Isildur9473
02-15-2006, 04:03 PM
The month of February is Black History Month. It's a time when we can come together and share the rich cultural heritage the African American people have. That includes Jazz music, folk songs, the culture they came from, and the people in history that have accheived monumental things for the Blacks, such as Harriet Tubman, WEB DuBois and Martin Luther King.

The month of March is Women's History Month. It's a time when we can come together and dwell in the accheivements of women such as Mother Theresa, Rosa Parks and Susan B. Anthony.

I want a Men's History Month, since men are in fact just as important in history as Women. What kind of message are they trying to send?

Why can't we have a White History Month? America is built on equality, hence every race should have a History Month, or no race should. Mexicans, Chinese, Russians, Polish, Swiss, Canadian, people from Uzbekistan, everyone should have a history month so they don't feel left out.

Aren't you tired of this inequality? We need to stand up for our rights!

TheFireBreathes
02-15-2006, 04:05 PM
I could care less....



(sorry Greg)

PinkGoo
02-15-2006, 04:35 PM
He has a really good point. I just don't see how it could ever happen.

petrameansrock
02-15-2006, 04:41 PM
Unfortunately, it seems that Mens History Month has been going on since the beginning of time, and it shows no sign of stopping soon! Face it, most men are egotistic and way too prideful!

PinkGoo
02-15-2006, 04:42 PM
Face it, most men are egotistic and way too prideful!
That's because they are men and men are awesome that way.

disciple
02-15-2006, 04:55 PM
White History month? Well, I dunno.

sky_flashings
02-15-2006, 04:59 PM
Heh, no offense, but I forsee trying to start a White History Month as a bit boost in the KKK's ego and many who aren't white protesting. Why? Because that's just how this country is...

as~i~lay~dying
02-15-2006, 05:24 PM
haha Greg you come up with things I would never think of! =) Interesting idea!

NightCrawler
02-15-2006, 07:18 PM
The month of February is Black History Month. It's a time when we can come together and share the rich cultural heritage the African American people have. That includes Jazz music, folk songs, the culture they came from, and the people in history that have accheived monumental things for the Blacks, such as Harriet Tubman, WEB DuBois and Martin Luther King.

The month of March is Women's History Month. It's a time when we can come together and dwell in the accheivements of women such as Mother Theresa, Rosa Parks and Susan B. Anthony.

I want a Men's History Month, since men are in fact just as important in history as Women. What kind of message are they trying to send?

Why can't we have a White History Month? America is built on equality, hence every race should have a History Month, or no race should. Mexicans, Chinese, Russians, Polish, Swiss, Canadian, people from Uzbekistan, everyone should have a history month so they don't feel left out.

Aren't you tired of this inequality? We need to stand up for our rights!It is racism all the same. Just it doesn't specifically attacking any race, it just elevates one race above the others. Same with sexism.

Isildur9473
02-15-2006, 07:30 PM
White History month? Well, I dunno.

Why? What's so bad about the idea?

NightCrawler
02-15-2006, 07:32 PM
I think it won't go anywhere because people go "OUR HISTORY DOESN'T HAVE BLACK PEOPLE, LET'S DIVERSIFY"... so the other months make up for it. Lame. History is history.

Isildur9473
02-15-2006, 07:33 PM
I think it won't go anywhere because people go "OUR HISTORY DOESN'T HAVE BLACK PEOPLE, LET'S DIVERSIFY"... so the other months make up for it. Lame. History is history.

No, I mean if other ethnicities get a month, we should too. I couldn't care less about diversity. Affirmitve Action can burn in hell.

NightCrawler
02-15-2006, 07:34 PM
In their mind the lack of other ethnicities being saturated in the history that we have recorded makes it White History.

Isildur9473
02-15-2006, 07:35 PM
In their mind the lack of other ethnicities being saturated in the history that we have recorded makes it White History.

That's nice for them, but that's the way things played out, it's not our fault. If they're going to preach equality, they had better be ready for everything that encompasses.

NightCrawler
02-15-2006, 07:36 PM
But you know by now we can't get rid of Feb or march's month's statuses.

Isildur9473
02-15-2006, 07:37 PM
But you know by now we can't get rid of Feb or march's month's statuses.

I know, I'm not saying we should. I'm saying we should make 2 other months white history month, and mens history month.

NightCrawler
02-15-2006, 07:40 PM
Well, there are only 12 months. Soon after 'white' then we get sub divisions for what white defines (100 years ago italians weren't considered white). Plus there are asians, blacks, native americans, etc.

newday_7
02-15-2006, 08:53 PM
I was just wondering about this sorta thing the other day

aliengurl7
02-15-2006, 08:57 PM
Why can't you have a white history month? Go for it.

PinkGoo
02-15-2006, 09:05 PM
I like the idea of a Men's History month. Even if we can't give every race a specific month, at least we can be fair to the two sexes.

Isildur9473
02-15-2006, 10:39 PM
Why can't you have a white history month? Go for it.

I want it to be declared by everyone. Just like how in the schools they post "Black History Month" posters everywhere, they should do the same for whites.

eowyn
02-15-2006, 11:34 PM
Nah-I disagree. What this does is help us to recognize traditionally undervalued ethnic and minority groups such as African-Americans and Women. We're celebrating the accomplishments of individuals who might not otherwise have been noted, due to their ethnicity or gender during a time of cultural ignorance. I do believe that there still exists things such as white or male privaledge. Do I believe that this should shame men or Caucasion Americans such as myself? No. Definately not. But, I do understand the struggle. It's frustrating to feel culturally naked--like someone left you out. That's why its cool to find the ethnic parts of your background and celebrate them. I'mm 1/4 French Canadian, 1/8 Canadian Indian, Irish, and German. I am extremely pround of my last name, which is also French-Canadian, specifically from Quebec. But, I don't feel like traditionally, my French ancestors were devalued because of their ethnicity. On another thought, responding to your white history month idea--if you think about it, it happens every day in history class. Think about who they study in most general history classes? Greeks, Romans, World War 1-European, primarily white males, Civil War--some mention now of African-Americans, mostly due to context, but still, alot of focus on the generals, who were? European males. Prejudice, still occurs, but unfortuantly, it's rather sneaky and subtle. The sixties weren't that long ago.

sky_flashings
02-16-2006, 02:25 AM
Greg, I wrote a very heated letter to the President about this...He felt so bad for you, that he designated February 26th, 4 p.m. EST, white hour. It is the hour throughout the year in which we will be able to celebrate white people. I'm sorry, but I guess that's all that could be done...

Isildur9473
02-16-2006, 05:51 AM
Nah-I disagree. What this does is help us to recognize traditionally undervalued ethnic and minority groups such as African-Americans and Women. We're celebrating the accomplishments of individuals who might not otherwise have been noted, due to their ethnicity or gender during a time of cultural ignorance. I do believe that there still exists things such as white or male privaledge. Do I believe that this should shame men or Caucasion Americans such as myself? No. Definately not. But, I do understand the struggle. It's frustrating to feel culturally naked--like someone left you out. That's why its cool to find the ethnic parts of your background and celebrate them. I'mm 1/4 French Canadian, 1/8 Canadian Indian, Irish, and German. I am extremely pround of my last name, which is also French-Canadian, specifically from Quebec. But, I don't feel like traditionally, my French ancestors were devalued because of their ethnicity. On another thought, responding to your white history month idea--if you think about it, it happens every day in history class. Think about who they study in most general history classes? Greeks, Romans, World War 1-European, primarily white males, Civil War--some mention now of African-Americans, mostly due to context, but still, alot of focus on the generals, who were? European males. Prejudice, still occurs, but unfortuantly, it's rather sneaky and subtle. The sixties weren't that long ago.

That's really strange, in my history class we spent a long time focusing on Mexico and South America as well as Africa. Almost none of it had anything to do with 'white generals' we may have mentioned Lee and Grant, and I think they talked about Beauregard once, but nothing like an in depth study would reveal.

I don't really care if they have white history month, or male history month in other countries, I'm talking about America. This country is based off of equality.

I couldn't care less that whites happened to be the ones who built the majority of what the people who designate the cirriculum deem important, that's the way things played out, sorry. That doesn't mean that we're not deserving of a time during the year when we should be recognized just as other ethnicities are.

When it comes to cultural nakedness, that's sort of what happens when you immigrate to another country. At school they try to make us culturally diverse by spending a lot of time and money drilling it into our heads that we have to be. It's stupid, and it's a waste of time. I may not know everything about the cultural rituals of Peru, but guess what, I'm not fom Peru and I'm never going there.

You can call me an igonrant American all you want, but I also don't think it's fair that so many people are required to speak Spanish now in order to get any kind of job. From 1880 - 1920 Millions upon Millions of people came here from Europe, and they all had to learn to speak English, that's just the way things go.

On another note, you think that history is prejudiced because they don't focus on countries that weren't doing anything during the time of the Roman empire? Or during World War 1, or World War 2? That was the major event of the time, they can only cover so much, so it only makes sense to cover the most world shaping, important events.

riz
02-16-2006, 07:26 AM
You can call me an igonrant American all you want, but I also don't think it's fair that so many people are required to speak Spanish now in order to get any kind of job.

Dude, it's called real life. Deal with it. If you really want to complain, you should complain about how the American education system finally realized that it's better for children to learn different languages at an earlier age than say sophomore year of high school. Your brain works better at deciphering and learning other languages from 4 to 10 years of age. This is why many other countries are multi-lingual and America has this speak-only-English type of mantra that makes everyone else call us 'ignorant' or 'ugly'.

Besides, isn't this more of a Mars-Hill-ish type of topic?

Isildur9473
02-16-2006, 07:50 AM
Dude, it's called real life. Deal with it. If you really want to complain, you should complain about how the American education system finally realized that it's better for children to learn different languages at an earlier age than say sophomore year of high school. Your brain works better at deciphering and learning other languages from 4 to 10 years of age. This is why many other countries are multi-lingual and America has this speak-only-English type of mantra that makes everyone else call us 'ignorant' or 'ugly'.

That's been a problem of mine for a long time also, I do believe that they should start us earlier, however it's also not fair that English is being dronwed out in the west. My aunt lost her job in Los Angeles because she couldn't speak Spanish forcing her to move back to Massachusetts. :\

Besides, isn't this more of a Mars-Hill-ish type of topic?

Yeah, it probably is. Oops.

NightCrawler
02-16-2006, 08:06 AM
This is not Mars Hill quality. This is just being reasonable, not philosphical or theological (I don't think). Is being reasonable not allowed in General Discussion?

aliengurl7
02-16-2006, 02:43 PM
I want it to be declared by everyone. Just like how in the schools they post "Black History Month" posters everywhere, they should do the same for whites.
I get your point but if you just look at the achievements that whites have contributed not only to this nation but the world. I think you'll see that everyday should be celebrated white achievement day. and im not white and I see your point.

unshakeable15
02-16-2006, 04:11 PM
On another note, you think that history is prejudiced because they don't focus on countries that weren't doing anything during the time of the Roman empire? Or during World War 1, or World War 2? That was the major event of the time, they can only cover so much, so it only makes sense to cover the most world shaping, important events.
what about the Middle East? Muslims were influential in a lot of areas, from medicine, to astronomy, to math... because of them, we have the Euclid and other works by Greek philosphers and thinkers and writers. they (Middle Easterners) translated the documents from Greek to Arabic. many of those documents are no longer around. not to mention, the Arabic translations are sometimes better than the Latin ones that we have through other means.

do you learn this in school? no. does it matter? yes, because without philosophers like Plato, Aristole, Sophocles and the like, we wouldn't have so many of the bases upon which the United States was built.

i would repeat what people like Eowyn have said (i'm actually learning about this in my Race and Gender class as we speak), but it's been said. i will just add one more thought to it.

we cannot call our nation equal. people of color have a harder time doing what we as white folk can do with ease. we see ourselves on the screen more often than not, in a far larger majority than represents the real world. we have White Privilege. why add to it by building up a month celebrating what we all already know and learn about 9 months out of the year and see on tv every day?

(i moved this thread to Mars Hill becase it's becoming more of a debate than it is a discussion. it seems to fit in better here.)

TheFireBreathes
02-16-2006, 04:12 PM
I know, I'm not saying we should. I'm saying we should make 2 other months white history month, and mens history month.

Ehh whites built this country. I think it would seem selfish if we were to go crying to the government "I think weee need a white history month". I dunno just when I play it out in my head it makes us seem like a bunch of babies ::]

aliengurl7
02-16-2006, 04:18 PM
Ehh whites built this country. I think it would seem selfish if we were to go crying to the government "I think weee need a white history month". I dunno just when I play it out in my head it makes us seem like a bunch of babies ::]
I don't see how. Every other race seems to celebrate their own achievements but I can see how other races would call it racist but its not.

unshakeable15
02-16-2006, 05:35 PM
it is.

do you think asking someone in one of your classes, "Where did you come from?" as racist? 'cause it is (they came from their mom and dad. asking them where their heritage comes from is a personal question and not something you'd generally ask a white person). (obviously, i'm discounting asking friends. that's a different sort of relationship.)

do you think of the term Oriental as racist? 'cause it is. it refers to the trade route to Asia. using it in reference to the people themselves can get them riled up (and rightly so). i saw someone do that very thing today in class.

do you think the term for a police car, "paddy wagon," as racist? 'cause that's how it started (you could argue that it's lost that meaning). it referred to the stereotype that the Irish (nicknamed "paddy") would get drunk and get in fights all the time so they'd be hauled away by the police so often they named the car after them.

as a white person (and i don't know your race, so i'm speaking for myself), i have no idea what racism is. i don't get looked at when i walk in the room. i don't stand out like a sore thumb, yet at the same time get ignored as if i don't exist. i don't get called a "credit to my race" if i do a good job at something in school or work. i am not asked to answer any questions on behalf of my race. i don't know racism.

TheFireBreathes
02-16-2006, 06:10 PM
I don't see how. Every other race seems to celebrate their own achievements but I can see how other races would call it racist but its not.

Because white acievements ARE celebrated everywhere. Buildings named after these people, holidays, memorials. There even on our money. Why on earth would we need 30 days to celebrate them? Other races would find it racist if all they saw on tv were shows praising white poeple. Heck, I would even find it racist if I were African American.

aliengurl7
02-16-2006, 06:10 PM
it is.

do you think asking someone in one of your classes, "Where did you come from?" as racist? 'cause it is (they came from their mom and dad. asking them where their heritage comes from is a personal question and not something you'd generally ask a white person). (obviously, i'm discounting asking friends. that's a different sort of relationship.)

do you think of the term Oriental as racist? 'cause it is. it refers to the trade route to Asia. using it in reference to the people themselves can get them riled up (and rightly so). i saw someone do that very thing today in class.

do you think the term for a police car, "paddy wagon," as racist? 'cause that's how it started (you could argue that it's lost that meaning). it referred to the stereotype that the Irish (nicknamed "paddy") would get drunk and get in fights all the time so they'd be hauled away by the police so often they named the car after them.

as a white person (and i don't know your race, so i'm speaking for myself), i have no idea what racism is. i don't get looked at when i walk in the room. i don't stand out like a sore thumb, yet at the same time get ignored as if i don't exist. i don't get called a "credit to my race" if i do a good job at something in school or work. i am not asked to answer any questions on behalf of my race. i don't know racism.
Sure there are alot of terms that are racist but thats not what were talking about here. Im talking about celebrating the achievements of all cultures and races. Why should some be allowed to and others not?

korey_cooper_jr
02-16-2006, 06:27 PM
as a white person (and i don't know your race, so i'm speaking for myself), i have no idea what racism is. i don't get looked at when i walk in the room. i don't stand out like a sore thumb, yet at the same time get ignored as if i don't exist. i don't get called a "credit to my race" if i do a good job at something in school or work. i am not asked to answer any questions on behalf of my race. i don't know racism.

Heard that. Quoted for truth.

riz
02-16-2006, 10:25 PM
Why should some be allowed to and others not?
Because most of the subcultures which receive months attributed to them have not had the privileges others have had for hundreds of years. They've been persecuted (in one way or another), not thought of as important in the past, and I think it's a good thing that we realize all the aspects of various cultures since even decades ago, we did not do such a thing. Women and African Americans have only recently received the rights that those who were white or male have had. I think those who have achieved much should be recognized for their accomplishments. Because of their ethnicity, gender, background, they've had many things going against them and they still achieve many feats and become successful and impact the world. That's something.

aliengurl7
02-16-2006, 11:35 PM
Yea, I understand that but achievements are achievements regardless.

Isildur9473
02-17-2006, 07:54 AM
Because most of the subcultures which receive months attributed to them have not had the privileges others have had for hundreds of years. They've been persecuted (in one way or another), not thought of as important in the past, and I think it's a good thing that we realize all the aspects of various cultures since even decades ago, we did not do such a thing. Women and African Americans have only recently received the rights that those who were white or male have had. I think those who have achieved much should be recognized for their accomplishments. Because of their ethnicity, gender, background, they've had many things going against them and they still achieve many feats and become successful and impact the world. That's something.

I agree that certain groups have not had the attention that others have had, but equality goes both ways. You can't bring one social class up to where you had been, then disregard yourselves. Selective equality just doesn't work. It's like affirmitive action, a great example of reverse racism. Oh wait, you can't be racist to a white person.

Reeper
02-17-2006, 08:28 AM
I agree mostly with Greg here. From my personal experiences I have found that truthfully the people who are the most racist in today's world are those of minorities. *cough* Jesse Jackson *cough* That's not to say there aren't white racists out there, I'm sure there are, but I find mostly people make issues out of race that aren't there *cough* New Orleans *cough* I don't understand why we have to separate and divide ourselves based on color. We are all descendants of Adam. Why have a Black History month? Why have any kind of history month? If it is worth mentioning mention it in history class. But I do agree that if we are going to institute things like Black History month there should be other months dedicated to other nationalities as well. Anyway just my two cents.

Peace

TheFireBreathes
02-17-2006, 09:11 AM
Then you should ask yourself why black get their own tv channel

asparagus
02-17-2006, 09:50 AM
Then you should ask yourself why black get their own tv channelWell, I think it's because us crackers get the rest. : - )

skilletfreak101
02-17-2006, 10:28 AM
racist stuff is annoying

Isildur9473
02-17-2006, 10:49 AM
Then you should ask yourself why black get their own tv channel

Because BET is fine with everyone. But if you made "WET" or White Entertainment Television you'd be branded racist. :\

riz
02-17-2006, 10:51 AM
but I find mostly people make issues out of race that aren't there *cough* New Orleans *cough*
What? There was definitely an economic/race issue that occurred during the hurricane catastrophe in New Orleans. Don't deny it.

NightCrawler
02-17-2006, 11:21 AM
I'm kinda echoing Greg and Reeper.

unshakeable15
02-17-2006, 01:12 PM
Sure there are alot of terms that are racist but thats not what were talking about here. Im talking about celebrating the achievements of all cultures and races. Why should some be allowed to and others not?
i brought those up to point out that something that's not racist to you (like a White History Month) is racist. because you've not been on the brunt recieving end like minorities have (assuming you are white), you don't have the same thermometer of what is racist and what is not as do minorities who have gotten the short end of the stick. i would never have thought "paddy wagon" was wrong, but i'm sure there are some sensitive Irish-Americans who would find it very offensive if i said that around them. and if i did say it around them, it would be a racist comment, whether i meant it that way or not.

just like if i said nigger, it'd be racist. even though a lot of black guys say it amongst themselves (which i see as wrong, but that's among them, not me), if i say it, it would be racist, no matter the connotation i had behind it.

having a White History Month, no matter the meaning behind it, is racist. i'm not saying we shouldn't recognize the achievements of white Americans. that would be racist against whites; but setting a month aside for them when they already get so much is like giving them yet something else to add their large stack.

George is white and has $50; Larry is black and has $25. if Thomas, as a rich guy wanting to spread the wealth he's accumulated, gives George $10 and Larry $20. i don't think Thomas is being racist because George now has $60 and Larry $45. Larry still has less money than George.

having a White History Month would be akin to Thomas giving Larry $20 and George $20. it may be "equal" but it doesn't promote "equality."

Isildur9473
02-17-2006, 01:41 PM
So, you're saying that since we were racist in the past, we should sacrifice things? Come on, we made our mistake, and we made it right. It's just like affirmitive action, blatant racism.

NightCrawler
02-17-2006, 02:10 PM
Past transgressions cannot be undone, but do you think that continually 'paying for it' ourselves will make it okay? When will we pay off our 'debt'?

Unregistered
02-17-2006, 02:44 PM
As a kiddie, everytime mothers day or fathers day would come up I would always HAVE to ask why there was no childrens day! And everytime they would replay "Because everyday is Childrens day!"

unshakeable15
02-17-2006, 09:41 PM
Past transgressions cannot be undone, but do you think that continually 'paying for it' ourselves will make it okay? When will we pay off our 'debt'?
i'm not saying we have a "debt" that needs paid off or that we need to denegrate ourselves in order lift up all those pushed down in the past. i'm saying that since things are still inequal, since minorities still get the rough deal, building ourselves up more won't do anything but give them a worse deal. we have so much (most of my history classes have consisted of whites, with minorities coming in as sidebars or little inserts. and not because they didn't do anything, but becaus we've just kinda skimmed over them to the "more important" stuff), why do we need a month to celebrate white achievements? we don't. we might want one, but we don't need one.

i don't remember it, but a famous black leader was opposed to the idea of Black History month when it was first being thrown around. i'm not talking Jesse Jackson type leader but Martin Luther King Jr. type (but i need to ask my teacher who for sure 'cause i don't remember who she said). i think that's more along the right ideas; don't give people their own months, but just integrate the celebration of their contributions to history into the entire year. but now that we have it, we can't take it away.

Reeper
02-19-2006, 05:48 PM
Riz, I'm not sure we're talking about the same issue here. I'm talking about certain black leaders saying that the levee was purposefully destroyed so that it would flood black neighborhoods. Possibly the most rediculous thing I have ever heard.

And just a question here are you implying that only black people are poor? I don't think you are but that is what it sounded like. There were plenty of white, hispanic, etc. people who had hard times in New Orleans along with the black pop. Anyway.

Peace

riz
02-19-2006, 09:11 PM
I have idea that I even implicated such a broad generalization that isn't true at all. My point was that a majority of the individuals living in New Orleans were of African America descent; a pretty decent percentage of them were below the poverty line; a majority of them had no real way to evacuate properly in the days before Katrina hit the city. The evacuation plan for the city was horribly flawed and people did not react to the hurricane sooner, or were not able to leave the city in time or indefinately because of economic difficulties. That's what I'm saying.

NightCrawler
02-20-2006, 08:33 AM
unshakeable15, I see that it is pracitical and all. But it is on a bad principle. Good for now, but bad if you adhere to the principle. I think the black leader that you were talking about was looking at the principle (as am I) over the practicality. Which may not be a good idea....

eowyn
02-20-2006, 01:15 PM
having a White History Month would be akin to Thomas giving Larry $20 and George $20. it may be "equal" but it doesn't promote "equality."

Exactly exactly right.

Isildur9473
02-20-2006, 02:08 PM
having a White History Month would be akin to Thomas giving Larry $20 and George $20. it may be "equal" but it doesn't promote "equality."


e·qual·i·ty
n. pl. e·qual·i·ties
The state or quality of being equal.

Explain to me how certain minorities getting a history month, while the majority doesn't is equal. I don't care that whites were the ones who put slavery into place, I don't care that whites have built most of the society we live in, and most of what's important in the world, that doesn't matter.

As a white, I'm just as good as an hispanic, a black, someone from China, we're all equal. So, how about instead of glorifying the accomplishments of one race, we glorify all of them or none at all. I'd rather have everyone be ignorant to cultural history of minorities rather than having that stuff promoted in public schools, which it is over white history.

We have multi-cultural club at school. We don't have a white club. Why's that? We have all kinds of scholarships for minorities, but almost none for white kids. We have Affirmitive Action, which is racist. So next time you want to talk about minorities getting a bad deal in our culture, wake up.

Also, suppose Jim, a black man murders Carl, a white man. It's murder, nothing else. Suppose Carl murders Jim, that's a hate crime. The sentence gets much worse because it's a hate crime. Why aren't their hate crimes against whites?

riz
02-20-2006, 02:45 PM
We don't have a white club.
I think the reason for this one is pretty obvious without me having to say it upfront.

Isildur9473
02-20-2006, 02:48 PM
I think the reason for this one is pretty obvious without me having to say it upfront.

No, why don't you say it up front? If it's a white club that preaches racist propaganda, yes, that's obvious why we don't have one, but a club set aside to honor white cultural heritage, what's so bad about that?

riz
02-20-2006, 02:56 PM
The problem with your definition of honouring 'white' cultural heritage is that it becomes much too broad and expansive a category than you might expect; all European Americans are clustered into quite a large category. Irish to French, British to Greek, German to Italian, Norwegian to Slovak. And on and on it goes.

Our cultural history is also not as 'unknown' and it is also what is normally taught in elementary and high schools. American history. European history. People in the U.S. are more knowledgeable about 'white' history than 'black' history.

Isildur9473
02-20-2006, 02:59 PM
The problem with your definition of honouring 'white' cultural heritage is that it becomes much too broad and expansive a category than you might expect; all European Americans are clustered into quite a large category. Irish to French, British to Greek, German to Italian, Norwegian to Slovak. And on and on it goes.

Our cultural history is also not as 'unknown' and it is also what is normally taught in elementary and high schools. American history. European history. People in the U.S. are more knowledgeable about 'white' history than 'black' history.

Besides the fact that European History pretty much built society, have you ever looked at a textbook? My history book has page after page, and infographic after infographic about black cultural leaders, and the influence African Americans have had on the United States.

riz
02-20-2006, 03:05 PM
you ever looked at a textbook?
Yes. What a condescending question. I'm done with this.

Isildur9473
02-20-2006, 03:07 PM
Yes. What a condescending question. I'm done with this.

My goal here was not to be condescending, sorry if I came off that way.

unshakeable15
02-20-2006, 07:02 PM
again i bring up, Greg, the accomplishments of the people of the Middle East. can you think of any major accomplishments they have given to society? i can list 3 off the top of my head, and if i go get my textbook, i can list 8 more. can you?

if not, why? if yes, again, why?

also Greg, i never said having a Black History month but no other racial month was equal. all i've said is that it's one step towards building up a group of people to help them recieve some sort of equality with the rest of the world. in the same sense, that means that in some cases, we, as white folk, need to step down and lose some of the junk we've held onto as "ours" and realize that equality comes when one group stops holding anything over the heads of another group.

NightCrawler, what do you mean? i'm a bit confused; please expound upon what you said.

Isildur9473
02-20-2006, 07:22 PM
again i bring up, Greg, the accomplishments of the people of the Middle East. can you think of any major accomplishments they have given to society? i can list 3 off the top of my head, and if i go get my textbook, i can list 8 more. can you?

1. Math
2. Arabic Figures
3. Helped to build Sumeria, Assyria, and other countries that became important in the evolution of society.

if not, why? if yes, again, why?

Common sense..?

also Greg, i never said having a Black History month but no other racial month was equal. all i've said is that it's one step towards building up a group of people to help them recieve some sort of equality with the rest of the world.

They already have legal equality. That's what really counts, it gives them the same rights we have. You still haven't addressed Affirmitive Action, how is that not tipped way in their favor?

in the same sense, that means that in some cases, we, as white folk, need to step down and lose some of the junk we've held onto as "ours" and realize that equality comes when one group stops holding anything over the heads of another group.

If any one group is holding something over another, it's the blacks. When I went to elementary school in the south, I was called 'White boy', and all sorts of other things by the blacks. I never called them anything racial, why? Because if I did I would be branded racist in 2 seconds. It's impossible for a black person to be racist.

What kind of "junk" are we calling ours?

unshakeable15
02-20-2006, 08:04 PM
*goes to get books from class*

1. Math
2. Arabic Figures
3. Helped to build Sumeria, Assyria, and other countries that became important in the evolution of society.
here is a better list, one with names.

1) the first Arab hospital was established in the 8th century. the Europeans learned more effective techniques and treatments from Arabs during the crusades.
1.5) ever heard the names Ar-Razi, Ibn-Sina or Az-Zahrawi? they were influential Arab medical authors.

2) due to Muslims ritualistic prayer that is very focused on exact time of day, they made many advances in the field of astronomy. the concept of constellations came from Mesopotamia around 3800 BC. instruments such as the astrolabe, the compass, the quadrant and the sextant were all developed by Arabs in the Middle Ages.

3) we've all heard of Marco Polo (who might not have even travelled to China. but that's a totally different topic), but who's heard of Ibn-Battuta, a Moroccan who traveled 75,000 miles in 30 years and wrote of his travels (this was in the 14th century)? during his travels, he recorded observations of local politics, social conditions and economics of the lands he visited.

you're turn. :) name another famous Arab in history (besides Muhammed).

Common sense..?
...only goes so far. you can't use common sense to learn that both "admiral" and "syrup" come from Arabic.

They already have legal equality. That's what really counts, it gives them the same rights we have. You still haven't addressed Affirmitive Action, how is that not tipped way in their favor?
and we all know law dictates actions. that's why nobody steals, or cheats on tests or taxes, or does anything wrong at all.

legal equality is good, but it doesn't make things equal. and to be honest, i don't know enough about Affirmative Action to comment. i do know that the way the school system is set up that the schools in the poor areas get the short end of the stick. they get fewer tax dollars because they do poorly on test scores, but because they get fewer tax dollars they can't have all the beneficial programs that more well-to-do districts can have. it's a spiralling problem.

If any one group is holding something over another, it's the blacks. When I went to elementary school in the south, I was called 'White boy', and all sorts of other things by the blacks. I never called them anything racial, why? Because if I did I would be branded racist in 2 seconds. It's impossible for a black person to be racist.

What kind of "junk" are we calling ours?
let me quote some excerpts from an article written by Peggy McIntosh that i read for my race and gender class.

"As a white person, I realized I had been taught about racism as something which puts others at a disadvantage, but had been taught not to see one of its corollary aspects, white privilege, which puts me at an advantage."

"I began to understand why we are justly seen as oppressive, even when we don't see ourselves that way. I began to count the ways in which I enjoy unearned skin privilege and have been conditioned into oblivion about its existence."

"There was one main piece of cultural turf; it was my own turf, and I was among those who could control the turf. My skin color was an asset for any move I was educated to want to make. I could think of myself as belonging in major ways, and of making social systems work for me."

"[Oppresssions] take both actives forms wich we can see and embedded forms which as a member of the dominant group one is taught not to see. In my class and place, I did not see myself as a racist because I was taught to recognize racism only in individual acts of meanness by members of my group, never in invisible systems of conferring unsought racial dominance on my group from birth."

-------------

here is a list of some of the things the author lists as white privilege.

1. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors will be neutral or pleasant to me.
2. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
3. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
4. Whe I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
5. I can swear, or dress in secondhand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.
6. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
7. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
8. I can choose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

that is some of the junk that we "hold" over people of color.

Mr. Xcitement
02-21-2006, 01:46 AM
*goes to get books from class*
here is a list of some of the things the author lists as white privilege.

1. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors will be neutral or pleasant to me.
2. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
3. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
4. Whe I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
5. I can swear, or dress in secondhand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.
6. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
7. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
8. I can choose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

that is some of the junk that we "hold" over people of color.

Whites having an advantage is only true in white neighbor hoods. I worked at a store that was mainly of african-american (which I don't like that name, because they are american regardless of skin color), and other minorities. The management was made of 2 white men, one woman and an Irish man. Now in my department we had a guy that was hired who was a minority, he was late every day, skipped work without calling 3 times, threatened to do physical harm to me, sexually harassed women there by touching and calling names, and yet they let him do this from the day he was hired and for another 4 months, before he quit. I was late once, and I was written up, what does that say? And it wasn't just a single situation that happened, I went through many different associates in my department that would either shove all the work off onto me, damage company property, and do other things against company rules, yet they wouldn't get in trouble, but if I ever stepped out of line by asking managment what they would do about it, I would get yelled at. As in the case of the gentleman that threatened me, I had called the companies home office about the situation, and later on, my Human Resource person told me that I did the WRONG thing, because they were going to have "things work themselves out" The only way to explain why the management allowed these things to go on, was because these people were minorities, in a city of mainly minorities, and I was always pushed to the side, wasn't allowed a supervisor job, got lower raises, and had to do almost all the work.

Reeper
02-21-2006, 04:15 AM
The other thing I liked about your list there Mike is how the author says she will never be asked to speak for her entire racial group while she is in the process of doing it. Not to mention all those "advantages" are gross generalizations.

Peace

unshakeable15
02-21-2006, 12:08 PM
i'm not saying all of those assumptions are correct. there were others that i didn't agree with and, yes, they are assumptions. but at the same time, there are nuggest of truth in them. i can't remember the last time someone asked me about something in my culture (and by that i mean either Scottish, German or English) but i'm tempted (and if i wasn't so introverted or realized that it's wrong to do so, i would) to ask someone of color to explain bits of their culture to me. it doesn't matter that "their culture" may very well be American. that they may be a third generation American.

Nick, never have i said that things aren't unfair the other way as well. they obviously are. but overall, if you take the aggregate of our culture as a whole, things are tilted our direction, the white direction (how else do you explain the fact that despite being passed over for promotion by non-whites, in a community with a majority of non-whites, the two managers are white?)

i am NOT trying to tilt the scales and say that we need to make up for hundreds of years of inequity by making ourselves scum and making kings of the minorities. i AM saying that we get enough recognition without having to make a month out of it.

NightCrawler
02-21-2006, 06:10 PM
Okay, interesting point.

What happened in 1867 in Japan?

Now, minorities from Japan would really want to know that. That was when they had a revolution/government change. They got rid of the samurai.

However, the majority of USA isn't from Japan. Yet they still want history, so... we get stuph from the England and other european countries. The Renessence (sp?) and stuph.

So, I can see how people benefit from this... the practicality over the issue (not giving EVERYONE their own heritage and stuph through school).

But the principle, elevating specific minorties into the limelight... THAT I don't like. It further points out the idea that there are distinctions because of race. We can't drop it, that reinforces it.

And it doesn't help that we can't cover every culture and history either.


Now, my counter argument for majority-minority issues.

When you vote, who gets the special treatment? The majority.

skilletfreak101
02-22-2006, 01:34 PM
i want my algebra!

bob
02-22-2006, 04:34 PM
When you vote, who gets the special treatment? The majority.

What candidate in their right mind would try to garner the minorities support? That's why they're minorities. I fear a political discussion coming on. Fortunantly for the US there has always been somewhat of a majority so you don't have that coalitioning junk that has been going on in Europe.

asparagus
02-23-2006, 09:30 AM
What candidate in their right mind would try to garner the minorities support? That's why they're minorities. I fear a political discussion coming on. Fortunantly for the US there has always been somewhat of a majority so you don't have that coalitioning junk that has been going on in Europe.James...you are prehaps overly simplistic at times. There are significant advantages to having a multi-party system.

Reeper
02-23-2006, 09:40 AM
"It's a two party system, go ahead throw you vote away."

TheFireBreathes
02-23-2006, 10:18 AM
If any one group is holding something over another, it's the blacks.


Ok, that may have happend a few times at your school. But can you prove to me that that is really a fact?

riz
02-23-2006, 10:45 AM
"It's a two party system, go ahead throw your vote away."

Which is why I don't particularly like the 'two-party' system we have. It's a big problem. There should be more than one or two major parties; that way we can avoid this 'lesser-of-two-evils' garbage we had last presidential election. Right now many people feel that it's democrat or republican, or nothing. Which is false.

bob
02-23-2006, 11:21 AM
You can hate the two-party system all you like, but it will remain the same for probably a couple hundered years . . .

Isildur9473
02-23-2006, 12:47 PM
Ok, that may have happend a few times at your school. But can you prove to me that that is really a fact?

Can you give me an example of the whites doing that in recent days?

NightCrawler
02-23-2006, 01:44 PM
You can hate the two-party system all you like, but it will remain the same for probably a couple hundered years . . .
That depends. Politics in general change somewhat over a few decades typically.

On top of that, you'd have to find a good division of the parties. If you split just 1 party (republican or democrat) you'd find that the one that wasn't split would win because the voting ratio would be 2:1:1. People don't want to take such a risk, so I don't know how it will happen.

TheFireBreathes
02-23-2006, 02:32 PM
Can you give me an example of the whites doing that in recent days?


Ive seen whites do it and Mexicans. You were making an overstatement on the fact that only blacks did it.

disciple
02-23-2006, 02:39 PM
Can you give me an example of the whites doing that in recent days?
I've heard so much racial egotism/slander in playing SOCOM 2 & 3, it was almost discouraging enough to stop playing the game. (Usually the people dishing it out are terrible at the game.)

I hear the term "white supremacy" from time to time. I hear a lot of white people slandering black people. Less often, I'll hear a black person or two slandering white people. Even less often, I'll hear someone calling another player a "Jew" (I still don't understand it, but maybe in the mind of an anti-semite or something...). You get everything from the KKK to gangs playing SOCOM online.

TheFireBreathes
02-23-2006, 03:33 PM
I've heard so much racial egotism/slander in playing SOCOM 2 & 3, it was almost discouraging enough to stop playing the game. (Usually the people dishing it out are terrible at the game.)

I hear the term "white supremacy" from time to time. I hear a lot of white people slandering black people. Less often, I'll hear a black person or two slandering white people. Even less often, I'll hear someone calling another player a "Jew" (I still don't understand it, but maybe in the mind of an anti-semite or something...). You get everything from the KKK to gangs playing SOCOM online.


Yeah youre right. People do brake out an say a lot of that stuff in online gaming/chat rooms.

Isildur9473
02-23-2006, 07:21 PM
Ive seen whites do it and Mexicans. You were making an overstatement on the fact that only blacks did it.

I said that blacks did it the most, I never said that other racial groups didn't do it. So, you've seen some people do it. I've seen some people do it too. As you pointed out, we both have no evidence as to which happens more on a large scale.

unshakeable15
02-23-2006, 09:28 PM
That depends. Politics in general change somewhat over a few decades typically.

On top of that, you'd have to find a good division of the parties. If you split just 1 party (republican or democrat) you'd find that the one that wasn't split would win because the voting ratio would be 2:1:1. People don't want to take such a risk, so I don't know how it will happen.
agreed. not much more to say there.

except that for those interested in a multiple party system, check out Israel. they have one that seems to work pretty well for them. if it would work for us is up for debate. but not this thread.

TheFireBreathes
02-24-2006, 02:05 PM
I said that blacks did it the most, I never said that other racial groups didn't do it. So, you've seen some people do it. I've seen some people do it too. As you pointed out, we both have no evidence as to which happens more on a large scale.

Ok well the only group you mentioned was blacks so I just assumed you thought they were the only one. Sorry.

lamb_servant72
04-05-2006, 06:26 AM
I wonder sometimes if "Black History Month", among other things, doesn't foster inequality. How can I teach my children that we are equal with all races if we seperate races in this way? Why not study Harriet Tubman, Martin Luther King, and others when you come to that part of history? I feel like this would address the problems and mistakes from the past, but wouldn't continue the segregation, which to me, is what "Black History Month" does.

I agree with what someone else said about the term "African-American". If I were black, I think I would be offended by this term. I am an American. I feel like that term fosters racism.

Yesterday, when I was at the "Christian" book story (only one in town), I felt sick to my stomach when I realized that all of the CD's on the front of the shelf were by "white" people. I had to walk behind the shelf and look at the side that faced the back wall to view the "black" artists. I was so shocked, I left the store. Now, I wish I would have said something.

It wasn't about the genre, either. They had worship mixed with rap.

I thought about calling the store this morning, but I'm thinking of getting some reaction from others in the community, so it won't be just me.