verse=8&version=31&context=verse))

petrameansrock
02-09-2006, 07:42 PM
Thanks for the information about the play Mike, ive been trying to figure out where that story came from.

As for Satan in Job, I think that "chained up" or whatever the exact terminology was, meant that he wasnt literally "chained" as in, he has to be confined to Hell. I think it was more figurative, meaning he can't use the full range of his powers. He can tempt and all, but he can actually physically change things.

But then again, im no expert.

theelectric3
02-09-2006, 11:53 PM
short answer: yes, there is power there. try and come against a demonic force in your own strength and you will lose every time. it is only through the blood of Jesus that we find victory to overcome.

so yes, there is power there. but the power is weak in comparision to Christ.