NightCrawler
03-12-2007, 06:20 AM
What is life, thought, consciousness, awake?

What separates you from a rock, or from a computer?

What separates you from a monkey or a cat?

What is a soul? ...Is it different from a spirit?

TheFireBreathes
03-13-2007, 08:25 PM
consciousness seperates us from other animals

skynes
03-14-2007, 03:21 AM
Consciousness is that annoying thing that keeps my from my sleep!

NightCrawler
03-14-2007, 06:14 AM
Consciousness is that annoying thing that keeps my from my sleep!
Cross-referencing this to the other guy's post... animals don't sleep?

ROFL

Laerasyn
03-14-2007, 09:49 AM
Well, it seems to me that this question is branching off of the age-old discussion of what parts make up a human being. There are so many different ways to answer this question, but I guess I'll throw out my views, just to get the discussion going:
I believe that, according to scripture, there are three parts that make up a human being.
"May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."
--- 1 Thessalonians 5:23
From this verse (and other like it, don't really have the time to find them now), I gather that people are made up are made up of spirit, soul (Paul makes them seperate), and body.
"For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him?"
---1 Corinthians 2:11
If the spirit and the thoughts of a man are interconnected, I would argue from this verse that things like the will, mind, and emotions are included in the spirit (this is, by the way, spirit with a lower-case "s," so I'm assuming it's different than the Holy Spirit that dwells within us but is not ours necesarilly). Therefore, that's where I would place this idea of "Consciousness" as well.
The word is, I'm pretty sure, one that was made up by science, and the the scientific understanding seems to be limited to the firing of nerves in the brain. I would say, however, that a Biblical understanding of the word would be that it is that part of the spirit that manifests itself in the body and the brain; wakefullness (hehe), awareness, our ability to process information and reason with it, etc.

That's my opinion, anyway. Scripture's a little weak, I realize... I need to go back and find all the verses I used to use to support this arguement... anyway, any other thoughts?

bob
03-15-2007, 12:33 PM
Consciousness is that annoying thing that keeps my from my sleep!

Amen!

dawn of light
03-15-2007, 01:23 PM
I pretty much agree with you, Laerasyn.

Except I thought the soul was the mind, will and emotions. (different wording, same meaning I guess.)

Our soul is our reasoning and feelings.
Our spirit is what enables us to communicate with God. We feel direction and conviction from the Holy Spirit to our spirit. But our soul is also connected because from a feeling of conviction for example, we'll reason out in our mind what we did wrong and feel things such as shame and guilt.

Laerasyn
03-15-2007, 08:17 PM
Hmmm... maybe I have it mixed up. Never can tell with me. ;D
Anyway, as you said, same idea for the most part.

NightCrawler
03-16-2007, 08:51 PM
I pretty much agree with you, Laerasyn.

Except I thought the soul was the mind, will and emotions. (different wording, same meaning I guess.)

Our soul is our reasoning and feelings.
Our spirit is what enables us to communicate with God. We feel direction and conviction from the Holy Spirit to our spirit. But our soul is also connected because from a feeling of conviction for example, we'll reason out in our mind what we did wrong and feel things such as shame and guilt.
How might you respond to someone if they say that your feelings, emotions, and thinking are all part of your brain? Would that mean your soul is material?

frymeskillet
04-03-2007, 02:00 PM
I can see how easily this thread can form into and Evolution argument.... :D

What separates us from other creatures? we can talk and express our feelings. What is a soul? it is a spirit that can make its own choices and one that can be saved. What is life , thought, and consciousness? It is what we feel in our spirits and our feelings to be able to make decisions and choices...to further save ourselves and others.

Of course, it's really more complicated than that...but I'm afraid I don't have time to dive into it. :)

The Lamma
04-03-2007, 04:59 PM
God gave us the ability to appreciate and understand things such as beauty. There was some other things, so I'll try to pull them out of my memory...or book...

NightCrawler
04-03-2007, 05:21 PM
I can see how easily this thread can form into and Evolution argument.... :D

What separates us from other creatures? we can talk and express our feelings.
I am trying to remember the name of the gorilla. It might have been Amy or similar. Anyway, she is a gorilla that knows a form of sign language. She was recorded to have cried in the morning (for some reason). That afternoon she said in sign that she was sad, and she cried that morning. a) gorillas can learn language b) they understand themselves as self-conscious beings which exist over time c) they have emotions/feelings

What is a soul? it is a spirit that can make its own choices and one that can be saved.
So, a soul is a spirit with a choice. It is held accountable to its actions. Interesting.

What is life , thought, and consciousness? It is what we feel in our spirits and our feelings to be able to make decisions and choices...to further save ourselves and others.
What if someone says you to that what you feel 'in your spirit' is essentially from and in the brain?

Of course, it's really more complicated than that...but I'm afraid I don't have time to dive into it. :) Thanks for your input :)

frymeskillet
04-04-2007, 12:13 PM
I am trying to remember the name of the gorilla. It might have been Amy or similar. Anyway, she is a gorilla that knows a form of sign language. She was recorded to have cried in the morning (for some reason). That afternoon she said in sign that she was sad, and she cried that morning. a) gorillas can learn language b) they understand themselves as self-conscious beings which exist over time c) they have emotions/feelings

That's cool, I never really thought about it like that.


What if someone says you to that what you feel 'in your spirit' is essentially from and in the brain?

I would tell them they are trying to trick me into thinking I am kin to an ape, and/or that I wasn't going to believe their atheism. ;D


All joking aside, those are really hard questions to answer, I guess that's where our faith should kick in. We don't know all of the answers in the universe and never will have an understanding of them until we reach heaven, until then we should simply trust in God that we are different from animals and he made us that way for a reason. We must have faith.

DarkestRose
04-04-2007, 02:23 PM
Jonathan, those are good questions.

I don't know. I feel like saying "just having faith, trust God, etc." might satisfy a Christian, but wouldn't be a strong argument for answering a skeptic. Problem is that most, if not all, of my thoughts about what seperates us from animals comes from faith.

The Lamma
04-04-2007, 08:07 PM
I have a bad memory...Did anyone mention complete free will in everything?

skynes
04-05-2007, 02:45 AM
I feel like saying "just having faith, trust God, etc." might satisfy a Christian

Wouldn't satisfy me :P but I'm awkward like that.

NightCrawler
04-05-2007, 06:33 AM
I have a bad memory...Did anyone mention complete free will in everything?
Show me how any person, thing, etc. on this planet could EVER have 'complete' free will ... let alone 'in everything'. Sorry, I just don't buy free will, nor do I think most free-will adherents would accept 'complete' free will.

DarkestRose
04-05-2007, 11:29 AM
Wouldn't satisfy me :P but I'm awkward like that.

I doesn't for me either. That was largely why I said "might."

frymeskillet
04-05-2007, 12:49 PM
Show me how any person, thing, etc. on this planet could EVER have 'complete' free will ... let alone 'in everything'. Sorry, I just don't buy free will, nor do I think most free-will adherents would accept 'complete' free will.

I agree with you on the fact that we don't have complete free will. I think that even the things we do when not obeying God were supposed to happen. Even those times when we turn from God's will and stray to our own, we are still following the path that we were meant to follow. You can't escape your destiny.

Sorry, that was a little off-subject. :)

The Lamma
04-05-2007, 01:00 PM
Ok, ok. Free will, then. We have waaaay more free will then the animals do. They only trust their instincts, which often aren't that great. Often they are very good, though, and thats where will comes in: Obey or not obey? Animals follow their instincts unless something takes over their mind, which only happens in movies. Even then, its not free will.

skynes
04-06-2007, 03:34 AM
Often they are very good, though, and thats where will comes in: Obey or not obey?

When I look at my mischeivous dog... staring at that bit of something on the table... wanting to grab it. He looks at it, looks at you... looks at it... looks at you.

There is an intelligence there beyond what you're giving them credit for

The Lamma
04-06-2007, 10:58 AM
Right. So its instincts and obeying its master. But you're right. I'm not giving them enough credit for the intelligence that they do have. But we still have more free will than them.

skynes
04-06-2007, 11:04 AM
Right. So its instincts and obeying its master. But you're right. I'm not giving them enough credit for the intelligence that they do have. But we still have more free will than them.

I'll throw you a bone (dog pun intended).

Humans are creative. We can contemplate poetry, music and works of art. The animal kingdom cannot. We might be able to teach an animal to follow a pattern of actions, like holding a paint brush, dipping it in paint and doing something with it. But it is outside animal limitations to be creative.

Creativity is part of the image of God. Something only humans have.

The Lamma
04-06-2007, 11:20 AM
I don't know what to think on this either way at the moment, but what does anyone think of animals and love? Are they able to have actual love?

HogeyTheBear
04-07-2007, 09:08 AM
Am I dreaming this?

The Lamma
04-07-2007, 06:23 PM
Huh? What are you talking about? Lol

NightCrawler
04-09-2007, 06:36 AM
Am I dreaming this?
Maybe. How could you know? ;)

The Lamma
04-10-2007, 05:14 PM
They are probably dreaming since they are talking about nothing we were talking about...