Vuren
01-06-2007, 02:21 AM
ok, so i bought collide last night and was listening to the album when Open Wounds started to play and i listened to the lyrics. And at least what i take away from it, is that it's someone very close hurting you. Well i started thinking about my childhood and how my father and i clashed, he was always telling me "put your poker face on", "men don't cry"(what can i say his favorite actors where john wayne and clint eastwood(old school clint eastwood with no emotions)). and to really stop him from doing that i started to kill off those emotions(to the point that being around someone who cries is almost unbearable i get so nervous i don't know what to say, because i can't relate). Well over christmas he sat down and was talking to me about how i act, he basically said that everything i put "on my face" is a facade, that deep down everything i say and show isn't what i really am(indifference to others, being cold hearted, being aloof). And he continued oh with how he feels it's his fault i'm like that. Well i mean, it is because of him that i act like i do(partially, the other reason is that i found hate and anger a much easier way to cope with pain, when a friend hurts you, it's much easier to tell them to go take a flying leap into the sun then to deal with it rationally). And when he was talking to me he started to cry and the such, and he asked if i felt it was his fault. And normally i don't like to lie, even if the lie will make the person feel better. Well i sat there and didn't say anything and luckily my grandmother yelled that dinner was ready so i got off the hook.

Now my question is the 10 commandments say that lying is a sin, but the bible also says that we are supposed to be compassionate to others. So if you lie to make someone feel better(in my case say that it's not my fathers fault) would that be a sin. or is it a contradiction because in that case i can't see how you can be compassionate and still tell the truth. What are your thoughts?

skynes
01-06-2007, 04:14 AM
The black and white answer is that lying is wrong regardless of the circumstances, sin will only harm you and those around you and can't be used for compassion.

But in reality... there's so many grey states it's really hard to tell. In your personal situation I think being honest about it would be best, tell the truth then work together to repairing the damage. If you don't tell the truth, things won't ever really change as your dad will now think it wasn't him (though he'll prolly still suspect it was), that clash of suspicions and confusions is a really awkward place to be.

You'll feel awkward cause you said nothing, he'll feel awkward cause he suspects what you would have said and it's all ick...

As for the grey states, let me give an example.

A mother is holding her newborn baby and asks you to comment on how beautiful she is.
Frankly this baby is the ugliest bag of potatoes you've ever seen...

What do you say? Do you agree with her that she's beautiful? Or say "she's as ugly as a bag of potatoes"?

NightCrawler
01-06-2007, 07:48 AM
As for the grey states, let me give an example.

A mother is holding her newborn baby and asks you to comment on how beautiful she is.
Frankly this baby is the ugliest bag of potatoes you've ever seen...

What do you say? Do you agree with her that she's beautiful? Or say "she's as ugly as a bag of potatoes"?
Meh, depends. She is ugly and beautiful. Or rather, the situation is beautiful by analogy and what characteristics it possesses -- yet not keen on the looks dept.

skynes
01-06-2007, 09:40 AM
Meh, depends. She is ugly and beautiful. Or rather, the situation is beautiful by analogy and what characteristics it possesses -- yet not keen on the looks dept.

Point I was making that to the mother who just spent hours in labour, she's the most beautiful thing in the world. But when asked: Is she beautiful?

what do you say to the mother?

Yes is a lie, but is compassionate to the mother.

No is the truth, but would be hurtful to the mother.

DarkestRose
01-06-2007, 09:45 AM
I think honesty is vitally important. We just need to speak the truth in love. You wouldn't have to tell the truth in a way that is condemning. You could graciously talk about how what he has said the past has affected how you act now for the purpose of healing.

NightCrawler
01-06-2007, 11:33 AM
Point I was making that to the mother who just spent hours in labour, she's the most beautiful thing in the world. But when asked: Is she beautiful?

what do you say to the mother?

Yes is a lie, but is compassionate to the mother.

No is the truth, but would be hurtful to the mother.
I was saying that technically, "Yes" is not a lie. It depends on what she was asking, or what you meant with your answer -- 'Yes' = 'it is a wonderful creation, the beauty is not skin-deep... or even on the surface.'

lamb_servant72
01-06-2007, 12:04 PM
I like what Jennifer said about sharing for the purpose of healing.

As I was reading your post, James, I was thinking about how literally my middle child takes everything I say. It scares me! I'm human. I make mistakes. I'm not always right.

I worry about screwing my kids up. I pray for wisdom. I think it would be helpful to have a "heart to heart" about those things that I haven't done exactly right. That way, I can have a chance to tell them why I did or said those things, and we can have a better understanding of one another.

Vuren
01-06-2007, 09:56 PM
As for the grey states, let me give an example.

A mother is holding her newborn baby and asks you to comment on how beautiful she is.
Frankly this baby is the ugliest bag of potatoes you've ever seen...

What do you say? Do you agree with her that she's beautiful? Or say "she's as ugly as a bag of potatoes"?

i usually say it looks like a walrus...at least in your example that's what i say. I tend to be a very blunt person(which garners me the label of jerk, and other words). But my father during our talk actually touched on how i'm blunt all the time and that sometimes it's better to tell a white lie and i remarked "but isn't it a sin in your religion to tell a lie?". and i started to roll it around in my mind about weather he wanted the truth, or a fake answer which also made it hard to answer. and annother problem is that i also tend to bottle things up and not deal with them and his question would have stopped that, so i didn't want to answer because of that as well.

terrasin
01-06-2007, 11:41 PM
This is something I had to deal with both with my mentors and those whom I've mentored.

It really depends on the situation. For instance, the thing about the baby, of course you would tell the mother it looks beautiful. However, there is a difference between telling someone something to make them feel better without consequence, and then there is telling someone something to make them feel better even if it's not what that person needs to be hearing. This is something I have bumped heads on with several Christians when they would rather tell people whom are going through situations things to make them feel better rather than what they need to hear to remedy the situation and move forward. Not to mention, it helps feed that desire for attention which, for a lot of people anymore, becomes a huge problem on it's own as they start making things up or putting themselves into situations just so people will feel bad for them and give them the attention they feed on.

CJ

Tromos
01-09-2007, 06:52 AM
*shrug* If you don't like the rules, change them.

If the mother asks "Isn't she beautiful?", respond "You must be so proud!"

I'll re-iterate my simple test:
1) Is it true?
2) Is it loving?
3) is it necessary?

If it fails any of the three, don't say it. If it passes all three, you need to say it. If you've been put into a situation where you are caught between compassion and a lie, change the rules.

skelfy
01-15-2007, 09:16 AM
Okay so I think lying is a terrible to do. Especially when it ends up hurting someone else.

If someone asked me if I thought they were pretty and I thought they were personally very unattractive and had bad body odor...or something...I'd probably just find another way to say it. I think different people get different reactions from others. While I may not find someone attractive, another person might. So if someone asked me "morgan, am I pretty?" I would definitely ask them why they felt the need to ask me that. Not only does this get you off the hook...but you don't have to lie, and you can find out where this person is coming from.

If a friend asked me for my honest opinion, I would give it to them. If a friend asked me for advice I would give it to them. If a friend trusts you...tell them honestly and from your heart. You can't go around your whole life lying and saying things you think people would be happy to hear. This also leads people on.

Say you meet someone who's kinda cool. But they have low self-esteem. And you love their personality but never are attracted to them. However this person begs for your attention day after day because they are lonely. And what do you do? You give them flattering compliments to make them feel better. And then two weeks later they think you like them a lot. So technically you are leading this person on. Do not do that.

I guess all I'm saying is be honest but tread lightly. *shrugs*

Quadripedman
01-15-2007, 12:47 PM
As for the grey states, let me give an example.

A mother is holding her newborn baby and asks you to comment on how beautiful she is.
Frankly this baby is the ugliest bag of potatoes you've ever seen...

What do you say? Do you agree with her that she's beautiful? Or say "she's as ugly as a bag of potatoes"?


no, you say "shes as beautiful as you are!" (to the mother) or, "she looks just like you!" only works tho if the mother is...not...

kittygirl
01-15-2007, 12:55 PM
I know for the times that my parents and I haven't gotten along (which is rare, but memorable), it was because they were trying to put on a show for other people, and make it look like they have it all together.

Honesty is more important than someone's reputation

NightCrawler
01-16-2007, 07:49 AM
*shrug* If you don't like the rules, change them.

If the mother asks "Isn't she beautiful?", respond "You must be so proud!"

I'll re-iterate my simple test:
1) Is it true?
2) Is it loving?
3) is it necessary?

If it fails any of the three, don't say it. If it passes all three, you need to say it. If you've been put into a situation where you are caught between compassion and a lie, change the rules.

I like your style. ... and that sounds like a good idea too.