krazykrista
01-05-2007, 09:51 PM
i havent been on this board in a long while, but after i got skillet's new cd for christmas, and listened to it, and was disappointed as well as pleased, i came over to good ol' panhead.org to see what everyone else has been saying about their new stuff. i knew the new cd would be different than all the others, as their cds always are, but i honestly wasnt expecting them to go in the direction they did...and i must say, most of it is .... well, not to my taste.
more details later, after i hear the other loyal fan's honest feedback...so, go at it.

timmyrotter
01-05-2007, 10:55 PM
Comatose has so many different sounds. but isnt that what thier name means? i dont think you can ever predict what skillet will come up with next. this is definetly thier most mainstream album yet. by that i dont just mean "non-christian" but most accepted by the masses.

Tanel
01-06-2007, 05:36 AM
Even though I really love Collide and their worship album, this one is their best to date!

Quadripedman
01-06-2007, 06:54 AM
I only have collide and comatose, but from what ive heard of their past albums, i like them the best. i really like the strings and, as my friend from school put it, "band stuff!!!" it makes their albums more interesting.

neb0789
01-06-2007, 08:37 AM
I love this new record, it is probably their best one to date. Originally, I was hoping it would be harder, but it grew on me the more I listened to it.

DarkestRose
01-06-2007, 10:14 AM
I like Comatose because I think this is lyrically one of the best albums. I especially like that Skillet has started to focus on more social issues and stuff that people face in life. I think they're really focusing in on the brokenness that people have and the hope that God gives us.

Shattered_Life
01-06-2007, 10:20 AM
I love this album. I only have Collide and Comatose too, but I think Comatose is a little "deeper" ... hard to explain. I love the string arrangements on it as well...very unique. And I like how Korey gets to sing on it.

theelectric3
01-06-2007, 04:56 PM
yes i was expecting more agressive, heavy rock. but i will say that i am in no way disappointed over Comatose. i love the ballads... and the messages found in each song.

and just because the music isn't real heavy... i believe it is still agressive and bold. (look at the lyrics.)

and as far as their looks... it hasn't really changed. Lori and Ben are just dressing more of who they are, Korey is still sporting the rock chick look and John may not be wearing plastic pants anymore... but still has the rock look going.

it's just a new season and i don't feel it's a bad move on their part.

Quadripedman
01-06-2007, 08:28 PM
yea, korey singing is pretty good. "the last night" is really good, to say the least.

Unregistered
01-07-2007, 03:38 AM
When Collide hit me in-the-face on a ride home in '05,
it gave me such a jolt I thought I'd die! ;)

I was looking for Christian rock, so I bought Pillar and Skillet after reading some online reviews.

One word! "Shredding" on guitar sums it up. Way to go !

WhispersITD kicks it hard too. Comatose gives us a dose of the hard stuff. I guess they had to mix it up a bit.
Comatose is now a favorite.

The new videos are produced and look both slick and raw.
I thoroughly enjoy Corey rocking out with the long jet locks.
Great lyrics, John. Keep on experimenting and turning on those solos, Ben.

Man we got to get you guys at the 9:30 club in DC or in
Baltimore. Flyleaf sold out a show in Nov. @ Fletcher's Bar -Baltimore, MD.

Maugrim
01-07-2007, 01:13 PM
I'd have to say I disagree. The lyrics on Comatose are not what I would call among the best. I think they are considerably more weak and way too simplified. And while simplicity may not be a bad thing, I do miss the originality and fresh approach to the lyrics on past albums. I guess one could say that, much like the music, the lyrics are very mainstream.

The new musical approach is fun. I really like the solos and John and Korey singing together again and the wild orchestrations fit right in. Now all we need are some awesome drum solos by Lori next time. ;-) I wouldn't say this album is their strongest but it's still a solid release.

I really dug Skillet's industrialized and spacey look back in the days of Invincible and Alien Youth but what they look like now is perfectly fine.

DarkestRose
01-07-2007, 01:22 PM
I really dug Skillet's industrialized and spacey look back in the days of Invincible and Alien Youth but what they look like now is perfectly fine

Yeah, I still miss the Invincible/Alien Youth days. Mostly John's hair because it was the best.

BarlowgIRL
01-07-2007, 02:28 PM
Yeah, I still miss the Invincible/Alien Youth days. Mostly John's hair because it was the best.

My friend had hair in the exact style that John had, except his was an awesome deep red.

DarkestRose
01-07-2007, 02:31 PM
My friend had hair in the exact style that John had, except his was an awesome deep red.

:D That's awesome :D

monkey-butt
01-08-2007, 12:22 PM
by no means was i dissapointed in comatose. the lyrics and the meanings, lots of great ballads. i thoughtit is great

timmyrotter
01-08-2007, 12:33 PM
i had the same hair as johns, mine was jet black though.

the rocker
01-09-2007, 05:58 PM
Honestly I liked Collide a little better, since it's a little harder, or at least there were more hard songs. The harder ones on Comatose, I love, all of them, so I'm still not going anywhere, nope.

DarkestRose
01-09-2007, 06:08 PM
i had the same hair as johns, mine was jet black though.

That is COOL! I really like that hair...

krazykrista
01-10-2007, 05:04 PM
I'd have to say I disagree. The lyrics on Comatose are not what I would call among the best. I think they are considerably more weak and way too simplified. And while simplicity may not be a bad thing, I do miss the originality and fresh approach to the lyrics on past albums. I guess one could say that, much like the music, the lyrics are very mainstream.


I agree with Maugrim. In fact, it shocked me that the majority of the people who posted in this thread thought the lyrics were deeper and better. It might be true that they deal with more "hardcore" subjects, and in that sense might be deeper...but in even that I don't think John executed the subjects well. "You're better than drugs?" "feel you coming to get me high?" ... it seems like he didnt spend as much time on coming up with the images and metaphors and things that he usually includes in his lyrics. When I listen to the lyrics and vocals on this album they remind me of young mainstream punk/pop bands. Although, I must say "looking for angels" is a pretty well-written song (except the chorus sounds odd, but i can deal with it)

And I also agree with Maugrim when it comes to the music. If you turned off the vocals and lyrics, I think its a great album. The band did a great job with what John gave them, the guitar and keyboard and drum work is very cool and solid and definitely some sort of improvement or capitalization on the great stuff on Collide.

I did dislike the music videos. Just like the lyrics, they seemed rushed, purposeless -- like they were created just to advertise the songs. In all the music videos all they showed was the band playing, and trying to look cool rocking out, with camera angles that could be called "hardcore"...but thats all it was.

Haha, and I also must say that I don't think that their look is them. It seems to me that they are yet again trying to get into some sort of mainstream punk/pop rock genre with their look. I suppose it might be them just dressing as they'd always wanted to...but that wasn't my first impression. It seems to me highly staged and fake.

So, I'm sorry for the mostly negative comments, but that's my honest opinion on this new album. I must emphasize that musically, its a great album. Its much more deeper musically, and developed and it sounds great musically. In most everything else though, I found it weak, and disappointing.

don't flame me :-\ , its just my honest opinions and impressions. i love skillet and shall forever remain faithful.

theelectric3
01-12-2007, 07:33 PM
you are entitled to your opinion. no worries.

i agree with you that it is a more solid album in terms of music.

why is it when people want to point out weak lyrics on the cd they point out "better than drugs?" while it isn't my favorite on the cd (though i love the music to it)... that is just one song on the entire cd. you can't base poor lyrics on a entire cd by one song. most cd's have a "weak" song (lyrically or whatever) on it. does that make an entire cd weak? i don't think so.

(i think comatose, lyrically, captures the idea behind what better than drugs is saying.)

true there isn't a lot of dramatic imagry...but i like that. i think some bands today are trying so hard to be "artistic" that you have no clue what any of it means. it just "sounds cool." and personally, i don't believe art should get so wrapped up in how others will view it that it (be it a painting/song/movie/photograph/etc) loses it's message. art has a message and it should never be clouded.

and if using full artistic phrases is natural for you, as a band, then awesome. but if you're using words to try and sound a certain way, then i believe it comes off as fake and impersonal. that they band is afraid to be honest with their listeners. it's a pet peeve of mine.

perhaps skillet just wanted their message to be heard... and not hidden behind 'well-chosen-artistic-phrases.' maybe they even felt some would shrug it off as weak, but they wanted the message clear (ie. looking for angels being spoken).

and maybe they didn't... just speculation.

their appearance doesn't come off as fake (i think). just who they are. so they aren't wearing plastic anymore... i remember John making a comment somewhere (i know that is vague and i apologize) that he felt too old to be wearing all the plastic... being a dad now and all.


i still see skillet as genuine in their songs and in the way they carry themselves.

and i'm not flaming you.. just "devil's advocate" if you will. and my thoughts on some things you said.

krazykrista
01-13-2007, 10:11 AM
why is it when people want to point out weak lyrics on the cd they point out "better than drugs?" while it isn't my favorite on the cd (though i love the music to it)... that is just one song on the entire cd. you can't base poor lyrics on a entire cd by one song. most cd's have a "weak" song (lyrically or whatever) on it. does that make an entire cd weak? i don't think so.
[QUOTE]

its not just that song. thats just the song that came to my head right then.
and i think there's actually more to it than the lyrics...i dont know, maybe the vocals as a whole make it seem more "fake" or "weak."

i never saw Skillet as using a ton of dramatic imagery or aristic things. They've been just real and raw. Theres something about this CD that doesnt give off that sort of aura of raw-ness, like in Collide. I'm not sure how to explain it, but thats just the impression i get.

[QUOTE=theelectric3;322875]
their appearance doesn't come off as fake (i think). just who they are. so they aren't wearing plastic anymore... i remember John making a comment somewhere (i know that is vague and i apologize) that he felt too old to be wearing all the plastic... being a dad now and all.


i wasnt into skillet when they wore plastic, really -- i came in at the alien youth CD, and even then i didnt care a whole lot for their plastic-ness.
their clothes now arent fake. it was just something about how they carried themselves in their promo shots, and the set up and make up of the shots. like someone was behind it telling them what to do and how to look to make them look cool and hip.


i still see skillet as genuine in their songs and in the way they carry themselves.


skillet's always been genuine and thats what i've loved them for. i still think they are..but i guess im saying that this last cd seems to lack something. it might be that it seems to me that there's people behind this album, from the record label, perhaps, that influenced them in some way ...

i dunno, i suppose its alright for them if they want to get in mainstream to reach more people. just something turned me off on this cd. perhaps i was expecting them to go somewhere else with this cd.
as long as they keep being skillet, its cool.

theelectric3
01-13-2007, 04:43 PM
maybe it's the difference between the ardent team and the atlantic team that your noticing?

krazykrista
01-13-2007, 07:13 PM
maybe it's the difference between the ardent team and the atlantic team that your noticing?

probably is.

lastnightalone
01-14-2007, 07:32 AM
i havent been on this board in a long while, but after i got skillet's new cd for christmas, and listened to it, and was disappointed as well as pleased, i came over to good ol' panhead.org to see what everyone else has been saying about their new stuff. i knew the new cd would be different than all the others, as their cds always are, but i honestly wasnt expecting them to go in the direction they did...and i must say, most of it is .... well, not to my taste.
more details later, after i hear the other loyal fan's honest feedback...so, go at it.



i love thier new cd {comatose}its the bestest cd i have ever brought!gkfdlnfgf;D :)

lastnightalone
01-14-2007, 07:39 AM
wow thiers alot of qustions and statements !!!

skynes
01-14-2007, 07:56 AM
Musically: I loved Comatose. I liked their mix of strings and rock in Collide and I'm glad to see they continued it. I would like to see more industrial in the future.

Vocally: No complaints. I liked the vocals.

Lyrically: The big let down. First let me make it clear that from my point of view, if a Christian band wants to sing about social issues and non-God stuff. That's fine. They can do that. My problem with Comatose is that the songs which are supposed to about God are not CLEAR that they are. The lyrics are vague and open to interpretation.

Even among the members here there was confusion over some songs as to whether they are about Christ or about someone you love. This kind of confusion isn't good.

Overall

Music is top notch
Vocals are great
Lyrics are a let down.

alienyouth9292
01-14-2007, 05:19 PM
i like the cd...i just over-listened to it too early and now it's gotten kind of old....

theelectric3
01-14-2007, 05:20 PM
isn't good for lyrics to be open to interpretation? i mean, you take one song, let 5 people hear it and you will get 5 different interpreations. because the song was written bad? not necessarily. often a person will hear a song based on where they are at in their lives (or even where they have been).

the songs that are my favorite on the cd are for personal reasons.

i like how their songs don't specifically say Jesus but speak about Him. "now how will a non-believer know?" easy. no one is that perfect. those we love dearly still let us down. so personally, that makes me dig deeper to know God. to a non-believer, perhaps it'll stir them to keep searching for Truth. for that which truly satisfies.

theelectric3
01-14-2007, 05:22 PM
i like the cd...i just over-listened to it too early and now it's gotten kind of old....

i did that with Alien Youth. so i learned my lesson. :P

skynes
01-14-2007, 10:00 PM
i like how their songs don't specifically say Jesus but speak about Him. "now how will a non-believer know?" easy. no one is that perfect. those we love dearly still let us down. so personally, that makes me dig deeper to know God. to a non-believer, perhaps it'll stir them to keep searching for Truth. for that which truly satisfies.


I personally don't. I prefer clarity. When believers have to look and relook and then ask "Is this song about Jesus or not?" I think you've gone too far with vagueness.

isn't good for lyrics to be open to interpretation? i mean, you take one song, let 5 people hear it and you will get 5 different interpreations. because the song was written bad? not necessarily. often a person will hear a song based on where they are at in their lives (or even where they have been).

When Christians hear the song and (eventually) learn its a love song to God and when unbelievers hear it and just hear a regular love song, I don't think that's good. If it looks like a normal love song, why pursue the matter any further?

I wonder how much influence Lava had in the lyrics.

timmyrotter
01-14-2007, 10:16 PM
do you seriously think lava had something to do with the lyrics? i know John isnt that much of a push over.

now as for interperitation of songs, people may take a song different ways. and that is okay, its bound to happen. especially when Skillet is trying to reach the mainstream, the only one it matters to really is the writer. anyone else can take it how they perceive it. and before anyone wants to say that it makes them any less "christian", well then you are simple ignorant and judgemental.

lamb_servant72
01-14-2007, 10:25 PM
I am going to give the album a chance to grow on me.

krazykrista
01-15-2007, 05:31 AM
if you watch the little videos that skillet had on their website before the release of the album -- the "behind the scenes" stuff -- john talked about the lyrics in this new album. he said that, although they didnt spend more time than usual in the writing of the lyrics, they spent a ton more time in editing it and messing around with it to make it be more catchy/sound better, etc. he said that one of the guys from the record label helped him with the lyrics, in making them more catchy and things, and that they got in a lot of arguments concerning the changes because john didnt always agree with everything...he didnt say that there was any major editing, but who knows. i'm sure there was some sort of influence there, though. how much of an influence i'm not sure.

skynes
01-15-2007, 05:40 AM
Here's the lyrics for Comatose taken from www.christianrocklyrics.com

I hate feeling like this
I’m so tired of trying to fight this
I’m asleep and all I dream of

Is waking to you
Tell me that you will listen
Your touch is what I’m missing
And the more I hide I realize I’m slowly losing you

Comatose
I’ll never wake up without an overdose of you

Chorus:
I don’t wanna live
I don’t wanna breathe
‘les I feel you next to me
you take the pain I feel
waking up to you never felt so real
I don’t wanna sleep
I don’t wanna dream
‘cause my dreams don’t comfort me
The way you make me feel
Waking up to you never felt so real

I hate living without you
Dead wrong to ever doubt you
But my demons lay in waiting
Tempting me away
Oh how I adore you
Oh how I thirst for you
Oh how I need you

Bridge: Breathing life

Waking up My eyes
Open up

Don’t leave me alone

---

Now the question I ask is: Is this song a love song about really needing a girl/guy or whoever? Or is it about needing God?

This is a prime example of my problem with Comatose's lyrics. Christian lyrics wearing a disguise.

timmyrotter
01-15-2007, 09:43 AM
Here's the lyrics for Comatose taken from www.christianrocklyrics.com

I hate feeling like this
Iím so tired of trying to fight this
Iím asleep and all I dream of

Is waking to you
Tell me that you will listen
Your touch is what Iím missing
And the more I hide I realize Iím slowly losing you

Comatose
Iíll never wake up without an overdose of you

Chorus:
I donít wanna live
I donít wanna breathe
Ďles I feel you next to me
you take the pain I feel
waking up to you never felt so real
I donít wanna sleep
I donít wanna dream
Ďcause my dreams donít comfort me
The way you make me feel
Waking up to you never felt so real

I hate living without you
Dead wrong to ever doubt you
But my demons lay in waiting
Tempting me away
Oh how I adore you
Oh how I thirst for you
Oh how I need you

Bridge: Breathing life

Waking up My eyes
Open up

Donít leave me alone

---

Now the question I ask is: Is this song a love song about really needing a girl/guy or whoever? Or is it about needing God?

This is a prime example of my problem with Comatose's lyrics. Christian lyrics wearing a disguise.

john, who wrote this, it is most likely about God. but if he replaced the word "you" with "God" Comatose would reach a smaller audience, people would be turned off to it. like it or not, that is the way it is. leaving a song open for interpratation allows a much broader listening audience.

BondageDuck
01-15-2007, 10:24 AM
do you seriously think lava had something to do with the lyrics? i know John isnt that much of a push over.

now as for interperitation of songs, people may take a song different ways. and that is okay, its bound to happen. especially when Skillet is trying to reach the mainstream, the only one it matters to really is the writer. anyone else can take it how they perceive it. and before anyone wants to say that it makes them any less "christian", well then you are simple ignorant and judgemental.

AMEN. It is after all THEIR album.

I think I have something to add to this conversation. One of my best friends is not a Christian. She is about as lost as you can be. When Comatose came out, I invited her & her roommate to a Skillet concert. They agreed because they like rock, but I bought them the Comatose CD so they could hear what it was going to be like. My friend absolutely fell in love with the CD. She burned herself a copy so she'd have one for her car & one for her room! We were driving one day & she had The Last Night on repeat. She made a comment along the lines of "Man I love this song, I wish I had someone to say that to me!!" I didn't say anything, I figured I'd let her interpret it her own way & she'd find out at the concert what it meant. A few minutes later, she made another comment: "Dude, NOBODY can love you that much! No human being is capable of the kind of love they're talking about in this song! How are you supposed to find a love like that?!" She was genuinely concerned about it, & it gave me the oppurtunity to tell her that someone already DOES love her & care about her like that. GOD DOES. This isn't an amazing And-Then-She-Became-A-Christian! story, but I would say she's on her way there, simply by opening up her heart. Wouldn't you? Ever since that CD came out she has been way more open to hearing me talk about my faith. She loves the CD, loved the concert...so while some of you may think this CD is "weak lyrically" or that it is too "open to interpretation," know this: it's already helped one person make the first steps in getting saved. And I'm sure if that was all it did, if nobody else liked it, Skillet (& more importantly GOD) would think that that CD was worth it. That that was enough. People are being reached through this album in a way that their other albums might not reach people. And you have to appreciate Skillet's effort for that.

krazykrista
01-15-2007, 02:24 PM
as a reply to the above post...
i think thats what skillet's aim is, above all, to minister to people through their music, and thats why i love them. They are genuine, authentic, and consistent in that way. Thats why I said as long as they keep being themselves, I'll remain faithful to supporting them. My argument was just something completely related to music and the art of it, but those reasons are not why Skillet is making music. They've still remained skillet,and hopefully they wont lose it.
So, yeah, my critique was coming from somewhere totally different than the ministry aspect. Thats awesome that God is working through Skillet like that.

Maugrim
01-15-2007, 04:41 PM
john, who wrote this, it is most likely about God. but if he replaced the word "you" with "God" Comatose would reach a smaller audience, people would be turned off to it. like it or not, that is the way it is. leaving a song open for interpratation allows a much broader listening audience.

That's not always true. Many well known mainstream artists and groups use the words "God" and "Jesus" in their songs and it certainly doesn't decrease album sales. Two examples come to mind. We all know of Evanescence and their debut album Fallen. Remember the cover song, "Tourniquet"? Here's the chorus:

"My God, my Tourniquet
Return to me salvation."

Not only does the song make a reference to God, it mentions Him as a source of salvation. And how many times has Fallen gone platinum?

I loathe American Idol but I do know that Carrie Underwood's smash single is entitled "Jesus, Take The Wheel".

That argument doesn't work.

DarkestRose
01-15-2007, 05:19 PM
Well, Carrie Underwood was selling to the country music audience which has a significant Christian demographic. And I think the rock market might have a different response.

Also, isn't Toruniquet a song about a person committing suicide?

Quadripedman
01-15-2007, 05:30 PM
To the above post: idk, but id have to say that either way that band isnt very christian...

what i like in a good Christian band is a few HUGE worship songs, packed with Gods glory etc, and a few other songs open to interpertation, that can be played on normal radio and whatnot..

krazykrista
01-15-2007, 06:00 PM
That argument doesn't work.

ahhhhh, good point...

timmyrotter
01-15-2007, 06:34 PM
That's not always true. Many well known mainstream artists and groups use the words "God" and "Jesus" in their songs and it certainly doesn't decrease album sales. Two examples come to mind. We all know of Evanescence and their debut album Fallen. Remember the cover song, "Tourniquet"? Here's the chorus:

"My God, my Tourniquet
Return to me salvation."

Not only does the song make a reference to God, it mentions Him as a source of salvation. And how many times has Fallen gone platinum?

I loathe American Idol but I do know that Carrie Underwood's smash single is entitled "Jesus, Take The Wheel".

That argument doesn't work.

i see what you are saying.

BUT Tourniquet wasnt a radio single, so it is not one that the masses would hear before they bought it.

Carrie underwood sings country, country is much more conservative than CHR/POP/Rythmic/R&B. and many country songs make refferences to God.
but skillet isnt country, thank God, and Evanescence's Fallen is more original and groundbreaking than Comatose, not to say comatose isnt amazing. but lets face it, Fallen was meant to be groundbreaking, tons of money and time was spent making that album. with that said, any negativity given off by saying "God" would be greatly overshadowed.
also Skillet's fanbase majority are "christian", evanescence didnt have any fanbase to speak of.
what i mean is that Skillet is known as a "christian supergroup", that preconception may turn people off as it is, let alone hearing God in all the songs.
Evanescence had no preconception.

DarkestRose
01-15-2007, 06:41 PM
To the above post: idk, but id have to say that either way that band isnt very christian...

what i like in a good Christian band is a few HUGE worship songs, packed with Gods glory etc, and a few other songs open to interpertation, that can be played on normal radio and whatnot..

Well, I interpreted the song to be about someone committing sucidie and the lyrics mentioning God were more of a "God, forgive me," sort of deal. I didn't see it as a religious song at all.

So I failed to see how that could define the rock market being accepting toward lyrics with Christian themes.

But also, I think Evanescence got out of any notability for having lyrics that mentioned God when they stated very clearly that they were not a Christian band and that their lyrics were not Christian. Whether they were before then, I do not know, but they denied. So they were not communicating their lyrics with an religious intent.

timmyrotter
01-15-2007, 06:47 PM
To the above post: idk, but id have to say that either way that band isnt very christian...

what i like in a good Christian band is a few HUGE worship songs, packed with Gods glory etc, and a few other songs open to interpertation, that can be played on normal radio and whatnot..

hahaha.... hahaha... okay im done.

anywho, "that band isnt very christian" so many people like this are the reason christians who are in bands are turned off to thier christian audiences. they are so judgemental!!!
i understand what you are trying to say, but its just wrong the way you said it.

Amy lee (evanescence's VOX) and Ben Moody (founding guitarist) used to play at churches, coffee houses and such. and i believe Amy and him were christian's, or at least had some influences in thier life. (if i am wrong correct me)

Maugrim
01-15-2007, 07:38 PM
Not to turn this into an Evanescence discussion but they were regarded as a Christian band in their early years and the lyrics did reflect that. After Fallen was released, Ben and Amy said in an interview that they no longer wanted to associate their personal faith with their music (suspiciously right after they became famous). After Ben left the band, Amy stated that Ben was the one who always wanted to write the spiritual lyrics. Whether or not they are both Christians is their own affair of course.

I don't take the song Tourniquet as literal suicide. I think of it as a suicide metaphor, dying of your worldy self and returning to your salvation. But I suppose there are different takes on it.

Ok, I'm done. ;-)

DarkestRose
01-15-2007, 07:59 PM
hahaha.... hahaha... okay im done.

anywho, "that band isnt very christian" so many people like this are the reason christians who are in bands are turned off to thier christian audiences. they are so judgemental!!!
i understand what you are trying to say, but its just wrong the way you said it.

Amy lee (evanescence's VOX) and Ben Moody (founding guitarist) used to play at churches, coffee houses and such. and i believe Amy and him were christian's, or at least had some influences in thier life. (if i am wrong correct me)


I heard something about Amy Lee and Ben Moody being Christians. And I'll believe it unless I hear them state otherwise.

I heard them state that their band isn't a Christian band, so I can accept that and, whether or not they were a Christian band before, I don't think of them as "sell outs."

But just to clarify, my original point was that I didn't believe "Tourniquet" was a Christian song at all, and thus, sholdn't be judged as that because it mentions God.

DarkestRose
01-15-2007, 08:04 PM
Not to turn this into an Evanescence discussion but they were regarded as a Christian band in their early years and the lyrics did reflect that. After Fallen was released, Ben and Amy said in an interview that they no longer wanted to associate their personal faith with their music (suspiciously right after they became famous). After Ben left the band, Amy stated that Ben was the one who always wanted to write the spiritual lyrics. Whether or not they are both Christians is their own affair of course.

I don't take the song Tourniquet as literal suicide. I think of it as a suicide metaphor, dying of your worldy self and returning to your salvation. But I suppose there are different takes on it.

Ok, I'm done. ;-)

I think I might have heard the metaphorical suicide interpretation before. Hmmm... It sounds plausible. I honestly could never really tell between the two theories because they both work. Perhaps the open-to-interpretation lyrics are what let the band get away with mentioning God?

I really find that Evanescence has many lyrics that can be understood in multiple ways.

But yes, I have heard a few songs on their CD "Origin" which seem to be at least Christian-inspired.

krazykrista
01-15-2007, 08:11 PM
okay, so, did anyone read the article on skillet jan/feb/ issue of fireworks magazine? the link's on the homepage of panheads.org, but here it is anyhow ... http://www.skillet.com/news/images/fireworks2.jpg ..

some things are said about the lyrics, confirming what i said i'd heard about john working on the lyrics with another person. its in the second column towards the bottom where John talks about a guy named Brian.
after reading that article i can tell that skillet is all about getting on the radio and into mainstream, now. we'll see how it works out, although i have a bad feeling about it -- only because i've always disliked mainstream. but hopefully skillet wont get swallowed up by the "machine". i understand their reasonings -- and i feel like i'm repeating myself.

on sort of an off-topic note...maybe i'm just having some sort of problem, but its beginning to irritate me that john seems to take a lot of credit for all the work done on the album and that he hardly mentions the work of the others. maybe im just hearing some weird tone in his voice that is irritating me. and i thought it odd the way he talked about cutting. maybe its just me.
but i'll shut up now before i say anything more.

DarkestRose
01-15-2007, 08:31 PM
John Cooper did co-write with Brian Howes. I don't really see anything fundamentally wrong with that. Brain probably worked with John's lyrics the way a publishing editor works with an author, getting the phrases polished so that people could understand that message that was supposed to be coming across. Sometimes musicians or writers are too close to their work and they need somebody to come in and say, "Well, that doesn't really make sense," or something like that.

I don't think it is wrong for the band to want to be on the radio either. They are trying to break out into the mainstream, so they are going to need to get mainstream listeners to hear their music.

I like Skillet in the mainstream because their music is still spiritually inspired and they are a great Christian example out there. I don't know if it is realistic to believe that non-Christian mainstream music audiences are going to come into our world on their own. I think we need to get into their world and we need to love them like Jesus does.

When John talks about cutting, I think the song "The Last Night" spawned from having so many fans admit to struggling with cutting and/or thought of suicide. And I think he's trying to get into causes that people relate to because people need to trust that they can find love, compassion, acceptance, friendship and hope in this world. I think they're edging that audience into the idea that there really could be an amazingly forgiving, merciful and grace-filled love, that we don't have to spend our lives in confused emotions and anxious thoughts. I think the album Comatose is mainly about hope and healing.

I trust John and the band to be completely genuine, real and truthful in their motives to reach out to non-Christians. I trust that he's a sincere Christian and that John is letting God lead him. I don't think Skillet will let their fans down.

timmyrotter
01-15-2007, 08:32 PM
the vocalist is usually the brains behind/inspiration behind the music. in this case john writes the music, he is the founder of the band, the only original member. and has every right to take most of the credit.

DarkestRose
01-15-2007, 08:35 PM
the vocalist is usually the brains behind/inspiration behind the music. in this case john writes the music, he is the founder of the band, the only original member. and has every right to take most of the credit.

I agree with that.

And in HM magazine, Korey stated that John is Skillet, that the music is his vision and that everyone else is in a more humbling position. I don't think they mind not getting as much credit or attention.

DarkestRose
01-15-2007, 08:45 PM
after reading that article i can tell that skillet is all about getting on the radio and into mainstream, now. we'll see how it works out, although i have a bad feeling about it -- only because i've always disliked mainstream. but hopefully skillet wont get swallowed up by the "machine". i understand their reasonings -- and i feel like i'm repeating myself.

I understand that it can be a little unnerving to have a Christian band cross-over to the mainstream. I too want Skillet to stay true to their Christian religious and spiritual convictions. I want them to be the same people they were in the mainstream and they are in the Christian market. That's totally understandable.

I kind of wonder what you think is going to happen with their mainstream career because I kinda get the idea that you're upset about something? I mean, do you think they're just going to be all about record sales and radio plays, focusing on becoming rock legends more than focusing on reaching others for Christ? Is it their "image"?

BondageDuck
01-15-2007, 10:10 PM
The thing that makes me think that Skillet will always remain faithful to their Christian roots is the fact that the one time I DID see them in a mainstream venue (with bands like Kottonmouth Kings, Staind, Earshot, etc.) they played "Angels Fall Down." In a MAINSTREAM venue. And you know what? About 75% of the audience walked away. And you know what else? Skillet didn't care. They were still there to worship. This concert was a month ago. I don't think they're having any issues with staying true to their mission to glorify God.

DarkestRose
01-15-2007, 11:02 PM
The thing that makes me think that Skillet will always remain faithful to their Christian roots is the fact that the one time I DID see them in a mainstream venue (with bands like Kottonmouth Kings, Staind, Earshot, etc.) they played "Angels Fall Down." In a MAINSTREAM venue. And you know what? About 75% of the audience walked away. And you know what else? Skillet didn't care. They were still there to worship. This concert was a month ago. I don't think they're having any issues with staying true to their mission to glorify God.

I think that is really awesome of them. I personally would have felt a little awkward if I was playing and lots of people were leaving, but I think they knew that they were doing the right thing. I already knew it, but it's glad to be re-confirmed in the knowledge that Skillet isn't ashamed of Christ.

skynes
01-16-2007, 02:47 AM
Tourniquet was not written by Evanescence, it was written by Soul Embraced, a Christian death metal band. The song is about suicide and losing your salvation. After slitting their wrists, the blood pouring out, the person realizing what they've done and begs God not to abandon them for it.

------

So Timmy, is compromising the clarity of an album to reach a larger audience a Godly thing? That does seem to be what you're suggesting.

so while some of you may think this CD is "weak lyrically" or that it is too "open to interpretation," know this: it's already helped one person make the first steps in getting saved.

I'm glad that your friend has been really helped by Skillet, I think you'll find a lot of people on here who've been helped one way or another by Skillet's music and it's always good to hear the effect.

Now can I ask the question, if that song was really clear that it was God who can love that much, would your friend have been so confused over who can love that much? If the album was clear and not vague, would they have liked Comatose any less?

DarkestRose
01-16-2007, 06:25 AM
I don't see why we're still nit-picking the lyrics. Obviously, the lyrics are affecting people's lives for God's glorly. We know that Skillet isn't selling out. So I don't see why we're still over-analyzing the lyrics. God's using them. That's enough.

skynes
01-16-2007, 07:51 AM
I don't see why we're still nit-picking the lyrics. Obviously, the lyrics are affecting people's lives for God's glorly. We know that Skillet isn't selling out. So I don't see why we're still over-analyzing the lyrics. God's using them. That's enough.

Here's what I know.

Old Skillet albums. Clear, concise, to the point. They said what they said with little analyzing required.

Collide and Comatose. Vague, blurred, confusing, hard to decipher the meaning. Coincidentally starting the same time Skillet teamed up with Lava.

I don't believe in coincidences.

Skillet as a band may not want outsiders influencing their ministry, their music and their lyrics. They may not care for record sales and money.

But what about the record companies? Do you really think Lava give a damn about Skillet's ministry? Lava are in it for money, first and foremost. Christian lyrics do not make money in mainstream, lovey dovey romance ones do. Therefore tie Skillet down with lovey romancey lyrics and Lava make money.

krazykrista
01-16-2007, 07:52 AM
I kind of wonder what you think is going to happen with their mainstream career because I kinda get the idea that you're upset about something? I mean, do you think they're just going to be all about record sales and radio plays, focusing on becoming rock legends more than focusing on reaching others for Christ? Is it their "image"?

yes, thats my concern. and i ditto what skynes said.
hopefully skillet will be smart, and remain true.

DarkestRose
01-16-2007, 08:15 AM
Here's what I know.

Old Skillet albums. Clear, concise, to the point. They said what they said with little analyzing required.

Collide and Comatose. Vague, blurred, confusing, hard to decipher the meaning. Coincidentally starting the same time Skillet teamed up with Lava.

I don't believe in coincidences.

Skillet as a band may not want outsiders influencing their ministry, their music and their lyrics. They may not care for record sales and money.

But what about the record companies? Do you really think Lava give a damn about Skillet's ministry? Lava are in it for money, first and foremost. Christian lyrics do not make money in mainstream, lovey dovey romance ones do. Therefore tie Skillet down with lovey romancey lyrics and Lava make money.

Well, Collide had the same lyrics before it was picked up by Lava. So I don't think they changed their lyrics for their record company. Also, John has been saying that though people keep fearing the record company wants them to water down their lyrics, that hasn't been the case. And I trust him. I think the lyric change is just where Skillet is at right now. It's reaching a lot of people for God, so I don't see what's wrong with it.

DarkestRose
01-16-2007, 08:17 AM
yes, thats my concern. and i ditto what skynes said.
hopefully skillet will be smart, and remain true.

I wouldn't worry because I don't think that is the case. I think Skillet is still totally focused about reaching others for Christ. I think the different direction they are going in is because of their mainstream tour. I think John saw where a lot of people in the world are at and he decided that the Christian market isn't really reaching them. So maybe Skillet needed to take a different direction in approaching them. So I think he's just changing the method of the message, not abandoning it all together.

timmyrotter
01-16-2007, 10:08 AM
well isntead of answering individuals with quotes, since it woudl take time, and its snowing!

what this comes down to, john's faith, dont question it, it is not your place. i dont think you have anything to worry about. as for the lyrics, what good does a band like the newsboys, or jeremy camp do to bring people to Christ, or even better ones life? they worship God, thats fine and all, but what about the great commission? those band sit inside thier confort zone and never effect non-believers. so now we have bands like Skillet, switchfoot, Relient k stretching out, and keeping thier faith. even if they dont sing about God all the time, or in the most clear ways, they are spreading hope, or at least uplifting lyrics in a dark place. they may change thier music, but that is to reach another broader audience.

and i dont even have a problem with bands who have christian memebers, but arent a "christian" band.

DarkestRose
01-16-2007, 10:17 AM
It is SNOWING!!!

[I know it's off subject. Sorry.]

BondageDuck
01-16-2007, 10:25 AM
I'm glad that your friend has been really helped by Skillet, I think you'll find a lot of people on here who've been helped one way or another by Skillet's music and it's always good to hear the effect.

Now can I ask the question, if that song was really clear that it was God who can love that much, would your friend have been so confused over who can love that much? If the album was clear and not vague, would they have liked Comatose any less?

The thing is, she's never even HEARD of Jesus (in a literal sense, I mean). She didn't even know that the reason we celebrate Christmas is because we are celebrating his birth. She didn't know because for one reason or another, she is SO turned off to hearing anything "religious." If the lyrics had directly said something about God, she never would have picked up the CD. And personally, I think The Last Night is lyrically & artistically the best album on the record. I love how John is singing it from God's point of view, & Korey is singing as the person who needs help. It's a beautiful song, & I don't think there's anything wrong with the lyrics of that or any other song on Comastose.

theelectric3
01-17-2007, 11:21 AM
yes, thats my concern. and i ditto what skynes said.
hopefully skillet will be smart, and remain true.

this is their call and they have a strong church family, friends and fans who are praying for them. even the band saliva noticed the difference in Skillet and respects them for it.

it's kinda silly to go round about in circles over whether what Skillet is doing is "godly" according to our own understanding. we are in no position to judge someone's heart and what is in it when we ourselves have not lived the perfect life. only God knows the hearts of men. let each work out his or her own salvation and be faithful to the calling that Christ has called each one of us to.

simply look at the fruit of their ministry (people's lives are being moved by the record and the band obviously felt fine with the lyrics when writing, so i'm chosing to leave it at that). based on that, God is being glorified and that's all that matters.

:)

timmyrotter
01-17-2007, 01:08 PM
thank you tracy

DarkestRose
01-17-2007, 01:28 PM
Totally agree w/ you Tracy.

Quadripedman
01-17-2007, 01:36 PM
amen, tracy

BondageDuck
01-17-2007, 08:55 PM
Finally someone got out what I was trying to say!! Thanks Tracy!

timmyrotter
01-17-2007, 08:59 PM
tracy has a way with words. im beginning to wonder if she works, or just sits all day thinking about how to get her point across perfectly on PH.org. :)

alienyouth9292
01-18-2007, 06:50 AM
bands and music can't be christian, only the people can.....

theelectric3
01-18-2007, 12:19 PM
tracy has a way with words. im beginning to wonder if she works, or just sits all day thinking about how to get her point across perfectly on PH.org. :)

what - who told you??
j/k. :P
(and thanks.)

[i agree alienyouth9292.]

DarkestRose
01-18-2007, 03:11 PM
tracy has a way with words. im beginning to wonder if she works, or just sits all day thinking about how to get her point across perfectly on PH.org. :)

Yeah. Tracy's cool.

krazykrista
01-18-2007, 06:34 PM
it's kinda silly to go round about in circles over whether what Skillet is doing is "godly" according to our own understanding.


well, that wasn't the original point of the thread. the original point was just to express our opinions on the apparent changes of skillet, and concerns regarding skillet remaining true to themselves in the face of mainstream influences...
i do agree with tracy , though.

timmyrotter
01-18-2007, 07:09 PM
well, that wasn't the original point of the thread. the original point was just to express our opinions on the apparent changes of skillet, and concerns regarding skillet remaining true to themselves in the face of mainstream influences...
i do agree with tracy , though.

krista, i see what you just said, as exactly what tracy said. thats confusing, but i mean that what you said this topic was about, is exactly what tracy just said. its basically gonna be some less understanding people, fighting with long time Skillet fans who know who they are, over whether or not skillet is "christian" anymore.

krazykrista
01-18-2007, 07:32 PM
krista, i see what you just said, as exactly what tracy said. thats confusing, but i mean that what you said this topic was about, is exactly what tracy just said. its basically gonna be some less understanding people, fighting with long time Skillet fans who know who they are, over whether or not skillet is "christian" anymore.

no, it has nothing to do with whether they're "christian" anymore. i was talking more in regards to their music as an art, and them not losing who they are as people in their music just because of switching to mainstream. its a different thing .. i wasnt questioning their "godliness", i was questioning their authenticity.
but, whatever, i think we've discussed whatever we think we're discussing to death.

timmyrotter
01-18-2007, 08:11 PM
no, it has nothing to do with whether they're "christian" anymore. i was talking more in regards to their music as an art, and them not losing who they are as people in their music just because of switching to mainstream. its a different thing .. i wasnt questioning their "godliness", i was questioning their authenticity.
but, whatever, i think we've discussed whatever we think we're discussing to death.

oh im just getting started... :) but seriously what i mean by "christian" (by the quotes im summing up the whole idea). anywho dont be concerned as for where they are going as people, even if it was our business, or our place to judge, i wouldnt. keep an open mind, change isnt always bad.

DarkestRose
01-18-2007, 10:27 PM
I'm just tired of people who say that Skillet is selling out to be successful in the mainstream. Ever since that one online article (http://christianmusic.about.com/od/interviewsmz/a/aaintskillet04.htm) came out where the interviewer was grilling John forever, I've been kinda bugged by people who keep trying to prove that Skillet is being fake.

theelectric3
01-19-2007, 10:58 AM
well, that wasn't the original point of the thread. the original point was just to express our opinions on the apparent changes of skillet, and concerns regarding skillet remaining true to themselves in the face of mainstream influences...
i do agree with tracy , though.

i apologize for derailing the thread from your original intention.



it just appeared that in talking about Skillet's authenticity it was leading to whether their lyrics are vague in their message and such... so it kinda was alluding to the point of "is skillet a christian band?" "are they doing the right thing?"

but it's nothing against you. it just seems like since they've crossed over to Atlantic people feel the need to critique their art and ministry...

change is a natural progression in life. i guess it can be harder for those "in the spotlight."

but again, i'm sorry for sidetracking from your original point.

(and yeah.. i think this whole topic has been discussed so much that it's going in circles.)

BondageDuck
01-19-2007, 07:51 PM
I'm just tired of people who say that Skillet is selling out to be successful in the mainstream. Ever since that one online article (http://christianmusic.about.com/od/interviewsmz/a/aaintskillet04.htm) came out where the interviewer was grilling John forever, I've been kinda bugged by people who keep trying to prove that Skillet is being fake.

What was the big deal with that article? It sounds like John was pretty set against turning away from the message.

DarkestRose
01-20-2007, 02:22 PM
What was the big deal with that article? It sounds like John was pretty set against turning away from the message.

Well, it pretty much because I was getting kinda annoyed that she kept twisting around everything John was saying to be all, "So you think all Christian videos are dorky!" when that wasn't what he said. And she kept grilling him and twisting what he said for the whole thing. Then she wrote an editorial that basically said he was selling out. And then made an "Are they selling out?" poll. And I was getting kinda ticked off about it because she'd always come to her conclusion.

BondageDuck
01-21-2007, 06:16 PM
Well, it pretty much because I was getting kinda annoyed that she kept twisting around everything John was saying to be all, "So you think all Christian videos are dorky!" when that wasn't what he said. And she kept grilling him and twisting what he said for the whole thing. Then she wrote an editorial that basically said he was selling out. And then made an "Are they selling out?" poll. And I was getting kinda ticked off about it because she'd always come to her conclusion.

Got it. That's so stupid! I can't believe how ignorant people are.

Lorirocks
01-21-2007, 10:19 PM
The album that I heard first was Alien youth and that has been my favourite. I have all their cds and they're all cool, but for the moment at least, I like comatose the best.
*I love Korey's voice, she has the hottest voice ever.
*Comatose is the best produced so far in my opinion
*even though it's not as crazy as the last 2 albums.. (I miss the screams).. it's actually a beautiful side of skillet. I especially like what Ben has done playing guitar, his melodies and stuff are really nice. Lori's drumming is a lot more mature and John's voice is nice and harsh when it needs to be but soft when it suits.

I'm glad they haven't stopped yet

Lorirocks
01-21-2007, 10:19 PM
They certainly haven't gone soft

BondageDuck
01-22-2007, 01:30 PM
The album that I heard first was Alien youth and that has been my favourite. I have all their cds and they're all cool, but for the moment at least, I like comatose the best.
*I love Korey's voice, she has the hottest voice ever.
*Comatose is the best produced so far in my opinion
*even though it's not as crazy as the last 2 albums.. (I miss the screams).. it's actually a beautiful side of skillet. I especially like what Ben has done playing guitar, his melodies and stuff are really nice. Lori's drumming is a lot more mature and John's voice is nice and harsh when it needs to be but soft when it suits.

I'm glad they haven't stopped yet

Wow, I couldn't agree more! AY is my favorite album too, but Comatse is a close contender! I love that Korey sings more on this album, I think her & John sound great together.

Unregistered
02-12-2007, 08:08 PM
I found the album to be very weak, overall, and I think my main issue with that is the recording quality. Seriously, hasn't anyone else noticed that Cooper's base line has all but been removed from the tracks? You probably wouldn't notice on a pair of standard earbuds or even PC speakers, but the bass levels in this album are far below the usual. Cooper's bass lines were part of what made Skillet's albums special. I put Skillet's older albums, any of Pillar's, Evanescence, and Diciple's albums into my car's CD player, and they carry quite a bit of puch, but when I drop Comatose into the CD slot, it sounds like somebody stole my subwoofers. I recall having a similar reaction to DC Talk's Supernatural album. Honestly, I can produce similar results by sticking a 200Hz low-pass filter on my system's outputs.