SkFan1983
12-07-2006, 09:15 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XwZ11mbaXE I really love what BattleCry is doing Because just like they do I fell like takeing a stand & Takeing Action. I also think it's sad that the other group was calling us Facist a other sad thing is that if I were there I would fell like telling them to Shut Up.Because I think that it's not all about Judgeing someone for being gay but accepting Christ in your Life.

terrasin
12-08-2006, 01:37 AM
I find Battle Cry and a lot of these other mega ministries to be slightly humourous and sad at the same time. These are ministries run purely on emotion instead of doctrine. 90% of the people who get involved with them are ignorant when it comes to what they believe and even more don't know why they believe it. There is a balance missing within the structure of these ministries and there needs to be a medium built.

CJ

kittygirl
12-13-2006, 12:42 PM
umm...that's the impression that my boyfriend and I got. He said to me afterwards "Do you really believe that everyone in that stadium trusts God? I didn't hear alot of talk about Him, it seemed like Ron Luce was putting it all on me to change people."

(I didn't want to be critical, but every Christian event isn't always from God, it makes me wonder if it was Jesus' idea...) But Jesus is the one who changes people, not kids running to the stores yelling at people.

skilletfreak101
12-13-2006, 07:20 PM
the thing that bugs me is that whenever i go to ATF when it comes to town, every secular person I know who wants nothing to do with God goes to the event, and they are never changed by it. i agree with terrasin, it's more of an emotional experience which isn't exactly right

Tromos
12-15-2006, 06:04 AM
I hate to be contrary, but worship isn't a country club for the saved. It's a hospital. And all of us, saved and unsaved alike, are sick.

If they're sick and need help, let them come. They won't all accept the healing offered to them, but some will. And the point is to grow the Kingdom, not to find a reason to feel "less sick" than those around you.

kittygirl
12-15-2006, 06:52 AM
And I qoute..."Don't expect non-Christians to act like Christians."

The thing I was more or less trying to get at is the do it all mentality. Such as "We have to change the world! It's all on your shoulders to do it, God wants you for His army! He needs warriors."

Everyone without Christ is sick, that's true.
HE is the one who rescues, not the other way around. We cannot save ourselves, He changes us, and trades Christ without sin for us, total sinners.

God doesn't need you to run the world, He's capable of it on His own. But He does want you....
When really,

terrasin
12-15-2006, 08:12 AM
I hate to be contrary, but worship isn't a country club for the saved. It's a hospital. And all of us, saved and unsaved alike, are sick.

If they're sick and need help, let them come. They won't all accept the healing offered to them, but some will. And the point is to grow the Kingdom, not to find a reason to feel "less sick" than those around you.

The point is that these huge events try to play on peoples emotions to get them to say some magic words and believe they are saved. The problem is that 99% of the people who get saved at these events go back to their normal lives a day or a week later when the emotion is over. All these events are concerned about are numbers. How many people raise their hands at events who "gave their lives to Christ" only to go back to normal life when the event is over. Even Billy Graham admitted that this style of outreach doesn't work.

CJ

dawn of light
12-15-2006, 08:50 AM
Even Billy Graham admitted that this style of outreach doesn't work.
Even though I agree with you, dropping names doesn't make your argument any more valid.

skilletfreak101
12-17-2006, 12:14 PM
The point is that these huge events try to play on peoples emotions to get them to say some magic words and believe they are saved. The problem is that 99% of the people who get saved at these events go back to their normal lives a day or a week later when the emotion is over. All these events are concerned about are numbers. How many people raise their hands at events who "gave their lives to Christ" only to go back to normal life when the event is over. Even Billy Graham admitted that this style of outreach doesn't work.

CJ
that's exactly what my first ATF experience was like a few years ago. the emotions were so heavy and i thought my life was going to be completely changed for the rest of my life, but i just went right back to normal like a week later. i've talked to so many of my friends who've done the same exact thing.

Tromos
12-18-2006, 07:56 PM
The problem is that 99% of the people who get saved at these events go back to their normal lives a day or a week later when the emotion is over.


I fail to see why this is the fault of the event. This is what Jesus referred to as "rocky soil".

How much work does someone else have to do for you before you take the responsibility on yourself? Are they supposed to send Bible enforcers home with you to make sure you read Scripture? Do they need to kneel with you each night by your bedside to say your prayers?

Of course they are emotional events. They are aimed at teens and the only thing that can motivate most teens is emotion. If logic worked, being a parent to a teen wouldn't be nearly as frustrating.

ATF has done a lot of good for a lot of teens. It has pulled thousands from the edge of suicide, depression, cutting, and reckless lifestyles. Of those that were fired up the day after and quickly lost the flame, how many are any worse off than before they went. I'm guessing not many.

So perhaps you're upset that events like this say a lot about salvation and not so much about the tough choices, dedication, courage, and sacrifice needed to get there. Ok, so? The message of hope and salvation through Jesus is the cornerstone of the faith. We are supposed to lift our eyes and live for later, not for now. You certainly can't draw people in with words of condemnation and pain, now can you?

Your life comes from the choices you make. If some choose to not put the work in to be a Christian, don't blame ATF. Jesus guaranteed that Christians will suffer for His name. It's part of the deal. Again, it's not a country club. So far, it sounds like just one more way to blame someone else for our failures.

terrasin
12-19-2006, 10:28 PM
I fail to see why this is the fault of the event. This is what Jesus referred to as "rocky soil".

How much work does someone else have to do for you before you take the responsibility on yourself? Are they supposed to send Bible enforcers home with you to make sure you read Scripture? Do they need to kneel with you each night by your bedside to say your prayers?

Actually, yes. It's their job to set you up with a church group who is going to help you through those first steps. A person who gives their lives to Christ at these events need guidance as they start their walk. Sorry, but a phone call 6 months later from someone who really doesn't care one way or the other doesn't really do the trick. You can't just witness to someone and then send them out into the world. It would be like drafting someone in the army, handing them a machine gun, and saying "Have a blast". They will not survive and they will die spiritually, maybe even putting up more of a wall when it comes to religion. If you want to go around "saving" people, then it's your responsibility to make sure those people stay on the right track.

Of course they are emotional events. They are aimed at teens and the only thing that can motivate most teens is emotion. If logic worked, being a parent to a teen wouldn't be nearly as frustrating.

And Christianity is not meant to be this huge emotional event. I had a long discussion about this with my pastor the other day. If it's some emotional event that is needed to keep the interest of the person, then they will never stick with it. There are no magic words that suddenly make you a Christian for life. It's a life long commitment. And once that "magical moment" ends at these events, they will lose interest and go back to the way things were.

ATF has done a lot of good for a lot of teens. It has pulled thousands from the edge of suicide, depression, cutting, and reckless lifestyles. Of those that were fired up the day after and quickly lost the flame, how many are any worse off than before they went. I'm guessing not many.

Oh, I have no doubt they have done some good for some, but realistically, these suicidal teens you speak of are for the most part just speaking out of emotion and don't have the intentions to truly kill themselves. Read any psychological study on the topic. Teens who are truly out to kill themselves... just do. They don't spend 10 days telling all their friends.

So perhaps you're upset that events like this say a lot about salvation and not so much about the tough choices, dedication, courage, and sacrifice needed to get there. Ok, so? The message of hope and salvation through Jesus is the cornerstone of the faith. We are supposed to lift our eyes and live for later, not for now. You certainly can't draw people in with words of condemnation and pain, now can you?

Those who truly seek will seek for knowledge, not to say some magical words to be "saved".

Your life comes from the choices you make. If some choose to not put the work in to be a Christian, don't blame ATF. Jesus guaranteed that Christians will suffer for His name. It's part of the deal. Again, it's not a country club. So far, it sounds like just one more way to blame someone else for our failures.

How bout I blame Harvest Crusades then? They fall into the same silly line of events. :)

And I'm not blaming anyone for *my* failures because I'm not out to "save" a zillion people. I'm not out to save anyone, because I can't. Like myself, I went to one of those events when I was younger and not much of a believer in anything. I see it now for what it is and what I saw it as even then: A show that plays on the emotions of teens to try and get them "saved". And today just like then, it's proven to be unsuccessful.

CJ

skilletfreak101
12-21-2006, 04:47 AM
if those events truly worked...i'm pretty sure all american teenagers would be truly "saved" at this point. but like i said earlier, half the audience i ever see are secular people who don't give a crap about God and they leave without being touched in the slightest bit

kittygirl
12-27-2006, 05:05 PM
I see more of a problem not with the world, but with the church. I see many kids not being in the slight interested in growing closer to God, and trying to act like the world. When you know you're screwed up, it's better than thinking that because you grew up in church, that makes you saved.

Everyone needs God, and needs to realize it on their own.

skilletfreak101
12-28-2006, 08:10 AM
I see more of a problem not with the world, but with the church. I see many kids not being in the slight interested in growing closer to God, and trying to act like the world. When you know you're screwed up, it's better than thinking that because you grew up in church, that makes you saved.

Everyone needs God, and needs to realize it on their own.
i totally agree. when i go to a youth group or something like that, i really dig into the message and try to get something out of it and everyone else around seems to not care at all. it kinda sucks :-(

kittygirl
12-28-2006, 08:39 AM
This is just my opinion, but alot of the kids who don't seem to care...are rich, and don't have any serious problems, or emotional struggles.

People who are more likely to hold onto God are the more messed up types. Because they see that God sees than as lovely.

terrasin
12-28-2006, 11:11 AM
People who are more likely to hold onto God are the more messed up types. Because they see that God sees than as lovely.
It really depends on the person. I've met several people who do have problems and use them as a crutch in order to get attention or getting people to feel sorry for them.

CJ

kittygirl
12-28-2006, 04:14 PM
I didn't mean it in that sense...