As announced last week, the boards have undergone some major changes. For the last 2 months we (the mods (http://www.panheads.org/boards/showgroups.php)) have been working on a plan to reorganize and restructure the PH community. We recognized the problems, discussed the best way to fix things and tonight the first major phase of restructuring was implemented. From here on out, we will continually be working on making the boards a better place. While not all of the issues have been worked out, we feel we've addressed a number of the major ones.

With this you will see a change in how things are moderated. The randomness and off-topic nature that has run rampant is coming to a stop. The laws of the land and web etiquette will be enforced, which includes the use of the moderated group for those who persistently do not listen to warnings.

Now to the changes that have been made:

New board descriptions - many of the boards received a facelift and now have descriptions that better reflect the content of each board. Please read the new descriptions, as they tell you what content goes where.


Pointless posts - has been retired for the betterment of the community. This thread has a long history going back to the Alien Youth message boards (circa 2002), but has long sense lost its original focus and usefulness. It has descended into nothing more than a two-way conversation that would be more appropriate in an IM client or the chat room. This is not the purpose of this thread or the message boards in general.


Daily rant, et al. - have been locked due to the lack of discussion. These threads have turned into post-racking and content lacking threads. They have become other versions of pointless posts.


Post count - In addition to locking the above threads, we also laid them to rest in the Arcade. The nature of how the threads were being used gave a very disproportionate view of individuals' contributions to the community, and placing them in the arcade allowed us to zero out those post counts. This will only have a noticeable effect on a handful of users, so the overall impact to the community is minimal.


Report To Moderator - We have always had the "report to moderator" link on posts (the little button with the exclamation point in the lower left corner of a post), but we've recently expanded on the functionality a bit. Instead of reporting a post and never knowing what action or decision the mods have made on it, you are now able to track your report and discuss it further with the moderators if need be. When you report a post, a new thread is created in the new Reported Posts (http://www.panheads.org/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=26) forum. This thread is only viewable by the person that made the report and the moderators, so you are able to discuss the issue privately. Posting in a thread "ooh, this is probably gonna get locked!" is not an appropriate way to report a post.

Additionally, if you have a concern that is not related to a specific post you can simply create a new thread in this forum. Like normal reported posts, this thread is viewable only by you and the moderators. If you have things you want to discuss privately, this is the preferred way rather than sending a PM to an individual moderator, as it helps us all stay informed.


Development Group - If you want to be a part of what is going on in the development of the community, please join this group. This is posted as a reminder since I'm sure many are unaware that it even exists. You may join the Development Group in your User Control Panel (http://www.panheads.org/boards/profile.php?do=editusergroups).


Locked Old Discussions - we have locked all threads that have had no activity since January 1, 2006. Basically, we're trying to prevent a lot of the "grave-digging" that tends to happen, often by new members. This will be a slight change since this now means we will certainly have duplicate threads on occasion, simply because the original thread was dormant for long enough to be automatically locked. If it makes sense to unlock the old thread and merge the new discussion into it, we'll do so on a case-by-case basis.

i like most of the changes... but the only one that is missing is the new Skin. and im not sure how i feel about pointless posts and threads like it being retired. it is focused on certain people... well idk. maybe its for the best. another good rule to add would be, for every 3rd post, you must post at least once in the Frying Pan. :)

No me gustalo... no me gusta nada...

Retiring the Pointless Posts thread? That's classic Grade A history right there. It's a sort of magnet that takes the junk that would otherwise be posted in other threads and it collects there. Just because two people seem to use it most often doesn't mean that other haven't used it, or won't use it, again in the future.

And the Daily Rant is (well, was I guess) a sort of outlet. It sort of helps people get out what they're feeling and hopefully takes a bit of the stress off of them. That's the point of ranting isn't it? ;)

Since I can't exactly edit a post I can't see.......

Another point about Pointless Posts.... I've seen five people post on the last fivish pages. It's just favored by certain members :) Bring it back! :D

For us random people I would suggest we use the chat rooms for our randomness if we want to take it out of the arcade. It seems people use panheads.zoelife4u.org/chat instead of the one linked here.

For us random people I would suggest we use the chat rooms for our randomness if we want to take it out of the arcade. It seems people use panheads.zoelife4u.org/chat instead of the one linked here.



you suddenly lost 200 posts, lol.


i like how if you put your mouse over a post, it gives you a little info.....

Pointless posts is supposed to have usefulness?
but has long sense lost its original focus and usefulness.
Oh, yah. That makes sense.


I really don't understand why so many people care about post count around here...I was not posting in pointless posts, daily thrill/rant to get the post count up...I was doing it to talk to people and have fun. I think you guys could have at least left it open in the arcade.

I agree with ^^. I seriously didn't realize that the pointless posts, daily thrill, and daily rant weren't in the Arcade for the longest time. (Ok, I haven't been around for a long time, either) I learned a long time ago (on another forum) that it ain't about the post count. As long as I don't look like a newbie at 10 posts, I'm all good.


you suddenly lost 200 posts, lol.


i like how if you put your mouse over a post, it gives you a little info.....
I see that I Bite lost a lot, too...How about you? Lol. And giving post info...? I'm lost.

The whole issue with post count really had very little to do with it. For a while we weren't planning on moving the threads, just locking them. The real issue is that the threads in question were simple back-and-forth conversations between a very small group of people. There was no real discussion, just the kind of chatter you often see in chat rooms or IM.

It's a sort of magnet that takes the junk that would otherwise be posted in other threads and it collects there.
You're right, that is how it started. But then another "pointless" type of thread was started, and then another, and pretty soon we have a dozen of them. We talked for a very long time about this, and finally came to the conclusion that the best thing to do for now would be to get rid of them all and try to steer discussion back toward more substantial topics.

And the Daily Rant is (well, was I guess) a sort of outlet. It sort of helps people get out what they're feeling and hopefully takes a bit of the stress off of them. That's the point of ranting isn't it? ;)
I agree with you completely that getting things off your chest can be very cathartic at times, however that's not really what this thread is doing anymore. Rather it's become another variant of "pointless posts" that just happens to have a theme of complaining about stuff. If board members still feel the need for this kind of release, we are simply now asking that they take it elsewhere, that's all. There are countless other venues (myspace, personal blogs, whatever) that are more appropriate for this type of thing.

We were certainly aware that closing these threads would upset a small handful of people, but we are doing what we feel is best for the community as a whole. There have been concerns raised by a number of members in the past several months about the way the boards have been moderated. It may be that some of these new changes don't work out, but with Jade taking the lead on things a bit more, I think we are in a much better position to respond and adapt to that than when it was all on my shoulders.

I agree with you completely that getting things off your chest can be very cathartic at times, however that's not really what this thread is doing anymore. Rather it's become another variant of "pointless posts" that just happens to have a theme of complaining about stuff. If board members still feel the need for this kind of release, we are simply now asking that they take it elsewhere, that's all. There are countless other venues (myspace, personal blogs, whatever) that are more appropriate for this type of thing

so instead of locking them all up, couldn't we just have one pointless posts thread and have it be daily thrill/rant also? why wouldn't that work?

I see that I Bite lost a lot, too...

yup, i lost close to 2000...but like i said, i honestly could care less. post count is not important to me.

so instead of locking them all up, couldn't we just have one pointless posts thread and have it be daily thrill/rant also? why wouldn't that work?



yup, i lost close to 2000...but like i said, i honestly could care less. post count is not important to me.

i lost like 20 i think... oh well... lol

Jade, are you single??? :)

It's a sort of magnet that takes the junk that would otherwise be posted in other threads and it collects there.

Looks like that magnet has been malfunctioning since around, say, 2004.

I wouldn't say malfunctioning. I'd say less attractable items have barely passed beyond its field a few times.

*shrugs* I don't have too much of a problem with the changes. But I agree with Timmy that there should be a new skin.

*shrugs* I don't have too much of a problem with the changes. But I agree with Timmy that there should be a new skin.

If you and Timmy want a skin so badly, why don't you two make one yourself?

Jade - I like these changes. No complaints.

If you and Timmy want a skin so badly, why don't you two make one yourself?


1. I don't know how.

2. I'm too lazy to learn.

3. Do you really want a skin designed by me?

4. No you don't.

1. I don't know how.

Which is my point. Who here does? I don't, you don't. If anyone here knew how and had the time, they would have offered their services already. Yet noone has.

It seems that people complain when there isn't enough moderation. and then they complain when there's too much.

I think the changes are good.

It seems that people complain when there isn't enough moderation. and then they complain when there's too much.



QFT, nicked and sigged.

QFT, nicked and sigged.
Sorry, I have no idea what that means.

Here, i'll translate for you.

QFT = quoted for truth

nicked = stolen

sigged = put in signature

Just check out any posy by Scott (the one above will do) and you'll notice you're now quoted. :D Congrats!

And Timmy, Jade is already claimed. Lo siento, amigo.

I like the changes a lot. I like the description of the sub-categories. I like the way we can see active members. I think this was an awesome job. No complaints.

And I like this background. It has a papery sort of feeling. I'm not too into the idea of a Comatose background right now.

I will not rescind my comment. It malfunctioned, and had been for ages.

Here, i'll translate for you.

QFT = quoted for truth

nicked = stolen

sigged = put in signature

Just check out any posy by Scott (the one above will do) and you'll notice you're now quoted. :D Congrats!

And Timmy, Jade is already claimed. Lo siento, amigo.

dang... oh well. ;)


but about me making a skin, i would if i knew how. ive offered to help a few times, and Will never responded.

so instead of locking them all up, couldn't we just have one pointless posts thread and have it be daily thrill/rant also? why wouldn't that work?

To reiterate what I said in my original post ...

The randomness and off-topic nature that has run rampant is coming to a stop.

We do not see a need for pointless post/daily what have you on these boards anymore. Again as I said before, pointless posts no longer servers the purpose it was created for. I would know since I am the one who created it years ago.

but the only one that is missing is the new Skin.

We understand that a new skin is long over due. But as of right now a new skin is not in development. Why, you might ask? This stuff takes time. Rolling out the changes we just did took a considerable amount of time to work out. As of right now there are quite a few things that are higher up on the list to be done before a new skin is developed. So in the mean time, if you want a new look to the boards, select my personal favorite view of vBulletin 3. :)

Maybe on the old panheads forums, but after the merge I believe that it was mike actually that created the Pointless Posts thread, and I've seen it on various other boards too :P

http://www.panheads.org/boards/showpost.php?p=97364&postcount=311

The point is pointlessness (paradox!), but the off-topicness and pointlessness has gone too far. Hmm.... Doesn't make sense to me. Can you explain this please? The thread was being used as intended *shrugs*.

It seems that people complain when there isn't enough moderation. and then they complain when there's too much.

As for me at least, I was wanting more moderation in threads appearing here and there that shouldn't have been, and more effort put forth, not taking things apart that seem to be functioning perfectly fine *shrugs*.

~Seth

A quick addition of something Jade forgot to mention... we also locked all threads that have had no activity since January 1, 2006. Basically, we're trying to prevent a lot of the "grave-digging" that tends to happen, often by new members. This will be a slight change since this now means we will certainly have duplicate threads on occasion, simply because the original thread was dormant for long enough to be automatically locked. If it makes sense to unlock the old thread and merge the new discussion into it, we'll do so on a case-by-case basis.

If it makes sense to unlock the old thread and merge the new discussion into it, we'll do so on a case-by-case basis.

I can see this really happening with the band-related threads. Each time a band releases a new CD, there seems to be a bit of confusion where someone starts a new thread while there are 2 or 3 existing threads already dedicated to that band. Eventually, a mod takes notice, does a little merging, and we move on.

Perhaps, with respect to this particular situation that is likely to occur a few times every year, the staff should have a plan already in place for how they want to deal with it.

I'm good with the changes, but don't get rid of the arcade! It happened once at another forum and they lost like half the members... And if a new skin is due, I'm willing to look into that, if you so want.

Is the book club gone? Because I'm not listed on it anymore and can't find the option. So was that removed as one of the new changes?

There was a book club? Book clubs are cool. :P

So I notice that the "What are you listening to?" to thread is in the arcade section.

"It's all just fun and games... Get your fix of message board games or discuss the latest video games and platforms."

I don't think that is the best place to have it nor fit into that category. I don't consider it a game. I think its a way to know what your follow panhead's are listening to. I also sometimes checkout the bands I haven't heard of if someone shares what the are listening to.

That is just my opion.

i guess since this site is the propertry of the mods we shouldn't complain. anyone wanting to continue with the randomness go to pizza brains mb site http://skilletfanz.proboards80.com/index.cgi

Is the book club gone? Because I'm not listed on it anymore and can't find the option. So was that removed as one of the new changes?oops, guess we forgot to mention that one as well. A while back, Korey and Ben had talked about sharing some of the books they were reading and were going to try and pop in here every now and then if we wanted to read along. That didn't work out at the time, so we've removed the book club group for now since it's not serving any purpose. With no one to really lead that, it was just extra cruft, but we may look at trying it again sometime down the road.

I started an online club if anyone here is interested.

So I notice that the "What are you listening to?" to thread is in the arcade section.

"It's all just fun and games... Get your fix of message board games or discuss the latest video games and platforms."

I don't think that is the best place to have it nor fit into that category. I don't consider it a game. I think its a way to know what your follow panhead's are listening to. I also sometimes checkout the bands I haven't heard of if someone shares what the are listening to.

That is just my opion.
now this upsets me, that thread is property of music buzz. the only reason i could see for moving it to the arcade would be to eliminate it from the post count. if that is true, should the post count matter? who cares who posts the most? is it a race?

now this upsets me, that thread is property of music buzz. the only reason i could see for moving it to the arcade would be to eliminate it from the post count. if that is true, should the post count matter? who cares who posts the most? is it a race?
no, that was somewhat of a mistake that it got moved as it did. Jade or I will be saying more on that thread specifically soon.

should the post count matter? who cares who posts the most? is it a race?

The only way I can see post count mattering is that it shows which members are active and which are not.

is it a race?

No, races have an end. :P

So far I'm happy with the update. I like how when you put the mouse over a thread it shows some of the beginning so you know what it's about.

yeah me too......^

uhhhh....what happened today?

uhhhh....what happened today?

What do you mean?

Yeah dude. Nothing changed.:o Unless something secret popped up...:P

One of the criteria we've been using in closing threads recently is to try and identify those which are not really discussing anything per se. While there is some discussion in the What are you listening to (http://www.panheads.org/boards/showthread.php?t=1499) thread, the vast majority of it is just one person after another posting what they're listening to, sometimes it seems like on every track change. There are almost no replies, no feedback, no discussion. It is no longer a discussion thread, but simply a music notification hub. There are other resources (http://last.fm/) that actually provide this kind of service with many more features, and this type of thing would be more appropriate taken there.

By closing these ever-popular threads I predict that active membership will slow and diminish.

By closing these ever-popular threads I predict that active membership will slow and diminish.

This is true. But one could argue if they were just here to make useless posts then were they worth it?

Myself, I liked their shenanigans.

This is true. But one could argue if they were just here to make useless posts then were they worth it?

Myself, I liked their shenanigans.

one could also argue that those pointless threads could be driving away members

Over the last few days we've seen quite different reactions to the recent changes we've made. Some people have been pretty supportive, some haven't really cared one way or the other, but then others haven taken it as justification for lashing out on the boards in the form of deliberate spamming and de-railing of threads. We tried giving warnings at first, but ultimately have had to ban one member and put three others in the moderated group.

We are not interested in debating the merits/worth/worthiness/value of the threads that were closed. We discussed them for quite some time and decided unanimously that it was time for them to be retired. When it comes to making decisions in the management of such a large community, there is always a percentage of people that are not happy with the changes. Despite this, we continue to do what we think is in the best interest of the community as a whole. While we try to foster a community that is welcoming and appeals to Skillet's fan-base, we know it's not going to be right for everyone and understand that another community on the net may be a better fit for some people.

Despite the backlash of a small handful of users, we still feel these changes will better the community in the long run.

one could also argue that those pointless threads could be driving away members

Touché.


Despite the backlash of a small handful of users, we still feel these changes will better the community in the long run.

And that's all that really matters. But in the short run there's always going to be some complaint. Change frightens people. :P

I actually like the way conversations keep flowing on-topic now.

just wondering, who got banned?

Who got banned is not important.

Just to let you know...I was a part of another board, and the same kind of thing happened. It seemed as if 500-1000 (I'm not really sure:P) people out of the couple thousand had a sort of 'rebellion', me included. Some people started a new board a rarely came back, many others, like me, left at least for a while. I rarely participate there now. I have changed my likings in board posting, but I feel for the others since I was one of them, and still have it in me.

Who got banned is not important.

maybe not to you...

Who got banned is not important.

To you the person isn't but to those of us that might be intrested in keeping in contact with the person yes it is.

If that person is truly someone you would be interested in keeping in contact with, you will notice their missing presence on the boards and can send them an email or IM. For all you know, it could've been someone you don't ever talk to on here.

I can only imagine a handful of us realizing only months down the road who the person was and feeling extremely bad about forgetting about them and missing out on months of terrific friendship.

If that person is truly someone you would be interested in keeping in contact with, you will notice their missing presence on the boards and can send them an email or IM. For all you know, it could've been someone you don't ever talk to on here.

Considering the number of people that disapear for weeks on end

It seemed as if 500-1000 people out of the couple thousand had a sort of 'rebellion'

Yes, but we at panheads.org are not the rebellious type. We're either too lazy or we just don't rebel against anything. Plus, all that happened were five threads (or so) got locked and some member accounts were deleted, big woop. Its not the end of the world. (http://www.msss.com/earth/earth.gif)

maybe not to you...
To you the person isn't but to those of us that might be intrested in keeping in contact with the person yes it is.
I can only imagine a handful of us realizing only months down the road who the person was and feeling extremely bad about forgetting about them and missing out on months of terrific friendship.

If this person did something worthy of being banned, that's their own fault. Any friendship missed out is the banned persons fault.

The Mods are under no obligation to publically announce who got banned and why, that's between them and the person in question. Should a situation arise that requires the entire board being aware of (I dunno... a 40yr old sicko stalking teenage girls?) then I'm sure they'll let you know who and why.

Its not the end of the world. (http://www.msss.com/earth/earth.gif)

I like the link....Lol. A few have found a rebellious nature in themselves, though. Not totally, and not a lot of them, but some.

And Skynes is right. Its best to keep who was banned confidential, unless its some stalker trying to come after you. Even then it might just be a matter of contacting the athorities. But I'm sure that is not the case.

It has been a week now since the changes and I think we have pretty much beat this dead horse into the ground. :)

With that I am going to close this thread. All of the issues have been addressed multiple times, and now it is just bickering. If let alone, I'm sure this thread could go on forever. Instead, we are moving forward with the development of the next set of changes.