Shattered_Life
12-01-2006, 03:57 PM
So my mom and I got into an argument yesterday about the whole skull and crossbones thing. Basically I don't have a shirt that doesn't have a little skullie or whatever on it...and she thinks the whole thing is like, demonic.

I told her I didn't see anything wrong with it...it's not like I'm all for death and whatever. I told her the skulls and crossbones whatever have kinda been transformed from "death" to...a fashion statement. She thinks that's what's wrong- because the "world" says it's okay now.

She says she doesn't want me to be like everyone else, but that's the problem...the way I dress (which isn't "gothic" -like she says- at all...I wear a lot of Volcom, Hurley, 686, stuff like that...) IS ME. If I change it I WILL be like everyone else. All the girls especially around here where those little shorts, skin tight pants, belly shirts, flip flops...whatever. I so don't want to look like that...and if I start to take out the "me" in my wardrobe (e.g. skull and crossbones, black stuff, Etnies, whatever) I'll be just like them.

So I guess this is bringing up two different subjects...but what I really wanted opinions on was the skull thing. Do you think it's evil or just..nothing?

(Please don't think I'm like a total punk/rebel whatever!)

TheFireBreathes
12-01-2006, 05:09 PM
It's cool. I wear skulls too. I actually have a Skillet shirt with a skull in the background of it. I think you're mom has got things mixed up. I think "the world" says skulls are bad. Because look at the people who are wearing skulls in movies, they're always the bad/tough/punk rebelious people. But that doesn't mean they're bad.

I don't even know how they could be considered demonic. Because the skull was created by God...in His image, kinda.

DarkestRose
12-01-2006, 05:15 PM
This was brought up on the John Cooper thread awhile ago.

First off, I don't see anything wrong with skulls or crossbones from a Biblical aspect. Christians are supposed to dress modestly and appropriately. I don't think skulls or crossbones are threatening either of these aspects.

Second, I do not see anything inherently evil about skulls. God created skulls in people, so I don't see why we so quickly attribute images of the skeletal system as evil. But a lot of people do associate skulls with evil or death. Maybe it's because Halloween uses a lot of skulls? I don't know. I mostly associate skulls with pirates. So really the argument about the "okay-ness" of skulls and crossbones depends a lot on how one associates them. John Cooper, apparently, wears skulls to symbolize how we need to be dead to sin but alive in Christ.

BarlowgIRL
12-01-2006, 06:01 PM
You sound exactly like me. My dad says the same thing. Does your mom say that a lot or a little? If she doesn't say it that often, when she DOES say it don't wear it for a few days cause then she'll cool down a little and when you start wearing it again she won't notice as much. If this is continual, I dunno, the Bible says to honor your parents so you could stop wearing them until you convince her otherwise.But, yeah, don't stop being you.Your mom will realize that you wanna be modest unlike everyone else, you just do it in your own way.

NightCrawler
12-01-2006, 06:02 PM
Skulls are parts of human anatomy.

Don't like it? Sniff some gasoline or stand next to the microwave.


Skulls symbolize death, sin, rebellion, piracy, etc.

Want to wear it without symbolizing one, some or all of them? Sniff some gasoline or stand next to the microwave.


It is next to futile.

P.S.
Realize you, that you sound like a teen in an identity crisis? It sounds pretty childish to say "I AM ME, DON'T LOOK AT MY CLOTHES FOR CUES ON MY BEHAVIOUR!"... because well, you're asking for that kind of attention.

NightCrawler
12-01-2006, 06:05 PM
I am sure this came off a little abrasive.

BarlowgIRL
12-01-2006, 06:12 PM
just a little

kittygirl
12-01-2006, 06:18 PM
So my mom and I got into an argument yesterday about the whole skull and crossbones thing. Basically I don't have a shirt that doesn't have a little skullie or whatever on it...and she thinks the whole thing is like, demonic.

I told her I didn't see anything wrong with it...it's not like I'm all for death and whatever. I told her the skulls and crossbones whatever have kinda been transformed from "death" to...a fashion statement. She thinks that's what's wrong- because the "world" says it's okay now.

She says she doesn't want me to be like everyone else, but that's the problem...the way I dress (which isn't "gothic" -like she says- at all...I wear a lot of Volcom, Hurley, 686, stuff like that...) IS ME. If I change it I WILL be like everyone else. All the girls especially around here where those little shorts, skin tight pants, belly shirts, flip flops...whatever. I so don't want to look like that...and if I start to take out the "me" in my wardrobe (e.g. skull and crossbones, black stuff, Etnies, whatever) I'll be just like them.

So I guess this is bringing up two different subjects...but what I really wanted opinions on was the skull thing. Do you think it's evil or just..nothing?

(Please don't think I'm like a total punk/rebel whatever!)

Okay...here's one thing:
A skull and crossbones was originally a Christian symbol

The skull represents Golgotha-the place of the skull. Ironiclly, most 'goth' kids wear skulls

the crossbones represent the cross, that Jesus died on.

The Pirates adopted it, to trick people into thinking "Oh, the Christians are coming over, let's meet them at the shore!"
It was taken over.

Personally, I don't wear them. I just never thought about it, really. It's not offensive to me if you don't mean it in an offensive way (skull colecting, Satanism, animal sacrifice, rebellion, trying to look 'scene', etc.)
I do have a bag that someone gave me, with John 3:16 on it, and 3 crosses.

Tell your mother that, if she is still bothered by it, explain yourself in a non-angry way. Just *try* to tell her how you feel

BarlowgIRL
12-01-2006, 06:20 PM
It's golgotha, or some spelling to that respect.

kittygirl
12-01-2006, 06:32 PM
I just corrected that mispelled word, I think you know what I meant though...

DarkestRose
12-01-2006, 07:33 PM
I am sure this came off a little abrasive.

Yeah. I think you could have made your point with a little more sensitivity. I mean, she didn't do anything to provoke such a response.

Shattered_Life
12-02-2006, 04:35 AM
Yeah...it was a little harsh. I guess what I meant to say is that I want to dress how I like and not what everyone else is wearing...something to that extent.

Anyways, thanks for the responses- I'll try to do some convincing. Without whining!

skynes
12-02-2006, 05:06 AM
So my mom and I got into an argument yesterday about the whole skull and crossbones thing. Basically I don't have a shirt that doesn't have a little skullie or whatever on it...and she thinks the whole thing is like, demonic.

I told her I didn't see anything wrong with it...it's not like I'm all for death and whatever. I told her the skulls and crossbones whatever have kinda been transformed from "death" to...a fashion statement. She thinks that's what's wrong- because the "world" says it's okay now.

She says she doesn't want me to be like everyone else, but that's the problem...the way I dress (which isn't "gothic" -like she says- at all...I wear a lot of Volcom, Hurley, 686, stuff like that...) IS ME. If I change it I WILL be like everyone else. All the girls especially around here where those little shorts, skin tight pants, belly shirts, flip flops...whatever. I so don't want to look like that...and if I start to take out the "me" in my wardrobe (e.g. skull and crossbones, black stuff, Etnies, whatever) I'll be just like them.

So I guess this is bringing up two different subjects...but what I really wanted opinions on was the skull thing. Do you think it's evil or just..nothing?

(Please don't think I'm like a total punk/rebel whatever!)

Could you find some clothes that don't necessarily have skulls and stuff on them but are still different from what's common around you? If you mixed in some clothes of a similar style that don't have skulls maybe she'll let up about it.

somasoul
12-02-2006, 10:08 AM
Mass marketed clothing is stupid. Remember in Back to the Future where Marty is picked up by his mother, stipped down to his briefs and his mom keeps calling him "Calvin" because his underwear are made by Calvin Klein? She mistakenly believed it was his name stitched into the underwear because to her, in her 1950's worldview, had not experienced mass marketed and labeled clothing.

Anyway..........punk rockers and goths and metalheads and other assorted "hipsters", who say they hate "preppies" because they care too much about how they look, spend more time than anyone else on their appearance.

(realizes his tangent)

The Bible doesn't say a dern thing about how skulls and crossbones are sinful. But neither does it tell us to wear them. The issue of the skulls is unimportant, what is important is that the Bible tells us to obey our parents. I'd tell her: "Look, ma, skulls and crossbones aren't sinful. Show me in the Bible. But I am willing to bend to your rules because the Bible asks it of me. I like the way I dress and I think your rules are silly. Still, I'm willing to obey your silly rules because God asks that of me."

kittygirl
12-02-2006, 11:06 AM
This brings me back to a conversation I had last night, we were discussing 'scenes', maturity, robitics, etc.

The thing is...people say that they want to be different than others, being 'outside the box', but at the same time, they're just in a different one. I'm not saying this is what you are doing...but you can be different than others and not look the same as others around you without wearing a skull. I know SO many people that say things like "They're just judging me because I look different than them, they're just a prep."

But you're doing the SAME thing by saying that to them. By saying that you won't wear something because it's in style, or if someone is on the radio, won't listen to them. Being anti-scene is still a scene. Just...maybe think about it. Being kind to others, even if they're not kind back, you will be blessed.

skelfy
12-05-2006, 06:31 PM
I don't understand the need for people to actively watch what they wear so they are different from others.

Those that try to be nonconformists are the same as conformists in my opinion.

Anyway, I don't think skull and crossbones matter.

fifi la bomba
12-07-2006, 09:59 AM
i really hate the negative feeling that people give to the said skulls and crossbones. i don't have a skull tattooed on my face or anything, and i wouldn't condone small shildren wearing them, although the one-sy that demon hunter made was pretty sweet (go check it on their website. it's soo cool), but i think it's all part of an image and a person's personality. if you want to wear a skull on your shirt, just don't have f-off written below it.
if all Chrisitans wore suits and skirts all the time, how would we be able to reach the lost? not that punk/emo/rocker symbols are used as a costume to 'infiltrate' that lifestyle, but honestly, if someone had a big happy rainbow-riding carebear on their shirt and tried to talk to some hardcore people about Jesus, you wouldn't get two words out of your mouth w/o them laughing you off your invisible pony. we can embrace the hardcore lifestyle and not have to be into all the stuff that the world defines as hardcore (ie, drugs, sex, and rock'n'roll). if the lost sees similarities in our lives and theirs, like styles of music or action sports, it can really be used to start the conversation that could change their lives forever....


but as for the skulls and crossbones issue, i put it up there with tattoos: if you want to wear them fine, just make sure you're living for God no matter what you wear...

NightCrawler
12-08-2006, 02:12 PM
So no one thinks I am more of a jerk than I really am, I'll rephrase it.

Skulls and crossbones are not inherently evil. However, they have social implications. Since you live in society, wearing symbols, you cannot expect people to ignore the symbol.

See also the Swastika. If you wear that, people will think you are for white nationalism, among other generally negative ideologies. The good luck symbol (a Swastika) is not wrong, the connotations are.

So it would be best to avoid them, even if you like the look of skulls or the good luck symbol.

theelectric3
12-08-2006, 07:30 PM
i have a friend who views the skull as a reminder that the old man is dead and the new man is alive in Christ.


but i know others who do not like skulls and view it as evil too.

talk it over with your mom and how she feels, express how it feels... and when it all boils down, respect her. you are still under her roof and authority so if she doesn't like it (even if you do not have a problem with it) out of respect for her, don't wear shirts/hands with skulls and crossbones.


jonathan had some good points above too worth noting. in fact, a very strong argument, in my opinion.

kittygirl
12-10-2006, 09:58 AM
I don't understand the need for people to actively watch what they wear so they are different from others.

Those that try to be nonconformists are the same as conformists in my opinion.

You know...that's the same thing to me as legalism.
When you are so concious of what you wear, thinking because you don't wear earrings, makeup, or pants, it makes you more holy, it becomes your idol.

Same thing with having to be 'non-conformist.'
don't think too much about what you wear...

dawn of light
12-10-2006, 11:09 AM
I totally understand what you're meaning Morgan and Rachael. I think the whole 'non-conformist' movement kind of creates an air of superiority among people. I had one of my good friends continually telling me for a long time how much better her "underground" music was than my "mainstream" music because they did it for the music not the money. I felt she was telling me how much better she was because she wasn't conforming to the what everyone else wants you to listen to. Which isn't true of course, I listen to what I like whether is be mainstream or underground or Christian or whatever. It took the fun out of talking about music with her because I felt like I couldn't be excited about a new band I just found out about because I might be looked down upon.

Anyway, sorry, that was somewhat off topic. I think skulls and crossbones are fine as long as you're wearing them for the right reasons.

DarkestRose
12-10-2006, 11:50 AM
So no one thinks I am more of a jerk than I really am, I'll rephrase it.

Skulls and crossbones are not inherently evil. However, they have social implications. Since you live in society, wearing symbols, you cannot expect people to ignore the symbol.

See also the Swastika. If you wear that, people will think you are for white nationalism, among other generally negative ideologies. The good luck symbol (a Swastika) is not wrong, the connotations are.

So it would be best to avoid them, even if you like the look of skulls or the good luck symbol.

I see what you mean by how some people will intrepret skulls and crossbones according to social "stigma". So, yeah, if someone's gonna wear them, they'll have to risk that. [And I don't think you're a jerk. ;) It kinda sounded like you just posted before realizing how it sounded.]

Radical_LIFE
12-23-2006, 07:01 PM
Every body has made some really good points!

I myself don't personally wear skulls, i don't really like them.

But Paul, in a lot of his writtings said (paraphrased) "Whatever the world does, do the opposite." Example, if all the prostitutes in one area wore their hair braided, then the christian women should not braid their hair.

In this case, all of the "goth and emo" people wear skulls... and we don't want to be like the culture. We need to run from the culture and twords(sp?) God!

Also, i like the whole "new life, old man dead" thing, that's kind of cool!

Also, obeying your parents is something God told us to do, and if we don't obey God's law, then we are going to have to answer for it on judgement day.

LeShep
12-23-2006, 07:56 PM
I have a pre-teen son and hes starting to wear the skulls and a lil baggy pants, not so bad that u see his bum but loose fitting.... I think its his way of being hisself , hes not the kid that wears it to look a part or to come off as a hard core goth or bad "A" like in movies.

I think its the attitude that makes how people WEAR clothes.... I see no harm in my sons clothes as of yet, but if the haterd or stand offish or not even talking to us.. then the clothes are gone... cause then its the label people put on how people dress whether its cool or emo(whatever the lingo is.)

Quadripedman
12-24-2006, 09:26 AM
So my mom and I got into an argument yesterday about the whole skull and crossbones thing. Basically I don't have a shirt that doesn't have a little skullie or whatever on it...and she thinks the whole thing is like, ic.



well, if you look there are quite a few skillet hoodies, tees, etc. with skulls on them. obviouslly they dont find anything wrong with them.

NightCrawler
12-24-2006, 02:55 PM
Every body has made some really good points!

I myself don't personally wear skulls, i don't really like them.

But Paul, in a lot of his writtings said (paraphrased) "Whatever the world does, do the opposite." Example, if all the prostitutes in one area wore their hair braided, then the christian women should not braid their hair.
The world eats and America has a high obesity rate. I should go vomit rather than eat, for it is the opposite of eating (and overeating). You could've paraphrased better.

In this case, all of the "goth and emo" people wear skulls... and we don't want to be like the culture. We need to run from the culture and twords(sp?) God!
toward/towards*

Goth and Emo are subcultures. I would say that a bigger target for attacking culture would be mindsets, not dress or style. Mindset of pride. Mindset of anger. Mindset of coming out ahead at the expense of your fellow man. Mindset of hate. Mindset of selfishness. Etc.

When you think of it in this way, no man or culture can be attacked or stigmatized rationally. Be opposite the vices, not the culture -- because culture cannot be wrong unless specific practices are wrong and the entire culture condones, supports, and partakes in those practices. Wearing skulls is not inherently wrong, therefore why attack the culture that wears them? Attack their disregard for connotations if anything.

theelectric3
12-24-2006, 03:52 PM
well, if you look there are quite a few skillet hoodies, tees, etc. with skulls on them. obviouslly they dont find anything wrong with them.

true but that's not always best - to do something simply because it is ok with someone else. nothing being said against Skillet here... just that the mindset stated above is not the best for trying to justify something.

skilletfreak101
12-28-2006, 08:19 AM
Every body has made some really good points!

I myself don't personally wear skulls, i don't really like them.

But Paul, in a lot of his writtings said (paraphrased) "Whatever the world does, do the opposite." Example, if all the prostitutes in one area wore their hair braided, then the christian women should not braid their hair.

In this case, all of the "goth and emo" people wear skulls... and we don't want to be like the culture. We need to run from the culture and twords(sp?) God!

Also, i like the whole "new life, old man dead" thing, that's kind of cool!

Also, obeying your parents is something God told us to do, and if we don't obey God's law, then we are going to have to answer for it on judgement day.
our intentions are opposite than than those of the world. the world lives for sin and death, us as christians live for God and try to save the world from death. God doesn't really care about the clothes you wear, he looks at where your heart is at. some of the most sincere christians i've ever met have been people who were gothic or who had millions of tatoos and what not.

skilletfreak101
12-28-2006, 08:22 AM
well, if you look there are quite a few skillet hoodies, tees, etc. with skulls on them. obviouslly they dont find anything wrong with them.
well if you think about it, God is the one who created the skull and so really when you see a picture of a skull, all it is is a picture of a face with no skin :-). i have a skillet shirt that has a red skull on it and I love wearing it to church and stuff where people go "aren't skulls evil?" and i go "no, God created each and everyone of your skulls." but maybe i'm just a dork that way :-P

Shattered_Life
12-28-2006, 11:05 AM
You know...that's the same thing to me as legalism.
When you are so concious of what you wear, thinking because you don't wear earrings, makeup, or pants, it makes you more holy, it becomes your idol.

Nice. I'll have to tell that to my mom.

i have a skillet shirt that has a red skull on it and I love wearing it to church and stuff where people go "aren't skulls evil?" and i go "no, God created each and everyone of your skulls." but maybe i'm just a dork that way :-P

That's a nice one too. Good ideas guys. So far she's kinda laid off...I think she knows she upsetting me. And um, if any of you have been following my other thread, I'd be surprised if she thinks she's not upsetting me.

skynes
12-28-2006, 02:06 PM
*blinks*

I honestly hadn't noticed you started both threads...

bob
03-04-2007, 06:50 PM
So I bought this Skillet t-shirt (http://store.skillet.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=SK150) and my parents both said it looks satanic. I disagreed with them because skulls aren't satanic, heck, I have one. :P What's your take on this?

timmyrotter
03-04-2007, 07:01 PM
i have that shirt too... there was a thread like this awhile back, but i dont mind discussing it. Christian parents are weird about these kind of things, probably because that stuff would have represented something bad back then. but seeing as how its on a Skillet shirt, how could it be bad? but it is just a cool looking symbol, so anyone who says otherwise is over analizing it. ive heard people say that it represents "dying to sin," but i hold my belief, but if you want something to turn your parent's crank, tell them the "dying to sin" thing.

Laerasyn
03-04-2007, 07:12 PM
I would definetly not say that skulls or skull symbols are satanic, in and of themselves. They have been used that way, but they have also been used in other ways; in the middle ages, one famous scholar/monk/theologian (name escapes me at the moment... grrr) used one as a paperweight, reportedly as a symbol of his own moratlity. I've also heard the "die to sin" argument, and I think it makes sense.
As far as that shirt goes, I'm not sure how it relates to Skillet except for the fact that it looks cool and is typically asociated with the "goth," hard rock scene in general. Either way, I agree with timmyrotter- if it's on a Skillet shirt, it's at least harmless, if not somehow meaningful.

dawn of light
03-04-2007, 08:29 PM
I'm pretty sure we have a thread about this somewhere...

I don't think skulls are satanic at all. The bible says our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. And skulls are a part of our bodies.

timmyrotter
03-04-2007, 08:35 PM
http://www.panheads.org/boards/showthread.php?t=5694&highlight=Skull
found it

riz
03-04-2007, 08:36 PM
(sliiightly off topic)

I haven't checked the merch page in a while, and I really enjoy some of those T-shirts. The price tag is what's keeping my finger from clicking.

timmyrotter
03-04-2007, 08:38 PM
(sliiightly off topic)

I haven't checked the merch page in a while, and I really enjoy some of those T-shirts. The price tag is what's keeping my finger from clicking.

your post has caused me to check out Skillet.com for the second time since its been re-done!

riz
03-04-2007, 08:39 PM
I win.

timmyrotter
03-04-2007, 08:41 PM
WHOA! i saw something that Panhead's parents across the world will judge Skillet on! behold the Skeleton http://store.skillet.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=SK134
not a skull, but the bones of a TORSO!

dawn of light
03-04-2007, 08:44 PM
*gasp*
Oh, what evil has befallen us?

riz
03-04-2007, 08:45 PM
Actually, I didn't really care for that T-shirt as much. And not because it's uber EVILL.

timmyrotter
03-04-2007, 08:47 PM
i dont care much for it either... i only really like the one James showed at the top of the thread. most of their shirts are kinda lame, its like they are trying to hard, they should keep it simple, and not have such ugly colors.

riz
03-04-2007, 08:52 PM
I don't mind some of the more earth-toned shirts. This (http://store.skillet.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=SK105) one is my favorite, with this (http://store.skillet.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=SK132) one placing 2nd.

timmyrotter
03-04-2007, 08:54 PM
I don't mind some of the more earth-toned shirts. This (http://store.skillet.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=SK105) one is my favorite, with this (http://store.skillet.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=SK132) one placing 2nd.

funny you should say that. the first one is the one i got like 3 years back, i hated it! its ugly as sin! the second one isnt so bad, but i prefer the skull one, and the one i got with my Comatose cd.

bob
03-04-2007, 08:54 PM
I bought this (http://store.skillet.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=SK140) shirt along with the skull one. I like how the band name is so tiny on the shirt. :P

NightCrawler
03-06-2007, 06:50 AM
Fingers are satanic, as well as blood and shoulders. Heck, all of the human anatomy is evil and should be destroyed.

DarkestRose
03-06-2007, 02:24 PM
Not to be off topic, but Jonathan I think your new avatar pic is really neat!

Also, I do agree that by sinful nature all of our humanity is corrupt. We think, we do, we say what we don't want to, and apart from God, we are powerless to change. The human self is totally depraved. It's interesting to think about the human body in that same context, that it's the flesh, the sin nature and all dysfunctional.

bob
03-07-2007, 04:23 PM
I think Christians take symbols way out of context. An upside down cross for one, its a cross flipped upside down . . big deal! Peter was reported as being crucified upside down, does that make him satanic?

But yeah, skulls . . . nothing satanic about them I think. They just look cool.

riz
03-07-2007, 07:15 PM
Well, it wasn't really Peter's choice to be nailed upside down though - unless I'm really off with my history. But, still, I see what you're getting at. Quite a few people do get bent out of shape because of certain symbols that might dwell more-so on more evil or 'bad' elements. They are unnerved by them; they don't want to see or be near or have anything to do with them, which is why they might lash out and speak out against something like 'skulls' being on a T-shirt or tattoos on someone's arm.

NightCrawler
03-07-2007, 07:35 PM
I thought, according to tradition, Peter said he was not worthy to be crucified the same way as Christ.

bob
03-07-2007, 07:40 PM
I thought, according to tradition, Peter said he was not worthy to be crucified the same way as Christ.

That's what I have read.

TheFireBreathes
03-08-2007, 04:00 PM
humans are God's creation..so i think skulls would be included haha

unshakeable15
03-08-2007, 05:36 PM
I think Christians take symbols way out of context. An upside down cross for one, its a cross flipped upside down . . big deal! Peter was reported as being crucified upside down, does that make him satanic?
No, at least, not wholly.

However, there is power in symbols. Think of the cross. As an object, it is not only highly symbolic, but powerful. Why can't the same be true of other, less holy objects. Yet, you are correct in saying symbols are taken way out of context. The ultimate ability of those symbols to reign (or do nothing) over a person are up to that person, what they allow in their own lives.

Grunge=Fun
04-04-2007, 10:05 AM
What's the first thing you usually think of when you think of skulls? For me I usually think of death. It's a no brainer. Cause when else do you see a skull other then when its the dead remains of a person. It's not bad, but maybe your parents are looking at it as related to the first sin of mankind (Adam) and that your promoting sin and death. Now thats one way of thinking i'm sure none of you have taken yet :-P. And i'm not at all saying that skulls are bad.

bob
04-04-2007, 10:08 AM
maybe your parents are looking at it as related to the first sin of mankind (Adam) and that your promoting sin and death.

Yeah, but that's stretching it a lot. I can assure you that's not why my parents dislike skulls. :P They just don't like the way they look while I, on the other hand, do.

kittygirl
04-04-2007, 04:55 PM
I think Christians take symbols way out of context. An upside down cross for one, its a cross flipped upside down . . big deal! Peter was reported as being crucified upside down, does that make him satanic?
.

Alot of Satanists use the upside down cross as a symbol of mockery, and hatred towards Christianity.

bob
04-04-2007, 07:05 PM
Alot of Satanists use the upside down cross as a symbol of mockery, and hatred towards Christianity.

Yeah, and then flip it right side up and its all good again.

DarkestRose
04-04-2007, 07:08 PM
Bob solved that problem. :D

AgainstTheTide
04-09-2007, 10:15 AM
just make it easy - don't wear them lol

bob
04-09-2007, 10:50 AM
just make it easy - don't wear them lol

What, crosses? I don't. :P

The victory wasn't on the cross, it was rising from the tomb. :P

DarkestRose
04-09-2007, 12:25 PM
But, for example, I have no problem at all with clothes that have skulls or skeletal designs. So why wouldn't I wear them?

Voice of Truth
04-10-2007, 09:46 AM
Romans 12:2 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)



2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.


Biblically, I think most are correct, while attire does not particularly say one thing or another, think of this.
What message is it sending to your other Christian friends?

I am at a loss for where exactly to find this verse, but I know I just read somewhere not to do anything that would cause a fellow believer to doubt his salvation or cause him to sin.

I am not judging, just offering an idea of where your parents may be coming from, I have a 12 year old and a 10 year old at home myself.

bob
04-10-2007, 10:23 AM
Biblically, I think most are correct, while attire does not particularly say one thing or another, think of this.
What message is it sending to your other Christian friends?


When the bible mentions anything about the world don't you think its speaking about the actions of the world? Like the works of the flesh mentioned in Galatians.

The message I'm sending to my Christian friends? The message you send is all about the way you act and what you say and do. Judging a person from the exterior is a really shallow thing, although many people do.

Voice of Truth
04-10-2007, 10:24 PM
I am not at all judging anyone by their appearance. I am just saying that New Christians can sometimes get the wrong message by anything we do say, portray, etc. Outwardly. Anything that I do, say, or otherwise portray outwardly that reflects poorly on my walk cab become a stumbling block for someone who does not know better.

bob
04-11-2007, 04:04 AM
Anything that I do, say, or otherwise portray outwardly that reflects poorly on my walk cab become a stumbling block for someone who does not know better.

True enough. But wearing a shirt with a skull on it is hardly what I call stumbling someone. Granted if the skull is gruesome than that's a different story. There are so many Christians, not all of them are going to look the same.

Voice of Truth
04-11-2007, 06:57 AM
That is my point Bob. For you it is a skull, for someone else it is a stumbling block.

Basically it is not about you, it is about the person who sees it.

bob
04-11-2007, 07:43 AM
That is my point Bob. For you it is a skull, for someone else it is a stumbling block.

Basically it is not about you, it is about the person who sees it.

Okay, then by taking what you say: some people find that wearing jeans to a church setting to be offensive, does me wearing jeans to a Church provide a stumbling block for my fellow Christians?

Voice of Truth
04-11-2007, 07:53 AM
Okay, then by taking what you say: some people find that wearing jeans to a church setting to be offensive, does me wearing jeans to a Church provide a stumbling block for my fellow Christians?

I guess you got me there bob.

Would wearing Jeans to Church on my part be a stumbling block to you or possibly cause you to sin?

Romans 14:12-14 (New King James Version)


12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.


14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

bob
04-11-2007, 08:07 AM
See, I don't really know the answer. The question is where to draw the line. Modesty changes from culture to culture so I guess you just have to be aware of your surroundings before acting on something.

unshakeable15
04-11-2007, 08:26 PM
What, crosses? I don't. :P

The victory wasn't on the cross, it was rising from the tomb. :P
Careful Bob, you're starting to sound like a Mormon. :P

bob
04-11-2007, 09:03 PM
Careful Bob, you're starting to sound like a Mormon. :P

Obviously my intention. :P