Ok, I'm am about 100% positive I am going to strike a nerve. That's ok, though because Paul did everywhere he went too. I'm no Paul, but I do have an opinion on these stories.

I understand many Christians love this series, books and movies. I understand that it is supposed to be based on a christians writings, etc., etc. I am in no way a person who judges with harshness, rather I judge in the manner I want to be judged, mercy & kindness.

My question is this: Is the Lord of the Rings really something chrisitians should be involved in? I know many people will say of course because it's about yada yada yada, but again let me reitterate my question. Has anyone walked out of the movie theatre giving their hearts to Jesus? I know people don't normally do that, but if someone wants to defend a movie in the name of Christ, then there needs to be fruit evident. In this case, people giving their lives to Him over this movie.

Again, I don't want to sound harsh or judgmental, it's not my inention. My intention is to get us to not compromise His will for us. Has watching these movies or reading these books truly helped anyone in their walk with Christ? If so, how. If not, then why as christians do we do these things?

I appreciate these boards, and I see many people saying no compromise. When in comes to certain things like this, when the topic is mentioned, everyone chimes in and says how great of a series it is. Is this compromise? Be nice to me now.

We already had a topic on LotR, but I will take the time to flame you. j/k

First off, I am probably the biggest LotR fan here. I am also the biggest fantasy fan here. When I watch a LotR movie, or something of it's likeness, I am not going so I can see an Xian movie about Jesus. I am going because it's entertaining and it's something I love. I get really ruffled up when Xians start talking trash about fantasy cause the lot of them have a metal pole shoved where the sun don't shine. It's one of Xians biggest problems today, that they for some reason, feel the need to lash out at everything trying to place a blame there for whatever. "Secular music is evil, Harry Potter is evil, video games are evil..." know what? Get a clue.

Back to topic, I don't know if there is a Godly message in the books or movies LotR. It was written by a Catholic (Not Xian, do the research) guy who loved God deeply. LotR was something he worked on with an Athiest as well. Anything wrong with that? Not really, considering he wasn't really trying to save lives with it. In fact, they thought he was all nuts for writing the book in the first place. Just like Harry Potter, people want to winge and whine about how bad of a movie it is. But what is really so bad about it? Do they complain about how bad it is cause they teach that message in churches? It stimulates childrens minds and grows their imagination. It's the parents job to teach them that it's nothing more than fantasy, not real, and that there is a greater love called Jesus.

I myself have written several fantasy novels based around the use of a fake magic (hence, the magic in Harry Potter/LotR is fantasy... e.g. can't happen in real life. It has NOTHING to do with wicca or practiced witchcraft. Again, before you insult something, get the facts), my favorite book is called Magician by Raymond E. Feist (www.crydee.com (http://www.crydee.com)) which I also wrote a screenplay for in hopes to get it to the right people.

I really think Xians are the ones who need the wake up call in this world. They like too much to place blames where it doesn't lie.

CJ

Obviously you were offended by my words. If you read my words again, no where was I being condemning. This tells me that it is eating at you. I have many friends who are christians who deal with smoking, drinking, sex, etc etc etc etc. Not once will I ever condemn them, I simply give them the Word (in love and compassion) and let God do the convicting.

If you found offensiveness in my words, read them again, and ask God if He was convicting you. There is no such thing as fake magic by the way. All magic is a counterfit of the power of God. Whether in theory or not. This is how compromise works. A little white magic to help out eventually leads to black magic.

Like I said, I knew I'd strike a nerve, but I'm just speaking bible. Look what it says in the book of Acts:

Acts 19:19 And many of those who had practiced curious, magical arts collected their books and [throwing them, book after book, on the pile] burned them in the sight of everybody. When they counted the value of them, they found it amounted to 50,000 pieces of silver (about $9,300).

Yes they practiced these magical arts. Again let's look at the bible:

I Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as idolatry and teraphim (household good luck images).

According to this scripture even rebellion is as witchcraft.
I never once said anyone was rebelling when they watched this movie, I am asking the question of compromise. Are we compromising? If we are, then isn't this rebellion? Even the new believers in the book of Acts realized the importance to destroy that which was not of God. This is my point. Are we dabbling with evil? or just plain imagination? Where is the fine line?

Actually your posts do sound quite offensive. Though I'm sure your trying not to be, you're coming off with an anti-anything outside the bible argument. You're pretty much saying that anything that isn't always about God and always aimed at saving people's souls and has Jesus in it left right and centre is of the devil and anyone who does them are a bunch of compromising rebellious hypocrites. You mightn't have intended that but it is how it sounded.

On the case of magic I think this. I agree that there is no fake magic. White magic and black magic are both demonic in origin. However you need to get to grips with what actually IS magic and what isn't
Fantasy magic ala LOTR has nothing to do with rituals or spells or the occult or demon summoning or future telling(which is what ALL real magic is about).

You quote Acts 19 "who had practiced curious, magical arts " - that says to me these ppl wished to know the future so used magic to find out what it was.

We're not dabbling with evil, LOTR is imagination, a fantasy, it doesn't exist. The fine line I don't think is the same from person to person. some ppl are easily influenced by things others aren't. Everyone needs to find their own limit on things before it affects them.


God gave us creativity, He gave us an imagination. Why is it compromise to use them?

It's not compromise to use our imaginations. The compromise comes in the topic of imagining.

I don't believe we have a strict rules and regulations we need to abide by, Jesus destroyed this notion with His actions that were perceived as breaking the law but in fact were abiding by them. Jesus tells us to abide in love.

Paul declares that all things are permissable but not all things are beneficial. This is why I am asking the questions I am. When we are confronted with something that does not build us up in the faith, is it right or wrong? This is known by God alone. My entire purpose is to get other Christians to seek what is in their hearts. Along with this, I am doing the same. If I am being offensive, then it is in the eye of the beholder. Jesus spoke many things that offended people but others were not.

He said in relation to eat His flesh and drink His blood. Many followers took offense to this and said it was a hard teaching and left. Others stayed. Why does the Word offend? It is a 2 edged sword dividing spirit and soul. God's Word is life. Where it is spoken, life comes. Whether it is apparent or not He is always working to bring new life. My words offend not because it is my intention, my words offend because the words I spoke are going against what people want or desire. This is not to critize, but to make us all (including myself) stronger christians.

I wasn't lashing directly at you, though your words were a bit offencive to someone who loves fantasy and yet, puts God above all.

When I talk about "fake magic", I am talking about a fantasy world of magic that doesn't exist in reality as in LotR or Harry Potter. No one on this planet can shoot fireballs from their hands or create a lightning storm to hit picked targets by incanting some words. No one can make the sun rise by reading a scroll. It just doesn't happen. And you could blab all day and night about how it could but unless you have some proof of that, it's all in your head and you need to step back into reality.

You also might want to research on the truth about witchcraft and wicca, they are worshipers of the land, not Satan contrary to old english beliefs. Satanists worship Satan, not witches. If I'm correct, they don't even believe Satan exists.

So the question remains, are we compromising by watching an entertaining movie about something unreal? Are we compromising by playing video games and listening to music that doesn't have the word God in it? Are we compromising when we are doing anything but worshiping? If we are that weak of followers to fall into a fantasy land of unreality, then we aren't true followers anyway. My answer is simply this, get a clue.

CJ

Yes, I am harsh, but I don't like it when people have the mindset that people like myself will fall by watching something like this. You've just questioned my faith whether you realize it or not. I don't appriciate it. Thx.

praying doesn't always build up my faith, sometimes I come away feeling worse than when I started. Does that mean I don't pray?
Sometimes when I read the bible I don't understand therefore it doesn't build me up. Should I not read then?

My words offend not because it is my intention, my words offend because the words I spoke are going against what people want or desire.

First you speak of the Word of God cutting like a two edged sword, then you speak of what YOU say. Sounds like your claiming to be speaking God's opinions when these are just your own.

My entire purpose is to get other Christians to seek what is in their hearts. Why didn't you say that in your first post then? Your post sounded more like you wish to ban every film that isn't about Jesus, every song that doesn't mention him and every book other than the bible.

It's not compromise to use our imaginations. The compromise comes in the topic of imagining.


Oxymoron of the century. To use your imagination you have to imagine. Otherwise you can't use your imagination!

God did leave some things for us to decide for ourselves, we're soldiers, not spoilt brats. He'll give us what we NEED, he gives a guideline for life. The details we work out ourselves. He plans the path, we go there, we go through different things at different times and walk different ways all with the SAME destination.
If LOTR and thel ike bother you, take no part in them.

It's obvious you do not understand the words I speak. I speak the Word and you say I speak my thoughts. Yes my thoughts are in there, but it is based out of scripture.

I didn't say I want to have christians seek what's in their heart, because the instant I do that, all I hear is Oh I love God, He loves me, etc etc. Questions posed of this nature, show the heart not mere words spoken.

As for the oxymoron of the century statement, I'm not sure I understand how what I said was an oxymoron. The topic of imagining needs to be pure. If we imagine magic, how is this pure, when magic is a counterfit of God's power?

I do not wish to ban music and movies that do not pertain to God. Nor do I wish to ban music and movies that pertain to evil. The world is as the world is. We cannot change that, nor can we persuade them otherwise, only the Spirit of God can do that. I'm trying to get christians to question ourselves as to why we do things that are not beneficial to the kingdom, but border on the occult. Do we do it out of selfishness, because we like it, or do we do it because we have freedom in all things?

God wants to raise up a generation that will not waiver to the left or to the right. When we compromise, we are waivering. So the question remains are we compromising when we watch these types of movies?

By the way, I know I won't change your mind on this, I feel the topic needs addressed. Just as John Cooper made mention about when we make copies of CD's and don't buy them, it's stealing. We need all areas of our lives exposed as to what they are.

Quite often, when I find myself doing something that may not be beneficial to the Kingdom, I have to ask myself, why am I doing it? If it is selfish in nature, then I have to get rid of it. Most of the time, it is.

As for satanist not believing in satan, that's pretty much absurd. They say that, but what in the world is a satanist anyway? The satanic bible talks about offering up human and animal sacrifices, to who? Have you ever known someone in the occult? I do. Have you ever known anyone practicing wicca? I do. Do you understand that the ultimate level of witchcraft is to become one of the 7 brides of satan? Wicca gets people introduced into witchcraft. Only the power is limited. The more power you thirst for, the more open you become to allowing evil into your life. The deeper you get, the more demonic influence you have. (or rather the more satan has demonic influence over you)

So the question remains, are we compromising by watching an entertaining movie about something unreal?


if you went on that whole line of thought, then you'd have to quit watching all movies, cuz they're not real...

i say that there's nothign wrong with the LOTR movies, as long as tehy're not interferring with your personal walk w/ God. if they make you stumble, don't watch them. but they won't be an issue for everyone. the same thign applies to music, other movies, etc.

Everyone on the earth needs to take a little time here and there to relax and enjoy some recreation. That's what this is about. But we all relax in different ways. Sometimes we play sports, painting, excercise, watch sporting events, go to concerts, take a nap, watch tv, play games and yes we even sometimes watch movies. If we take the position of only doing things that have to do with God at all times then we better not do any of the above. After all what does watching a baseball game have to do with God. I love God, and just because I love watching the game doesn't mean I'm compromising.

As far as the movie goes Lotr has no, sex, drugs, or foul language. It's one of the cleanest movies out there. There is violence but that is mostly cuz it's about a war. If you are unable to separate fiction from reality then don't watch.

I would just like to point out that, yes, Harry Potter is evil. And, no, I have no reasons to back that statement up other than I see a million of him on Halloween night who all say that mumbo jumbo stuff about mugwumps or something.
Then when I get confused by them, they teepee my house, throw candy wrappers in my lawn, silly string me until I fall to the floor and cry, and then teepee my dog (well...he seems to like that so I guess that part is okay) But still, they leave a big mess...Lousy Harry Potters

a while back you asked if anyone was walking out of the theater getting saved. first off, i'd like to say how ridiculous that sounds. there aren't many people who get saved listening to Michael W. Smith's music, does that mean no Christian should listen to it? (musical preference aside here. ;))

but on the case of whether or not it helps with one's walk with God, that's subjective. i used to watch DragonBall Z & get Christian connotations out of it (& believe me, there is no Christian meanings in it like the Matrix. in fact, it's more eastern religious stuff.) you can learn about God & Christianity with just about anything.

& yes, i have learned through reading the LOTR. the movies not so much because what i learned in the books isn't something that translates too well to big screen. but i'm sure you can get something out of it.

having said all that, it's really subjective (like i'm not saying something everyone else hasn't already said.)

I would just like to point out that, yes, Harry Potter is evil. And, no, I have no reasons to back that statement up other than I see a million of him on Halloween night who all say that mumbo jumbo stuff about mugwumps or something.
Then when I get confused by them, they teepee my house, throw candy wrappers in my lawn, silly string me until I fall to the floor and cry, and then teepee my dog (well...he seems to like that so I guess that part is okay) But still, they leave a big mess...Lousy Harry Potters



I'm sorry this is off the topic, but that just made me laugh so hard... ::)

i no im alittle late on this topic but o well.... acuatly when u asked has anyone walked about saved the answer is yes. i have a cousin who saw lotr and then was talking to my mom about it and the started talking about the relgious aspect of lotr and sure enough he began to question everything and i belive now that he is well on his way to becoming a Christan.
also lotr has much depth and stuff u will never know how much it stirred my praylife and so many other peoples in my church. someone even got a prophetic word to go along with it. God works in different ways Hes the one that created us to have wild imaginations and have random ideas to us it for His glory. Tolkien,i no was a catholic, but because of his interset in writting(LOTR) he led CS Lewis to the Lord. CS Lewis the guy who wrote so many wonderful books. On movies and alot of things that aren't like majorly outlined on what to do i think it is personal conviction and not up to other people to say wether or not another person should watch someting(like lotr) my spirtual growth rate was quicken so much because i was stirred so much by lotr(and also the matrix)cause i figured out i was prob running from my destny(like aragorn) and that it was time to fight and if i didn't i would be badly hurt(liek king theodon) i no i am ramaling on and on but like the Bible says about things being permisable and benifishal(sp) well to me lotr is very benifecal(sp)

What one has to realize in regards to LotR (and yes, the books are better than the movies, though the movies keep the spirit of the books) is that while there is Christian symbolism, and it was written by a Christian and many have taken good from it, it is not allegory. That is, it isn't the story of Christ with characters and places replaced with more fantastical ones. Parts of it reference Biblical stories, but you can't take one thing from LotR (say, the Ents) and assume since this is a Christian-themed story (and it largely is), they must be somewhere, somehow in the Bible. I don't think the Ents symbolize anything Biblical. ;p

But the theme of the story is what matters -- sacrificing oneself to overcome evil for the sake of the population as a whole. Elements in the story are good ones that might lead some people to questions about Christianity. And it hasn't harmed anyone that I know of (has it harmed anyone you know of? I haven't seen any orc wanna-bes or miniature Sarumans running around). And it's fun. To me, something that is fun and something that causes me to think over my beliefs and helps me further realize God's beauty is a good thing.

Show me where this has harmed anyone more than helped them in their spiritual walk and I'll let you say it's bad. Until then, the worst effect it can have on someone is "none whatsoever," I think. *shrug*

It was written by a Catholic (Not Xian, do the research) guy who loved God deeply.

not to nit-pick or anything... but catholics can be christians (i haven't researched Tolkien, or anythign, so i'm not claiming anythign aobut him, just catholics in general)

Show me where this has harmed anyone more than helped them in their spiritual walk and I'll let you say it's bad. Until then, the worst effect it can have on someone is "none whatsoever," I think. *shrug*

My thoughts exactly. I love Lord of the Rings. I don't see anything wrong with it, it hasn't harmed me or my friends, so I think it's fine. :)

I know the next point... and it's a good one: again the "everything is permissable but not everything is benificial." But people have said here that these books/movies have been proven to some degree beneficial. And nothing of this world can be beneficial for everyone.

So I guess my judgment call is that if it does no worse than nothing, and does some good for some people ... how can it be called bad?

Compared to the trash that fills the theaters and bookstores nowadays (and even in Tolkien's time), I would gladly have anyone I know read/see LOTR!!!!!! It has an awesome message and it actually makes you think, not just watch naked people or sex scenes or stuff blowing up all the time!! YAY for LOTR!!!! And Tolkien even consulted with C.S. Lewis a bit about the books!!!! I think that's way cool! ;D

does watching Lord of the Rings cause you to sin?

Answer that and then we can start from there.

not to nit-pick or anything... but catholics can be christians (i haven't researched Tolkien, or anythign, so i'm not claiming anythign aobut him, just catholics in general)


Catholicism and Christianity are 2 seperate religions that follow the same God with pretty different beliefs... People really need to learn about this stuff...

CJ

does watching Lord of the Rings cause you to sin?

Answer that and then we can start from there.


This quote pretty well sums it up.

This is a good post Jerid....and to tell you the truth I also wanted to make sure that LOTR was not a "Harry Potter" clone when my own family wanted to see it...i did some research on it and I felt it was good clean entertainment.

Now that being said...that does not mean that its ok for you....there is such a thing as personal convictions...if you feel the Holy Spirit is leding you not to have a part of it for whatever reason then by all means stay clear of it.

Our walk with God is not a "cookie cutter"relationship....we may have to travel different paths and what i am convicted of you may not. The problem starts when we push OUR convictions on other ppl and when ppl put you down for your personal convictions.

So i urge to to pray about it and if you still feel that LOTR is something that you should avoid...then go for it...and may your relationship with God grow and grow :)

God bless

John

I am not against Harry Potter as a novel or story, what I'm against in it is what it protrays, that you can go somewhere and be taught how to do magic, that magic is accessibly to old woman and young children alike. I have a problem with that part of it.

does watching Lord of the Rings cause you to sin?

Very good point. If something causes you to sin you shud get rid of it. End of story.

If we imagine magic, how is this pure, when magic is a counterfit of God's power?

If I was imagining controlling people's minds or summoning demons or fortelling the future you'd make a very good point, however I'm not.

I think people need to get the definitions of magic straight. Real magic and fantasy magic are two totally different incompatible things! They have nothing to do with each other. Although if some fantasy starts with demon summoning and future telling then its not fantasy magic but is a fantasy using real magic. You need to discern the difference.

I speak the Word and you say I speak my thoughts. Yes my thoughts are in there, but it is based out of scripture.

Again you're saying that what you speak is the Word of God and is therefore incontestible and we all must repent of every form of entertainment.

As for satanist not believing in satan, that's pretty much absurd.
I've actually looked a bit up on this and spoken to people who have read the satanic bible. Everything points to the fact that satanists are hardcore athiests and nothing more. They do not believe in the existence of super-natural beings like God and Satan.

I just read that bit Paul wrote on "All things are lawful for me, F27 but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, F28 but not all things edify"

Seems he was talking about people seeking their own, that whole part of the chapter is about how all foods are ok to eat as the earth is God's and nothing accepted with thanks is evil. It has nothing to do with movies and books and entertainment.

It's obvious you do not understand the words I speak. I speak the Word and you say I speak my thoughts. Yes my thoughts are in there, but it is based out of scripture. Ect ect ect


Dude, I am gonna put this as plain as I can. You need some spiritual guidence and help in correcting these ideas you have about religions, cause at this moment, you are stating false facts that you have know idea what you are talking about. I suppose because I also dress in black and wear makeup, I must sit around a pentagram and call upon the evil spirits to help me take over the world or something.

As for the rest, it's great you wanna live for God completely, but you also have a lot to learn about limitations. You are promoting a fake life that no one could possibably live. Giving every second of every day to God. We are humans, we sin and make mistakes and get distracted. We can't give every second to God. And by believing you can do such a thing, you start attacking others who aren't living by your mindset which in turn, causes some bad blood.

I'm not saying Im perfect, I'm far from it. I have an attitude that isnt the greatest at times *smirks*, I've written some harsh and spiteful songs and I play violent video games. Does that make me less of a follower? No. Take it how you want, as I said, I don't like people attacking my faith by their own opinion of what should be.

CJ

One of my favorite quotes is "Being a Christian doesn't make you sinless, but it does make you sin less" (as in sin less often). Our sin nature doesn't go away when we accept Christ. But we certainly with Christ have the ability to focus and sin alot less. Wasn't it Paul that said I do things I don't want to do. complete paraphrase. just wanted to add to what Terra was posting...

Lord of the Rings is meant to show religion, not tell it-
Frodo struggles against giving into evil, fellowship is a main theme of the books, and the existence of good and evil is imperitive to understanding the story.

Just because someone doesn't walk out a christian from the books/movies doesn't mean it didn't have a significant impact. Subtlety is often a stronger force than open evangelical testimonies.

Catholicism and Christianity are 2 seperate religions that follow the same God with pretty different beliefs... People really need to learn about this stuff...

CJ


true.. but i do know people who are catholic and christian... but that's getting off the LOTR topic

Protestantism and Catholicism are two completely different denominations OF Christianity.

There are people who take both sides to the wrong extreme -- belief that faith means you can do whatever bad you want and get away with it, or belief that you can earn your way into heaven by doing good things.

"Catholic" does not mean "not saved."

I'm speaking for the majority. 99% of Catholics are practicing catholics. Ignorance is no excuse when it comes down to it.

CJ

"I'm speaking for the majority. 99% of Catholics are practicing catholics. Ignorance is no excuse when it comes down to it."

What majority are you speaking for, and what is ignorance no excuse for?
Catholics are Christians. period

we are so deviating from the topic... but being catholic doesnt' make you christian, any more than being baptist or methodist or whatever else does.... bottom line, it's a personal decision-- do you believe in Christ?

anyway..............

Dude, I am gonna put this as plain as I can. You need some spiritual guidence and help in correcting these ideas you have about religions, cause at this moment, you are stating false facts that you have know idea what you are talking about. I suppose because I also dress in black and wear makeup, I must sit around a pentagram and call upon the evil spirits to help me take over the world or something.

As for the rest, it's great you wanna live for God completely, but you also have a lot to learn about limitations. You are promoting a fake life that no one could possibably live. Giving every second of every day to God. We are humans, we sin and make mistakes and get distracted. We can't give every second to God. And by believing you can do such a thing, you start attacking others who aren't living by your mindset which in turn, causes some bad blood.

I'm not saying Im perfect, I'm far from it. I have an attitude that isnt the greatest at times *smirks*, I've written some harsh and spiteful songs and I play violent video games. Does that make me less of a follower? No. Take it how you want, as I said, I don't like people attacking my faith by their own opinion of what should be.



I'm sorry you cannot understand my words. You may say I need spiritual guidance, the fact is we all do. I am not stating anything outside of scriptual text. The problem is, we are on a message board and I cannot get my point across. I do not walk around condemning or judging anyone. If someone wheres black and tatoos their body and has 100 piercings, I think no differently of them than I do of others. You cannot truly tell of someone's life through their outward appearance.

God has dealt with me time and time again on past ideas of religion and the way He wants us to live. I am convinced it is a heart walk. All I am saying throughout all of this is, we need to be careful of our actions so as to not cause new believers to stumble and so that we do not dabble in something we desire because we have freedom. Jesus Christ walked perfectly because we could not. Now we have Christ in us and our lives are perfected. This obviously does not mean we will live perfectly, but we have perfect lives because of His grace.

Not once did I judge anyone watching these movies. I have a christian friend who loves every last one of these movies and can't get enough. I do not understand him, but I do not judge him either. He asked me if I watched the movies, I told him no and left it at that. He understands my principles and that was the end of story. I don't judge people for their actions, simply because my actions at times are no better.

I also believe people say pray about it and if it's ok with your conscience then go for it. I agree that we need to pray in all things. I also believe that we are fallible. We can pray about something and truly not receive an answer. Then we give the answer that we want to hear. I've done it too many times myself. I'm not saying that anyone on this board has done that, I am saying we need to be truly cautious as to our actions. Are they selfishlessly motivated or are we hearing from God.

As for Paul speaking of eating meat, etc in the scriptures I referenced, you cannot only say it applies to meat. This is a heart issue. He said ALL things are permissable, but not all things are profitable. This means ALL things. Meat was the subject he was speaking on at the time, but he meant ALL things, exactly what he said.

If you or anyone else truly knew me, you would not point me out and say I am condemning or judging anyone. I am simply trying to get each and every one of us to examine our heart's actions and motivations.

Heres my take-
just cuz ppl arent getting saved after every showing of LOTR doesnt mean squat about whether or not Christians should be involved w/it. God created the world and gave us imaginations to help enjoy it. The good "magic" in LotR is akin to the miracle Jesus did on earth, it has nothing to do with satanism or witchcraft. i think maybe jerid should read the books, watch the movie, and get some background on Tolkein before you diss them anymore.

Heres my take-
just cuz ppl arent getting saved after every showing of LOTR doesnt mean squat about whether or not Christians should be involved w/it. God created the world and gave us imaginations to help enjoy it. The good "magic" in LotR is akin to the miracle Jesus did on earth, it has nothing to do with satanism or witchcraft. i think maybe jerid should read the books, watch the movie, and get some background on Tolkein before you diss them anymore.


AAAAAAHHHHHHHHH

What can't people understand?????????

I am not dissing tolkein or the movies. I am questioning our intentions as believers. I am not saying he is a satanist or practices witchcraft. These are all discussions that were brought into play after I mentioned the topic.

What is so hard to understand that God is after our hearts. He wants us to be in line with His will. What is hard to understand about that? If we are compromising in anyway, then we are going against His will. If it is LOtR then so be it, if it is drinking in moderation , then so be it, if it is swearing then so be it, if it is lust, then so be it. Whatever the compromise (if there is one) then so be it. This is what I'm talking about. Are we compromising? If in any of these these we are not compromising than so be it. I have not yet had one person say I understand what you are saying. Everyone reads the words I type and all of a sudden I am some type of condemning pharisee out see no one have fun or I want everyone isolated from the world. This couldn't be further from the truth.

I can't respond any longer seeing how I am running in circles with the notion that we need to be holy in our actions so as to not cause new believers to stumble. I wanted people to get in the discussion to examine our hearts, not destroy each other and try to defend something tooth and nail. The sad part is, the entire point of my topic has been overlooked and dismissed in trying to defend something that I never said was evil to begin with. The comments I've been making have been responses the words people are putting in my mouth.

I'm sorry if anyone took offense to this, it was not my intention. I can no longer be a participant of this discussion, even though I started it. All I'm getting is how much of a jerk I am and I want to take people's rights from them and I want to classify everyone as a satanist, blah blah blah blah. I'm sorry no one could understand what I'm saying, because the ultimate point of my intention was dismissed. David sought after God and did so many wrong things. But God said he was a man after His own heart. Simply because David's heart was right. This is the ultimate point I've been trying to make while defending the words I've been speaking.

I will not reply to this topic any longer. If someone has a burning desire to get a response from me, private message me, otherwise I'm done.

Ahhh no way I had a post typed out then it wiped on me :'( :'(

Guess I gta type it again.

Firstly sorry if I sounded offensive, you were coming off in a bad way and I didn't understand what you were getting at, after reading your last 2 posts you cleared up my misconceptions. You now have someone that can say I UNDERSTAND!

I took from your posts that you were condemning in all but name all forms of entertainment, books, films etc that aren't 100% God oriented... Which of course the only way to have that is by reading the bible.
Now I see that you trying to get us to examine our hearts and find our motives for doing the things we do. Are we doing it to satisfy our flesh? Or are we doing what we do to reach out to ppl, or to praise God or wotever other reason thats good and holy.

I understand what you meant now.

jerid, i see what you are saying now. when you first started posting, i thot (like most everyone else) that you were against LOTR. but now i see you just took the books as a starting point for holiness.

that i think is where the miscommunication came in. you wanted us to talk about personal holiness, & yet you only used LOTR as your example. it came off instead as someone who dislikes the books/movies.

now that you are saying that we need to examine our motives, i think this discussion should be re-directed. (maybe a name-change as well).

Ok.

I know I said I wouldn't reply again, but I had a couple of instant messages that really convinced me otherwise.

I am glad to know that people are beginning to understand my intent. I know I may sound contradicting, but my intent was not to offend. I will say that I was not offended at people's responses, I was more frustrated that no one was getting the meaning of my posting.

Then why did I choose this topic of all ones I could have? Well, it's very controversial. Jesus spoke parables and on many controversial topics so that people would dig deep into their hearts to find out what is their motivations. I did the same. Some are offended and some are not. My intention was to get us to look at motives.

Paul was speaking about eating meat sacrificed to idols. He said the weaker christian believes it's a sin, but the stronger christian knows it's not. I understand we have freedom in all things, but again it's the heart God is after. When Paul was speaking of this meat, it was a controversial issue. Probably not all people agreed with him, but he had a revelation of heart motives. He refrained from doing certain things in fear of offending new believers.

Simply put, God offends the mind to reveal the heart. If anyone was offended at my words, then I would suggest that you would look at your response and see if there was any selfishness in it. I do not know your hearts and I cannot say there was or wasn't. Only you can say that for yourself. Jesus went around overthrowing the money changers tables and whipping the merchants out of His Father's House. He did not sin in these actions. I am not saying anyone sinned in their response to me. I am again trying to get us to look at our hearts.

I stirred up the pot and may have chose a different subject. But now that people are understanding the underlying motive of my actions, I believe we all (myself included) can learn something from this.

I took offense not at your intentions, but the words you used that gave the topic a different meaning.
If you had come outright and said "We need to analyse our motives on why we do things." I would not have been against you but would have been on your side from Post 1.
We DO need to check our motives, one of satan's tricks is to plant a thought in our mind in the FIRST PERSON. Making us think that WE thought it. Hence deceiving us. by regularly checking our motives we could spot these and get rid of them... then again if we just took every thought captive for Christ we wouldn't have to :P

I'm just ranting again aren't I? :P

Again, it would have went against the entire point. If I would come out and say it, then are we truly examining our hearts intent. All of us want our hearts intent to be true, but if asked if our hearts intent is true, we'll reply "yes to the best of my knowledge". When we get asked the questions that shake us, that is where the intent is truly known.

This is why Jesus did not ask the rich young ruler, "are you serving God or money?" Obviously the young man would have said God. But through the path that Jesus took him, the actions of the man ultimately led to the revealing of his heart, that he indeed was serving money and not God.

I was not trying to mislead anyone, rather I was trying to get the point out that was finally "gotten" but through a round-a-bout way to see our "true" intentions. Again, these intentions are something only we can know for ourselves.

What majority are you speaking for, and what is ignorance no excuse for? Catholics are Christians. period


You are what I like to call "acluistic", luckily, I always carry a spare.

Catholicism is a completely other religion, RELIGION, not denomination.

CJ

I can understand you saying that Jesus used parables, but your not speaking to unsaved here. You're speaking to Christians, people who seek the strong meat of the word. Don't dilly dally round the point, you have something to say, say it!

You say Jesus taught in parables, but when around the disciples he explained everything.

Paul didn't send letters in parables, he used examples yes, but not all the time.

Be a bit more blunt :P lol

I think the example would have been entertainment and recreation in general. Not LOTR. We would have understood your point immediately. And the answer is it is impossible to have every second of your life completely focused on God. Although I know I can go to the Angels game because the organist plays worship songs.....lololol

agrees with TerraSin. Except Catholics are just as Christian as Baptists, or Lutherans, or Methodists.

EDIT: I mean the second post in this topic.