as~i~lay~dying
01-07-2007, 09:22 PM
Your thoughts on absolute truth. Is there an absolute truth?

skynes
01-08-2007, 02:16 AM
Yes.

To say "there is no absolute truth" is in fact an absolute statement which they believe to be true. So there actually IS an absolute truth like it or not.

It's a twist on words, but it actually works.

Spiffles
01-08-2007, 12:21 PM
To me, God is the absolute Truth.

skilletfreak101
01-08-2007, 02:55 PM
The Word of God is absolute truth. it's the only thing in this whole world that truly works...everything else is man's opinion.

DarkestRose
01-08-2007, 03:16 PM
I think there are some absolute truths that people of any religion, spirituality or philosophy can attest to.

For example, brokenness. There is that excuse people use that, “nobody’s perfect” which affirms that we know we have this ugly cancer-like infection that takes over our being. We know because we experience depression, anger, loneliness, and fear. We do things we don’t want to do. We say what we later regret. The more we try to attain virtues, the more we find ourselves utterly lacking. The more we try to lose vices, the more we see how corrupted we are. Newspaper headlines and the reason cops have jobs prove our depravity. Even if one still believes that everyone has their goodness, their beauty and their light inside, we also know that “nobody is perfect” and thus that we all do evil.

Another is that, because we’re broken, we’re all groaning for liberation. We want redemption. A lot of relationships, careers, and things people do are attempts at this. We fight “just-wars” to redeem our country. A lot of brokenness is rooted in the desire for redemption.

I think we all know, even if we don’t know what we believe, that the world is messed up somehow and we’re all dysfunctional within in.

as~i~lay~dying
01-08-2007, 08:12 PM
hmmmm ....

I lean more towards no absolute truth. It just doesnt seem smart or accurate to say there is ... just looking for opinions. I am not entirely sure as to why I beleive this ... perhaps it is the media's influence? Not sure ... anyways, anyone who thinks the way I do?

Vuren
01-09-2007, 02:16 AM
there are many absolute truths...it just depends really on your perspective(ie relgion and the such)

skynes
01-09-2007, 02:37 AM
hmmmm ....

I lean more towards no absolute truth. It just doesnt seem smart or accurate to say there is ... just looking for opinions. I am not entirely sure as to why I beleive this ... perhaps it is the media's influence? Not sure ... anyways, anyone who thinks the way I do?

As I said, if you say "There is no absolute truth" that in itself is an absolute statement that you beleive to be true. So really you contradicted yourself.

It's a logic thing, not a smart or accurate thing. The nature of an absolute is that if something exists or something does NOT exist, that is an absolute.

So absolutes HAVE to exist because as I said "there are no absolutes" is an absolute.


So the only way to get by is to say "There may not be absolutes, but I'm not entirely certain" because if you were certain, that is an absolute.

So if absolutes don't exist:

You can never be certain of anything. You must question the existance of everything. You do not exist, your friends do not exist. Pain does not exist. Existance does not exist. Oh look at that... We just became Hindu.

Xon_*
01-09-2007, 07:04 AM
I think it was here that years ago someone said, that if you start looking through things (absolutes), like never see the truths that are there. Then why are you looking at all?

NightCrawler
01-09-2007, 07:56 AM
To me, God is the absolute Truth.


hahahaa

This is hilarious /\

"To me" -- relative
"God is the absolute Truth" -- absolute.

NICE.

NightCrawler
01-09-2007, 08:00 AM
So the only way to get by is to say "There may not be absolutes, but I'm not entirely certain" because if you were certain, that is an absolute.

So if absolutes don't exist:

You can never be certain of anything. You must question the existance of everything. You do not exist, your friends do not exist. Pain does not exist. Existance does not exist. Oh look at that... We just became Hindu.
How does that follow that if there are no absolutes, then you cannot be certain of anything?

It is not an absolute truth that I exist, but I am certain that I exist. I cannot decieve myself to think otherwise, nor do I have any reason to doubt I exist.

skynes
01-09-2007, 08:27 AM
How does that follow that if there are no absolutes, then you cannot be certain of anything?

It is not an absolute truth that I exist, but I am certain that I exist. I cannot decieve myself to think otherwise, nor do I have any reason to doubt I exist.

An absolute is either a yes or a no. Existance or non-existance. It is a definitive statement.

The statement: I exist
is an absolute statement

The statement: I do not exist
is also an absolute statement.

If absolutes truly do not exist then out very existance is called into question, as is our capabilities to think, to reason, to feel.

This reality must be an absolute reality or there is no reality at all.

If you are certain that you exist, then you believe in the absolute of your own existance.

Spiffles
01-09-2007, 12:39 PM
hahahaa

This is hilarious /\

"To me" -- relative
"God is the absolute Truth" -- absolute.

NICE.


It's a very simple thing to understand..

"To me" means thats what I beleive.. I'm acknologaging by putting that there that non Christians and other people dont beleive God is the truth (or even beleive in a God for some people)
*shrugs* I simply answered the question put forth

Secondly...Is there any point to this post.. You yourself are always attacking others when they make pointless posts.. This is that very same thing.. pointless..

Ant the fact that you started the post by laughing AT me it makes it sacrastic in tone.

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
sar·casm (sär'kāz'əm) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
2. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.


Making insulting remarks is against the forum rules. Grow up mate

NightCrawler
01-09-2007, 12:59 PM
It's a very simple thing to understand..

"To me" means thats what I beleive.. I'm acknologaging by putting that there that non Christians and other people dont beleive God is the truth (or even beleive in a God for some people)
*shrugs* I simply answered the question put forth

Secondly...Is there any point to this post.. You yourself are always attacking others when they make pointless posts.. This is that very same thing.. pointless..

Ant the fact that you started the post by laughing AT me it makes it sacrastic in tone.

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
sar·casm (sär'kāz'əm) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
2. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.


Making insulting remarks is against the forum rules. Grow up mate

'Pointless'?

My point was 'very simple to understand.' Even absolute truths are subjectively perceived, hence the temptation for people to claim that there is no absolute truth.

The laughter was out of the irony. (edit: and before you take things personally... are you ironic or was your statement? Now, what was I laughing at?)

NightCrawler
01-09-2007, 01:04 PM
An absolute is either a yes or a no. Existance or non-existance. It is a definitive statement.

The statement: I exist
is an absolute statement

The statement: I do not exist
is also an absolute statement.

If absolutes truly do not exist then out very existance is called into question, as is our capabilities to think, to reason, to feel.

This reality must be an absolute reality or there is no reality at all.

If you are certain that you exist, then you believe in the absolute of your own existance.
Ya lost me, Skynes. I thought absolute means it will always be true, and can never be wrong. It is not conditional to anything. My existence is temporary, I will not exist at some point, and I didn't exist 21½ years ago. Therefore my existence is conditional to circumstance and time.

Whereas the statement "God is the absolute Truth" must always be the case, unconditionally and regardless to perspective.

[edit]
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLG%2CGGLG%3A2005-23%2CGGLG%3Aen&q=define%3A+absolute
"complete and without restriction or qualification"
"without conditions or limitations;"
"something that is conceived to be absolute; something that does not depends on anything else and is beyond human control"

Spiffles
01-09-2007, 01:06 PM
'Pointless'?

My point was 'very simple to understand.' Even absolute truths are subjectively perceived, hence the temptation for people to claim that there is no absolute truth.

The laughter was out of the irony. (edit: and before you take things personally... are you ironic or was your statement?)


I answered the question from my view. To me it is absolute.. It doesnt matter what anyone else thinks, as far as i'm concerned what i bleieve is absolute..
So therefore my statement is perfectly correct..It does not matter if you or anyone else see's it differently.. The question put forth was answered from my pesonal beleifs.



Secondly.. The fact that you were laughing at me shows that it was intended to be sarcastic in tone, and therefore an attack on myself..

NightCrawler
01-09-2007, 01:12 PM
Secondly.. The fact that you were laughing at me shows that it was intended to be sarcastic in tone, and therefore an attack on myself..
Reread my edit. I wasn't laughing at you.

DarkestRose
01-09-2007, 03:23 PM
hmmmm ....

I lean more towards no absolute truth. It just doesnt seem smart or accurate to say there is ... just looking for opinions. I am not entirely sure as to why I beleive this ... perhaps it is the media's influence? Not sure ... anyways, anyone who thinks the way I do?

Do you mean that in an agnostic way? Like with pluralism.

Or do you mean that in a more athiest, there-is-nothing kind of way?

Just wondering to clarify.

theelectric3
01-09-2007, 06:45 PM
My personal look at absolute truth: God's word is the absolute truth in authority, wisdom...and life.

in the book of John we are shown that the Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh. so i believe it is fair and accurate to say that Christ is the absolute truth and sets guidelines for us to live by - morally, financially, health, peace... etc.

skynes
01-09-2007, 11:59 PM
Ya lost me, Skynes. I thought absolute means it will always be true, and can never be wrong. It is not conditional to anything. My existence is temporary, I will not exist at some point, and I didn't exist 21½ years ago. Therefore my existence is conditional to circumstance and time.

Whereas the statement "God is the absolute Truth" must always be the case, unconditionally and regardless to perspective.

[edit]
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLG%2CGGLG%3A2005-23%2CGGLG%3Aen&q=define%3A+absolute
"complete and without restriction or qualification"
"without conditions or limitations;"
"something that is conceived to be absolute; something that does not depends on anything else and is beyond human control"

The person who believes "There are no absolutes" is making a statement they believe to be absolutely true.

It's a logical fallacy. The only way absolutes can't exist is if the statement is absolutely true. But if the statement is absolutely true then it's wrong, cause at least ONE absolute does exist.

Absolute can mean always right and never wrong. But it can also mean always wrong and never right.

Desires of the flesh are always wrong. That's an absolute statement.

I exist, is an absolute statement.

Existance is an absolute reality. It's there and it being there is beyond our control. We could change and shape it, but we can't stop it from being there.

God can create and destroy absolutes. When He created each one of us, He created absolute beings, eternal beings. You will never stop existing now. The form and location of your existance will change, the fact that you exist will not.

(But then if we've been elected before time began, then we must have an absolute existance outside of time)

as~i~lay~dying
01-10-2007, 08:15 PM
Do you mean that in an agnostic way? Like with pluralism.

Or do you mean that in a more athiest, there-is-nothing kind of way?

Just wondering to clarify.

I believe everyone has to decide for themselves. What is right/wrong for one person may or may not be right/wrong for another.

skynes
01-11-2007, 03:51 AM
I believe everyone has to decide for themselves. What is right/wrong for one person may or may not be right/wrong for another.

In part that's right. Paul did say that to one person eating food offered to an idol is wrong, to another person its not. To the person who thinks its wrong, if he does it, it's counted as sin against him. But to him who sees no problem with it, its not sin.

Where do you draw a line with it? For one person, theft is ok if you need to do it to live, but its sin regardless. To another murdering someone who's harmed you is ok.

DarkestRose
01-11-2007, 12:47 PM
I wonder about the pluralism/relativism type of belief. I have a stepsister who uses the types of statements like that. “What’s right for you isn’t right for me.” “Everyone’s beliefs have validity with no superiority over the other.” “You can’t prove anything one way or the other, so just choose your beliefs and let others do the same.” And it goes on that way.

I used to think it was used in an undertaking to have tolerance for other people and not feel so much pressure to believe the “right” thing. [And maybe it really is.] With an exterior look at the pluralism/relativism types of beliefs, it looks romantic. To be honest, I used to look at it a lot and feel that it was easier for them to be loving, compassionate, accepting people. They could befriend whomever they wanted to and not be told, “Well, he’s a homosexual.” And there wouldn’t be people always grilling you on sins, so you’d feel more forgiveness, mercy and grace when you messed up.

The thing is that it doesn’t satisfy. Just right off that bat, it’s hard to assume that all religions are right. Eventually, they would start contradicting each other with all their beliefs in higher powers, afterlife, morals and such. So according to pluralism/relativism, every religions claim to legitimacy is bogus. Thus, it would mean the only people who are “right” are the pluralist/relativists. This makes it the least tolerant of all positions or at least as “intolerant” as all other beliefs, only it look really, really tolerant if you don’t really think about it.

skynes
01-11-2007, 02:02 PM
I think society needs a form of intolerance. A society of pure tolerance is a society of chaos.

We must be intolerant of evil. We must be intolerant of sin. We must be intolerant of pain.

To have a total tolerance of crime, hate and evil, is to let evil rule the world.

The foot needs to come down somewhere.

I know what I've said is an exaggeration, but it's the ultimate end of relativism and tolerance. Looking around at society... are we really that far off it? We already have rapists allowed to walk the streets untracked because tracking them breaches 'human rights'. How close are we?

DarkestRose
01-11-2007, 02:28 PM
I agree that we need to be intolerant towards sin and evil.

My statement was more along the lines of I see why people think pluralism is so pretty, but it is actually as intolerant as any other belief and does not hold much water after all.

NightCrawler
01-13-2007, 09:18 PM
The person who believes "There are no absolutes" is making a statement they believe to be absolutely true.

It's a logical fallacy. The only way absolutes can't exist is if the statement is absolutely true. But if the statement is absolutely true then it's wrong, cause at least ONE absolute does exist.

Absolute can mean always right and never wrong. But it can also mean always wrong and never right.
I understand and agree. But I have trouble with the following:

Desires of the flesh are always wrong. That's an absolute statement.

I exist, is an absolute statement.

Existance is an absolute reality. It's there and it being there is beyond our control. We could change and shape it, but we can't stop it from being there.

God can create and destroy absolutes. When He created each one of us, He created absolute beings, eternal beings. You will never stop existing now. The form and location of your existance will change, the fact that you exist will not.

(But then if we've been elected before time began, then we must have an absolute existance outside of time)
Perhaps what I mean to say is an absolute cannot be changed; however, I guess it would make sense if absolutes are only established and destroyed by God, who has the power to create eternal beings and other unconditional objects, concepts and properties.

I am just reminded of zero Kelvin, which is the theoretical "absolute zero" temperature. Nothing can change how cold something can possibly be, it just cannot be colder than 0 K. Such an absolute cannot be changed, it has been established by logical material law -- set up by God.

skynes
01-14-2007, 02:51 AM
Perhaps what I mean to say is an absolute cannot be changed; however, I guess it would make sense if absolutes are only established and destroyed by God, who has the power to create eternal beings and other unconditional objects, concepts and properties.


I see two kinds of absolute. An absolute in reality and an absolute in speech.

"God exists" is both an absolute in reality AND an absolute in speech.

"God does not exist" is an absolute in speech, which the speaker believes to be an absolute in reality.

The statement "there are no absolutes" is making a judgement both upon reality and speech.

If that statement is true, then no absolutes in any shape or form can exist, but since the statement is absolute in speech, it can never be true.

I am just reminded of zero Kelvin, which is the theoretical "absolute zero" temperature. Nothing can change how cold something can possibly be, it just cannot be colder than 0 K. Such an absolute cannot be changed, it has been established by logical material law -- set up by God.

I'm not much of a Chemist, but if it's theoretical, doesn't that mean it hasn't been proven? So then you can't really call it an absolute until someone tries to break it.

unshakeable15
01-18-2007, 02:41 PM
Scott, i believe it has been tried. They can come very close in some labs in Antarctica, but they cannot get to 0 K. So, in a sense, they have proved it is absolute zero by not being able to go any lower than they do.

I answered the question from my view. To me it is absolute.. It doesnt matter what anyone else thinks, as far as i'm concerned what i bleieve is absolute..
So therefore my statement is perfectly correct..It does not matter if you or anyone else see's it differently.. The question put forth was answered from my pesonal beleifs.
*tries to ignore the 9 spelling errors*

That is the rub, the issue, right there. For it to be a personal belief, it CANNOT be an absolute.

For example, it is my personal belief that all blondes are stupid (not true, just an example).

That is an absolute statement; it does not allow any wiggle room for any blonde anywhere to be smart. For my statement to be true, they must all be stupid.

But because i've placed the caveat in there ("my personal belief"), i've displaced the absolute from the statement. Meaning, by saying "This is my personal belief right here" takes away from the absolute nature of the statement. Either it is your belief (and therefore not necessarily mine), or it is absolute (and therefore true for everyone). You cannot stick them both together; it creates a nonsensical statement.

THAT, from what i am understanding, is all that Nightcrawler was saying previously. It was not, from how i read it, at all indicated to be cruel, mean, sarcastic or ugly.

Spiffles
01-18-2007, 02:58 PM
*tries to ignore the 9 spelling errors*


*rolls eyes*


That is the rub, the issue, right there. For it to be a personal belief, it CANNOT be an absolute.

For example, it is my personal belief that all blondes are stupid (not true, just an example).

That is an absolute statement; it does not allow any wiggle room for any blonde anywhere to be smart. For my statement to be true, they must all be stupid.

But because i've placed the caveat in there ("my personal belief"), i've displaced the absolute from the statement. Meaning, by saying "This is my personal belief right here" takes away from the absolute nature of the statement. Either it is your belief (and therefore not necessarily mine), or it is absolute (and therefore true for everyone). You cannot stick them both together; it creates a nonsensical statement.



I dont think people get it..

What I was saying is that TO ME it is absolute.. It may not be to the rest of the world, or other peoples beliefs, or views.. but to me it is. From my beleifs, thats how it is, there isnt anything else that changes that, and because there is nothing else that changes that to me it is absolute.
The fact that is may not be to others is not relevant to my beliefs.





THAT, from what i am understanding, is all that Nightcrawler was saying previously. It was not, from how i read it, at all indicated to be cruel, mean, sarcastic or ugly.

*shrugs* if that is gonna be brought back up.. My issue was being laughed at.. not the other bits.. *shrugs* It is old issue now that I see no relevence in being brought back up again...

DarkestRose
01-18-2007, 03:06 PM
THAT, from what i am understanding, is all that Nightcrawler was saying previously. It was not, from how i read it, at all indicated to be cruel, mean, sarcastic or ugly.

I get what you guys are saying for his wording and I agree that in the absolute/relativistic spheres it didn't make sense, but I think you guys are way over-analyizing his wording.

As it is, I don't think Nightcrawler brought it up to be mean either, but seeing as Spiffles seemed to be hurt and/or felt mocked, I think it would be nicer to just apologize and/or drop it instead of constatly reiterating what was meant in order to justify it.

unshakeable15
01-18-2007, 04:42 PM
I get what you guys are saying for his wording and I agree that in the absolute/relativistic spheres it didn't make sense, but I think you guys are way over-analyizing his wording. [...] I think it would be nicer to just apologize and/or drop it instead of constatly reiterating what was meant in order to justify it.
Well, personally, i'm not trying to attack Spiffles. My only intent is to correct a fallible mindset.

Something cannot be absolute TO YOU or TO ME. Either it is absolute, meaning, it is true for everyone, or it is not absolute. Absolute means to have no restrictions, exceptions or qualifications. Saying "To me,..." is a qualifier, it frames the truth in your point of view, taking it out of the realm of the absolute.

The reason i'm getting all "huffy" or "exact" about all this is that it degrades the integrity of the absolute nature of God when you put a qualifier at the end or beginning of the sentence. "To be, God is loving" would be better expressed "I have felt God to be loving" so as not to degrade the absolute nature of his being.

i apologize if you took offense at what i said, but i get a tad upset when my God is misconstrued or misrepresented, moreso when it is done unintentionally.

Spiffles
01-18-2007, 05:07 PM
Well, personally, i'm not trying to attack Spiffles. My only intent is to correct a fallible mindset.

Something cannot be absolute TO YOU or TO ME. Either it is absolute, meaning, it is true for everyone, or it is not absolute. Absolute means to have no restrictions, exceptions or qualifications. Saying "To me,..." is a qualifier, it frames the truth in your point of view, taking it out of the realm of the absolute.

The reason i'm getting all "huffy" or "exact" about all this is that it degrades the integrity of the absolute nature of God when you put a qualifier at the end or beginning of the sentence. "To be, God is loving" would be better expressed "I have felt God to be loving" so as not to degrade the absolute nature of his being.

i apologize if you took offense at what i said, but i get a tad upset when my God is misconstrued or misrepresented, moreso when it is done unintentionally.

I dont have anything else to say on this except that, you have completely misunderstood what i'm saying...

actually one more thing... every single post here is an oppinion, or view or beleif. It actually does NOT matter if the post says "to me" or doesnt. the fact that it is a post makes it a view or beleif or oppinion...
So with that in mind everyone that has posted has said an absolute has said it as their own view or beleif..
Why then am I being the ONLY one targeted??

unshakeable15
01-18-2007, 05:16 PM
Again, i apologize. i did not mean to single you out personally. It was not meant to be a personal attack, or an attack at all. This just shows the miscommunication that comes when we, humans with 6 million+ individual perspectives, talk about something bigger than all of us and beyond all our perspectives.

In some ways, yes, saying "God is absolute" is opinion. There is not way to prove that i would be correct in saying that. But as followers of this God, you and i know that he is absolute. So we can state it as opinion and in so doing mangle his nature (as i stated above), or we can state it as fact and have the people around us misunderstand the nature of God. Which would you rather do? Give cause for others to misunderstand God, or mistate God's nature?

(i don't have a correct answer to that question.)

Spiffles
01-18-2007, 05:27 PM
Again, i apologize. i did not mean to single you out personally. It was not meant to be a personal attack, or an attack at all. This just shows the miscommunication that comes when we, humans with 6 million+ individual perspectives, talk about something bigger than all of us and beyond all our perspectives.

In some ways, yes, saying "God is absolute" is opinion. There is not way to prove that i would be correct in saying that. But as followers of this God, you and i know that he is absolute. So we can state it as opinion and in so doing mangle his nature (as i stated above), or we can state it as fact and have the people around us misunderstand the nature of God. Which would you rather do? Give cause for others to misunderstand God, or mistate God's nature?

(i don't have a correct answer to that question.)


I would rather do what I did and say, it is my oppinion. Why? because that way people go "ok, that how he see's things." then they may ask why or any other questions and get into a convo or something Rather then just outright saying something and people going " man, this guy is full of crap" which I bet most people see Christians who just outright say things.. (basicly I see it as the same as bible bashing)

What i'm saying is that to me God is absolute, rather then telling everyone God is absolute..Not everyone has the same beleifs/views/whatever, so telling everyone something goes down the wrong way and they then think your just a moron instead of listening to what your saying..

Thats why I put "to me" in my post. *shrugs* Every single post here is just an oppinion/beleif/view even if they dont say "to me" or anything that means the same as "to me".



(did I just clarify things or confuse things more? lol)

NightCrawler
01-18-2007, 07:45 PM
General post to anyone who was offended or thought I was being offensive:

It wasn't my intent to be offensive. Any attempt to show otherwise was not to justify offensive behaviour, only clarify how it was not offensive. Sorry.

Thanks for trying to clear it up, unshakeable15. You were dead on for what I was trying to say.

DarkestRose
01-20-2007, 12:15 AM
General post to anyone who was offended or thought I was being offensive:

It wasn't my intent to be offensive. Any attempt to show otherwise was not to justify offensive behaviour, only clarify how it was not offensive. Sorry.

Thanks for trying to clear it up, unshakeable15. You were dead on for what I was trying to say.

Yeah, I was re-thinking my post and I think I sounded kinda snobby or condescending toward you. That wasn't my intent. So I wanted to apologize for that.

kybz
01-20-2007, 02:52 AM
I would like to say one thing on this subject.

Most people have agreed, from what I understand, that the nature and word of God is absolute and truth, and that in it we can have 100% faith -even if we do have differing perspectives because of our human nature.

If this is the case I have one question: why then do we dilute it and not live by it. The whole argument of making sure we state that it is our opinion and not absolute is only making people question God and the Word more. We are then compromising to the world to satify their whims. Saying "My belief is..." is only diminishing the power and authority of God and His word.

Lately I read Matt 15, and it talks about how defilement comes from within and makes things worse when it is spoken out. When we belittle our faith and convictions by appealng to the whims of others we are belittling the Truth and Assurance of 1. our faith, 2. God and His power and 3. the absolute, life-sustaining power of God's word.

Have a look at Matt 16 from verse 13. Here is the perfect example of absolute faith and conviction. Peter does not say "Oh, Lord. I believe you are...", or "I understand from what I know.." He makes a bold and absolute statement "You are..."

Should we fear that we offend people? Should we be worried that some might say "Oh, he's a bible basher.." Jesus says all through the gospels that we should not fear what people think we shouldn't be worried what they say of us.

Guys, Jesus got a whole lot of crap put on Him because of His faith and convictions, he was beat, spat on, mocked, nailed to a cross and faced the lowest form of degradation I could think of - He had his clothes gambled in front of him - not even the other two criminals had that put on them! Yet He faced it all, not caring what they said or thought because He had His eyes on Higher things!

We should only fear what God thinks of us.

I, for one, do not care if I offend people. And realistically, if you're the kind of person that sees things as "well, that's their point of view." Then I won't need to be worried because you won't be offended.

I am only worried about what God thinks of me and if I stay true to His word then there is no need to worry what men think of me.

skynes
01-20-2007, 04:16 AM
LOL. Kirby you sound like me.