Jesus_Skater
03-13-2006, 01:21 PM
With the way the world is going today, it makes you think a little... we are definitly in the final years... but the thing is how is it going to end? i have my own opions and beliefs but there is no one who really knows for sure (exept for God) it will be interesting to see where this goes, how does all of you think things will go down?

terrasin
03-13-2006, 01:34 PM
The world has been like this for generations over spans of thousands of years. We've always had war, famine, natural disasters. The only thing that has changed is the media has gotten better. We are able to see these things happining on a daily basis on our TVs rather than hearing about it years later by a traveler who heard from his brother who heard from a sailor who knew a barmaid who overheard a soldier talking about a wench he was with who heard from another man that there was an earthquake in India 5 years ago.

I don't believe we've seen "signs of end times" and I don't think it's coming soon. But that's just me. :)

CJ

aliengurl7
03-13-2006, 01:46 PM
There will be signs that point that were in the end times. Alot of events have to take place before it happens. The bible gives us insight on what we should be keeping a eye out for. Peace in the middle east(peace treaty has to be signed and kept),rebuilding of the temple(solomon's temple maybe?), more false prophets pop up, antichrist sits in the holy place and declares that he is God,famines,pestilences,wars(third world war), and the list of things go on. Keep watch.

Jesus_Skater
03-13-2006, 01:53 PM
the middle east thing... the stuff that is all going on now, with iraq now becoming democratic and everything else, once the us all pulls out, what happens iraq a newly formed democratic nation, and oil... soon to be pratically the worlds most valuable substance... whats better for the economy than that? and with all the stuff thats happend, i believe in it all, russia will in some way shape or form try and take that, which obviously we arnt going to allow anyone to do that since we made iraq what they are now, we will go in to try and save them only to cause a ripple effect with other nations... then the antichrist will rise and end the war and bring peace, leading all the way up to the rapture and the glorious return of our lord and savior

Isildur9473
03-13-2006, 01:54 PM
You believe that Russia is going to try something? Russia is a burned out Communist nation that's halfway inbetween Democracy and it's former glory as the Soviet Union. A lot of the government is corrupt, they're barely organized enough to defend themselves. If you want to worry about a very powerful country doing something, worry about China.

As for the end times, I agree with everything CJ has said.

skilletfreak101
03-13-2006, 02:58 PM
ever since Jesus Christ said, "I will return," we have been in the end times. So that's like over 2,000 years. The Bible also says that Jesus Christ will come "suddenly," so instead of us wondering when He's going to come back, we should focus on getting our lives right with God.

sky_flashings
03-13-2006, 06:58 PM
Agreed. People waste too much time on "Are we living in the end times?" and "When will Jesus come back?". It's not about that, really. We shouldn't be so concerned with those things, but rather with what we should be doing. I believe we should all just assume Jesus is coming back tomorrow or whatever, and live our lifes as if there will be no tomorrow, not holding back what our lives should be showing people. It shouldn't be about our guesses into these matters we can't understand, but making sure that we're doing what should be our everyday goal to show people Jesus.

Jesus_Skater
03-14-2006, 04:18 AM
amen to that... he is right... live like their is no tomorrow!

sky_flashings
03-16-2006, 02:01 PM
amen to that... he is right... live like their is no tomorrow!
I hope you weren't talking about me... :-\

alorian
03-19-2006, 04:22 PM
Nobody knows. Only the Father. Could be in three, two, one................ one/half? one/quarter? ........ darn. Or it could be another millenia, who knows? (Look at everything CJ said) Live your life as you should and you will have no need to worry.

skilletfreak101
03-19-2006, 05:39 PM
Nobody knows. Only the Father. Could be in three, two, one................ one/half? one/quarter? ........ darn. Or it could be another millenia, who knows? (Look at everything CJ said) Live your life as you should and you will have no need to worry.
yes...who cares when Jesus comes back? we are winning either way.

alorian
03-19-2006, 07:37 PM
We will win either way :)

TheFireBreathes
03-19-2006, 07:57 PM
The thing that really bugs me is the world has gotten into this "habit" I guess where no one believes anything anyone sais. Their always has to be some kind of proof or sources on everything. Where has all of the trust gone? How is anyone going to know when the anti Christ comes if no one will believe it? Why do we automatically believe the prophets of the Bible yet if we were to see a prophet at church or somewhere or even some crazy for god prophet teaching on the streets people will just go "Oh that mans a fake" (who actually was teaching the word of god?) I'll probably need my sourses for that too...

terrasin
03-19-2006, 08:27 PM
The reason is that there is so much false information floating around, so many lies, in a world flooded by deciet and a religion flooded with hypocracy, that it's hard to tell who is real and who is a fraud... and sadly enough, I've seen more frauds in Christianity than I see people who are genuinely real.

CJ

disciple
03-19-2006, 08:36 PM
Mankind, since the Resurrection, has been trying to set a date for the End Times. Since there have been numerous failures and wrongly set dates since then, Christians have become more general in doing so.

amodman
03-19-2006, 08:43 PM
I mostly agree with what CJ said. Sure, the world has craploads of problems it didn't used to have, but it's also got even more that's always had, and a number it doesn't have anymore! Lol. The only 'evidence' I think I could trust in is direct spiritual guidance, none of this literal observation hogwash.

Personally, the only "physical" (spiritual in a sense, as well, though)evidence I might be convinced of the end times approaching is, well, Aliens. That may sound odd, but more or less, I'm concerned with how well accepted the possibility that they exist (and are not demons) and the fact that among "believers" of extra terrestials they say the alien spawn they sometimes have are "sighted" ont he UFO's as giant humans with six fingers and six toes, aka, Nephilim. It says (somewhere, dangit!) that the end days will be like the days of Noah (the Flood was brought due to the inter-breeding of Angels and men and Nephilim across the face of the Earth). Those things put together with the question of what if "Aliens" were accepted enough in the world to "introduce themselves" to humanity? Just a personal idea I have of what things could possibly happen...

Of course, against my very own idea, I doubt that'd be the first time such a thing had happened. After all, we have mention in the Bible of whole peoples of Nephilim that the Hebrews were commanded by God to wipe out. So, obviously, be it demons, new fallen angels, what have you, Nephilim have never stopped being procreated. And then there's also been the studies done by archaelogists of how certain ancient cultures may have been ruled over by extra terrestial beings. Of course, I usually think they're arguments are ridiculous and false, but if any of them were right about any particular culture...I suppose it could be true (of demons). But finally, were such a thing to happen today, with our levels of communication, it would very well have to be near global for "Aliens" to introduce themselves to whole people...

I think, right there, I will digress. I'm not sure how on topic I am (if I ever was). You just got me typing you diry dirty...somethings, lol. Notice, I didn't make any definite conclusions (there are none), just left some food for thought...

aliengurl7
03-19-2006, 09:09 PM
yes...who cares when Jesus comes back? we are winning either way.
Yet, Jesus says to be watchful and to look for the signs of His return. Every christian should be looking forward to the return of Christ. Its not about winning and how can we be winning its not a football game. Just look at this world and tell us why we're winning?

Jesus_Skater
03-20-2006, 05:03 AM
Yet, Jesus says to be watchful and to look for the signs of His return. Every christian should be looking forward to the return of Christ. Its not about winning and how can we be winning its not a football game. Just look at this world and tell us why we're winning?
yes, that is true... it isnt about how we can win because we have already won, its a matter of awaiting the trophy

TheFireBreathes
03-20-2006, 01:51 PM
yes, that is true... it isnt about how we can win because we have already won, its a matter of awaiting the trophy

Umm not quite. God still wants us to keep fighting and spreading the word regardless if we have won or not.

skilletfreak101
03-20-2006, 03:18 PM
Yet, Jesus says to be watchful and to look for the signs of His return. Every christian should be looking forward to the return of Christ. Its not about winning and how can we be winning its not a football game. Just look at this world and tell us why we're winning?
yeah you kinda took my words wrong but yeah i agree with what you're saying. when i say not caring when He comes back...i mean just worry about getting right with Him...don't ponder on when He's returning because that's kindof a waste of time. we can be excited for it...but we can't exactly worry about it.

alorian
03-20-2006, 05:26 PM
I mostly agree with what CJ said. Sure, the world has craploads of problems it didn't used to have, but it's also got even more that's always had, and a number it doesn't have anymore! Lol. The only 'evidence' I think I could trust in is direct spiritual guidance, none of this literal observation hogwash.

Personally, the only "physical" (spiritual in a sense, as well, though)evidence I might be convinced of the end times approaching is, well, Aliens. That may sound odd, but more or less, I'm concerned with how well accepted the possibility that they exist (and are not demons) and the fact that among "believers" of extra terrestials they say the alien spawn they sometimes have are "sighted" ont he UFO's as giant humans with six fingers and six toes, aka, Nephilim. It says (somewhere, dangit!) that the end days will be like the days of Noah (the Flood was brought due to the inter-breeding of Angels and men and Nephilim across the face of the Earth). Those things put together with the question of what if "Aliens" were accepted enough in the world to "introduce themselves" to humanity? Just a personal idea I have of what things could possibly happen...

Of course, against my very own idea, I doubt that'd be the first time such a thing had happened. After all, we have mention in the Bible of whole peoples of Nephilim that the Hebrews were commanded by God to wipe out. So, obviously, be it demons, new fallen angels, what have you, Nephilim have never stopped being procreated. And then there's also been the studies done by archaelogists of how certain ancient cultures may have been ruled over by extra terrestial beings. Of course, I usually think they're arguments are ridiculous and false, but if any of them were right about any particular culture...I suppose it could be true (of demons). But finally, were such a thing to happen today, with our levels of communication, it would very well have to be near global for "Aliens" to introduce themselves to whole people...

I think, right there, I will digress. I'm not sure how on topic I am (if I ever was). You just got me typing you diry dirty...somethings, lol. Notice, I didn't make any definite conclusions (there are none), just left some food for thought...

Nobody yet has responded to this. Find me some biblical proof please. I'd look myself, were I not busy

amodman
03-20-2006, 05:53 PM
Nobody yet has responded to this. Find me some biblical proof please. I'd look myself, were I not busy

Now you're making me do stuff, man! ;) Just what, particularly, are you lookin' for? Proof on Nephilim, proof on their existence pre-flood, post-flood? Reference to their existence being the cause of the flood, reference to end days being like in Noah's time? I can probably find ya any o' those, though Alien and archaelogical stuff requires Googling. I've seen it online/on tv, but I've never bookmarked it or recorded it, lol.

alorian
03-20-2006, 05:58 PM
Heh. "Yes" to all those, find me verses :P since you can

amodman
03-20-2006, 08:09 PM
Well, firstly, there's the Genesis 6 verses describing what the Nephilim are. The Old KJV phrases it -

"1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. "

120 years, I should note, is often misconceived to mean that God was shortening man's lifespan, which is wrong. That was essentially the amount of time he allotted left before the Great Flood (which consequnetially would decrease man's lifespan).
For another wording of the description of the Nephilim, I'll refer you to the NIV -

"4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."

I've seen other translations, as well (not to mention the many, many debates on the accuracy of ANY of them! lol), but often I find their wordings a bit more sketchy and off, even if more exact in places, so I generally don't use them as much as the more general KJV and NIV. Anyways, the ultimate interpretation usually is that the Nephilim were a giant, violent people who were skilled in battle (which made them men of legend to many people pre and post flood) and this verse shows us how they originated. In fact, God was so upset about it, he numbered the days of man upon the face of the Earth! In fact, after he did so, he looked upon his Creation and saw the evil in their hearts. They were sinning with no regard for God, on top of fornicating an entirely new people devoid of any Godly origins (an ultimate sin). Verses 11 and 12 say -

"11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth."

NIV simply says that all people on Earth had "corrupted their ways," but KJV's specific reference to flesh (the same as the wording to God's reaction to man's fornication with fallen) shows, I think, that the Nephilim's procreation and spread throughout humanity was a primary cause to the Earth's defilement. In fact, it seems, Noah and his family is the only un-corrupted family on Earth. All others, I imagine, besides being sinful in general, had fornicated with the fallen. Sure, Bob and Mary might not have, but Bob's father did, and Bob's half brother was a Nephilim (silly example there), but sexual purity and family relations are important to God, and rightly so. These are channels through which generational sin is communicated, but that an entirely different topic, heh. End statement - Noah's family was clean, pure, and walked in God's ways.

Unfortunately, there are only two places in the Bible where the word Nephilim (a Hebrew word for Giant) is specifically used, but I'll refer you to the second now. That is in the story of when Moses sent 12 men to spy out the land of Canaan. They found the land was exceedingly good, but 10 of the 12 (Joshua and Caleb being the exceptions) were afraid to go there because -

"32b All the people we saw there are of great size. 33 We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them." (Numbers 13)

A bit exaggerated, perhaps, but these spies of Moses claimed these people were of particlarly giant stature, and were to be feared. Sure, an argument could be made that just because these people were giants doesn't mean they were -Nephilim-. After all, I just said these were the only verses that used that exact word, yes? Well, my point to that is this, Genesis already stated the Nephilim existed before and after the Flood (though clearly were prevalent across the face of the Earth before). Secondly, who wrote Genesis and Numbers? Numbers was Moses, and Genesis has often been assumed to be as well (I actually don't know why, lol, just is I guess...). In any case, Moses or not, chances are, language and choice of phrasing in writing changed (this is by no means any official doctrine I've heard, just my opinion). There's numerous references to giants throughout the Bible (this is where we get the six fingers/six toes thing), and, in every instance, it is always a people the Hebrews are commanded by God to completely and utterly destroy, regardless. Pretty harsh, isn't it? Some random example of giants the Hebrews ran across (and destroyed) -

1 Samuel, 17:4 "And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span."

Deuteronomy 2 "20(That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims;
21 A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the LORD destroyed them before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead:
22 As he did to the children of Esau, which dwelt in Seir, when he destroyed the Horims from before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead even unto this day"

Deuteronomy 3 "3 So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining.
4 And we took all his cities at that time, there was not a city which we took not from them, threescore cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan.
5 All these cities were fenced with high walls, gates, and bars; beside unwalled towns a great many.
6 And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.
7 But all the cattle, and the spoil of the cities, we took for a prey to ourselves.
[...] 11 For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man." (The same king is re-mentioned in Joshua 12:4 and 13:12 as a remnant of the giants, and a king which the Hebrews 'smote')

2 Samuel 21 "16 And Ishbibenob, which was of the sons of the giant, the weight of whose spear weighed three hundred shekels of brass in weight, he being girded with a new sword, thought to have slain David.
17 But Abishai the son of Zeruiah succoured him, and smote the Philistine, and killed him. Then the men of David sware unto him, saying, Thou shalt go no more out with us to battle, that thou quench not the light of Israel.
18 And it came to pass after this, that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob: then Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Saph, which was of the sons of the giant.
19 And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
20 And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.
21 And when he defied Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimeah the brother of David slew him.
22 These four were born to the giant in Gath, and fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants."(Notice, these giants were all of the 'giant of Gath,' the same as Goliath. I guess you could consider them a 'clan' of Nephilim? Heh 1 Chronicles 20 gives, basically, this exact same account. In fact, take out the word four in verse 22 there, and it's the exact same wording in 1 Chronicles 20:8 )

Anyways, as you can see, lotsa giants got killed in the establishment of Israel. Assumedly, all Nephilim. I'm sure they may be more references in the Old Testament, but I dun' feel like looking for more atm, heh. As for End Times being 'As The Days of Noah,' that comes from Matthew 24 -

"35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

While the primary message here seems to be no one's going to know their world is about to end until, well, it ends, but what is all this giving into marriage business? As far as I'm concerned, the implicit message here is literally that the world will be like the days of Noah. Just like how humanity merrily married and interspersed with the fallen, Nephilim will again be procreated, and, even accepted, across the Earth. I'll stop there for now. Make of it what you will.