frymeskillet
04-04-2007, 01:58 PM
Lam 1:1 How doth the city sit solitary, that was full of people! how is she become as a widow! she that was great among the nations, and princess among the provinces, how is she become tributary!

I am focusing mainly on the first part of this verse. I found this while flipping to Genesis one day. It's about the city of Jerusalem and the miseries it suffered. I immediately started crying and realized that God had given me this verse. I've had a gigantic burden to win souls lately. I just can't seem to rise above my flesh and win souls for God. I took this verse as a direct word from God that I need to do it, for my soul's sake.

What do you think about this verse? Are there any other verses about Soul winning that could help me? Any other comments towards the verse and soul winning altogether are welcome as well.
Please keep me in your prayers that I may do God's work.

The Lamma
04-04-2007, 08:10 PM
I'll have to give you right now is this: Don't over try in your goal to win souls!! Trying is sweet, but if you try too hard in everything, you're more likely to mess up. Take it easy, and take the opportunities as they come, don't force it. At least until you come up with some sort of ministry. But I'll keep you in my prayers.

skynes
04-05-2007, 03:12 AM
Lam 1:1 How doth the city sit solitary, that was full of people! how is she become as a widow! she that was great among the nations, and princess among the provinces, how is she become tributary!

I am focusing mainly on the first part of this verse. I found this while flipping to Genesis one day. It's about the city of Jerusalem and the miseries it suffered. I immediately started crying and realized that God had given me this verse. I've had a gigantic burden to win souls lately. I just can't seem to rise above my flesh and win souls for God. I took this verse as a direct word from God that I need to do it, for my soul's sake.

What do you think about this verse? Are there any other verses about Soul winning that could help me? Any other comments towards the verse and soul winning altogether are welcome as well.
Please keep me in your prayers that I may do God's work.

I share in your burden.

Isaiah 55:11 "So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it. "

Our job is to give the Word of God to people. It's God's job from then on.

Parable of the sower is Luke 8. I'll summarise:

12: "Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved."

The devil will stop some from being saved. So pray that he cannot touch their hearts.

13: "But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away."

These people are not rooted in Christ at all. They go entirely upon emotions, never counting the cost of serving Christ. To counter-act this, I tell interested people (before they accept Christ)that their lives will never be the same, their desires and choices will change. Some things will be even harder than before. But through it all Christ stands with you.

I do that, because I don't want to deceive anyone into Christ. I want them to be fully aware of what they are doing and the consequences of their choice.

14: "Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity."

I can't help but think this has something to do with your surroundings and associates. 7: "And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up with it and choked it." Just that this isn't the fault of the plant, but the thorns surrounding it.

Is it possible this person didn't have enough Christian associates to keep going? Probably not... or Jesus would have said something. Then I would say this is their environment.

e.g. A guy in a highly successful business, where employees are dog eat dog to get the promotions. It's clearly not a Christian envionment and this guy would get caught up in the buzz of the business rather than doing anything about Christ.

I don't know how to respond to this one. I've never encountered it.

15: "But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience"

-------------------

The death of the plants is not the fault of the sower. If you give the word of God to someone, and they reject it. This is NOT your fault. They chose to reject this Word, they are at blame.


I've started (slowly) stepping up the pace of my own work. I'll tell you how I do it. Maybe it will give you ideas. I warn you beforehand that this is mostly opinion oriented. It's how my personality works, my environment, my contacts and my way of speech. So it might be entirely contrary to how you do things.


Firstly I don't just get in there and give people the Gospel. I could do it, but I see it as useless. When Jesus spoke to people, He liked to speak 1 on 1. Speaking to them where they are, with words and terms relative to them. In essence He spoke to what was important to them. If wealth held them back, He told them. If they were near the kingdom, He told them.

Paul and Peter used a similar strategy when preaching. Peter when speaking to the Jews, preached from the law. Jews ate, slept and drank the law. So Peter didn't need to tell them "You're sinners!", they knew. Peter gave them the Good News.

When Paul spoke to the pagans. He used one of their own idols "the unknown God" as a basis for it. He started with Genesis and the creation, then moved into law and judgement, before giving the Gospel.

So when talking to people I shift depending on the topic. Music is an important topic to many people, as it is to me. So when talking of music, I'll talk of the Christian bands I love, maybe let the person hear them if possible. This is to do multiple things.

1. It tells them I'm a Christian. I find telling people that awkward, do you just walk up and say "Hi, I'm a Christian"... ehh no. This way I'm telling them it, but not throwing it in their face or anything.

2. Destroy pre-suppositions. People have an idea of what Christian music is like. Soft, soppy churchy stuff. So when I play Demon Hunter and Extol, they're surprised.

3. Gets Christ into the convo!

That's generally how I do it. Introduce Christ into it through other discussions. I don't want to throw it in their faces, but neither do I want to ignore it. So I slowly work it in, while I analyse responses and see what their attitude to it all is. I use that to gauge further convo. If they're very open about it, then so shall I. If they've had bad experiences, I'll relate to it.


W00t for the longest post of all time. Lol.


finally, I'll keep you in prayer.

frymeskillet
04-05-2007, 05:00 AM
In reply to The Lamma, What I meant when I said winning souls is more or less inviting them to church.

With that said, Skynes, I really needed to hear some of that. My problem isn't necessarily talking to the person about God, I talk to multiple people about God and being a Christian. My problem is, as said before, the step of inviting them to church or to hang out with me and my friends. I find my flesh screaming at me when it comes to approaching someone, and when it comes to inviting them to church. My flesh screams that they won't want to hear it, so what's the use? It says that I'll say all the wrong things, and I'll run them off, it tells me that I can't do it.
I know these things aren't true. The bible says that God will give me the words to say when it comes down to it...can't remember the exact verse that says that, butI know he will. I know that when I do overcome my fear of rejection that it won't be bad at all.

That being said, I have a gigantic fear of rejection that has haunted me for as long as I have lived. I guess the prayers should be for me to overcome it once and for all. I've come a long way since being an enormously shy child, but I struggle with it harder than ever now that I have been Christian for a while.

Thank you both for your prayers, I really do appreciate them.

skynes
04-05-2007, 07:08 AM
Personal opinion here. I don't like the idea of inviting unbelievers to church. Why? Cause it's not for them.

The average church service should be about equipping the Saints and worshipping God. Not giving the Gospel, that is (generally) something each of us should do individually.

1 Cor 14 "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

What will an unbeliever gain from going to a service where spiritual things are taught which their fleshly mind can't understand?

You can have outreach events, where the whole purpose is to invite unbelievers. My old church ran a drop in centre for teenagers with outreach in mind.

But Sunday morning church is not about outreach. If all a church does is outreach, you're going to have an army of untrained, unlearned baby Christians.


So practically what can you do? When talking to someone about God, why don't you ask them what stopping them from accepting Christ? If they know the Gospel (cause you've told) and know of sin, judgement and Christ's mercy, what stops them?

That'll give you something to pray about for them

frymeskillet
04-05-2007, 12:25 PM
That's completely true. I really hadn't planned on inviting them immediately to church, God knows the trouble that'd cause, but inviting them first to hang out with me and my other friends. Let them get exposed to the idea of church and let it minister to them before I make the big step of asking them to attend church.
My youth group has this meeting of sorts on Monday nights, we use it to become better Christians through the help of each other, through prayer, and through ourselves getting up and talking in front of everyone. That is the main place I would invite them first. Of course we might lighten the mood and do something a little less serious if we knew we had a guest coming.
Anyways, I'll take your advice about asking them what's stopping them...most people I have talked to just come right out and say it, immediately on the defense. That's another thing that is hard to overcome. I know you can't convince everyone that God is right for them, but it makes it so much harder when they are immediately ready with comebacks to everything you say. But, yeah...

Will do. :)

skynes
04-05-2007, 12:41 PM
I know you can't convince everyone that God is right for them

Thus the beauty of that verse in Isaiah. You don't have to convince anyone of anything.

but it makes it so much harder when they are immediately ready with comebacks to everything you say

Learn the comebacks and the responses to them then.

My youth group has this meeting of sorts on Monday nights, we use it to become better Christians through the help of each other, through prayer, and through ourselves getting up and talking in front of everyone. That is the main place I would invite them first.

See this is what I meant. That Monday night thing is for Christians, not for unbelievers. An event for the building up and training of Christians does nothing for unbelievers..

.. However...

This might tickle your fancy.

Why don't your Youth Group get together and organise an outreach event? Music, food, and people of the group giving their testimonies. You know, something ALL your group can invite their unsaved friends to.

frymeskillet
04-05-2007, 08:18 PM
You know Scott, there is not one thing I can stump you with. Yes, I should do this and that, I know for a fact that I should. Yes, I could do all of those things, it would help tremendously. One thing still stands in the way, however, and that is self. I love myself way to much sometimes to break down and do the things I should do, but make excuses of why I can't do them. And until I can get rid of self, I cannot do anything worth while. Let's take this one step at a time, shall we? :D

frymeskillet
04-09-2007, 08:35 PM
I heard a sermon that really slapped me in the face last night. It was something I really needed to hear. It was a sermon from an annual preacher's conference called "Because of the Times". The evangelist preaching, Dr. Gerald Jeffers, preached a message entitled "Condemnation Interferes with Intimacy"

He spoke of the step-by-step 'system' of winning souls that we all use, how we often use guilt and condemnation. The whole fire and brimstone, look-at-the-stuff-you've-done way. Sure, it's worked, but what he said next is what got me. He talked about how we obsess ourselves too much in the works of God, and that we often forget who those works are for. He talked about how we want to be a Christian for the things that God will give us back, the comfort and the strength, the courage. He used a great analogy.

He talked about your relationship between God in a very intimate way (as with man and wife). This may get a little explicit, but it really portrays things the way it should be.
He said that praising God is like flirting, blowing kisses at him. Then when it comes time to worship you put on God's favorite cologne, the incense of prayer. God will beckon you into his bedroom. He said that once we get inside the bedroom of God, that we must lay down and surrender ourselves. Only when we shed ourselves of the armor we acquire, rid ourselves of all clothing and things that will hinder God's work will he finally impregnate us. He will open us up, plant a seed of ministry inside of our bodies. Then that seed will grow and we'll give birth to a wonderful work of God.

He talked about how often a husband is jealous of his child, because all the mother talks about is the child, what it needs, why it needs it, how good it's doing, and the things wrong that need fixing. The husband no longer receives the attention he once had before the child. This is often like God and us. We upheld God on the highest, but once we got that baby Christian we received from God, that's all we talk about. What the baby needs, what it wants, why it needs it, what's wrong with it, its financing, its well being. We then obsess ourselves with the works of God, and not the God of works. He said that God had told him to not make him jealous of his own child. That really got me.

He also talked about how we condemn ourselves. We look at the things we should be doing and are not doing instead of the things we are doing and what we are succeeding in. I realized then that I had been kicking myself around for nothing. We do not need to condemn ourselves for what we aren't doing right. We simply need to make them become different through seeking God. He then said how we need to take our rest. The fourth commandment says the remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. This is for keeping our rest. Sometimes we just need to sit back and relax in the presence of God. We need to let go of the things we are constantly worrying about and just let God have them. We are constantly running around frantically worrying about what we need to do next. That's the wrong thing to do.

The point I'm getting to is that I was wanting to win souls for all of the wrong reasons. I wanted to win a soul, truthfully, for my well being. I know that I won't be looking good when I reach those gates without a soul to claim. I wanted to get a soul before it was too late. I realize now that I must not worry about what I need to do next and just pray. I need to surrender my every will to God and let him impregnate me with a seed. I need not to let the seed and the birth of a ministry get in my view of God. What I was doing was worrying too much about the works of God and not even realizing the neglect I had been giving to the God that I was supposed to be doing the works for.

So for now I am just going to rest in God. I am going to praise. I am going to worship, I'm going to put on God's favorite perfume and wait for him to beckon me into his room. I will surrender every piece of armor and let him impregnate me with the birth of a ministry, and then I will win the souls I have longed to bring in.


If you would like to hear the full sermon, you can order the CD of it here. (http://www.whitesteeple.com/bo20coinwiin.html)

-Savannah-

skynes
04-10-2007, 03:33 AM
I'll be forward right now and say something in my spirit does not like this. It sounds as though he is taking modern family relations and forcing those onto God.

Where is the scriptural support?
I've seen nothing in scripture that speaks of what he's saying?

He talked about how we want to be a Christian for the things that God will give us back, the comfort and the strength, the courage.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Turning to Christ to avoid the wrath to come is the most sensible reason to be a Christian.

He talked about how often a husband is jealous of his child, because all the mother talks about is the child, what it needs, why it needs it, how good it's doing, and the things wrong that need fixing.

Not scriptural. Not at all.

Colossians 1:9 "For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; "

2 Thes 1:11 "Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power, "

Seems Paul was going against what this guy taught.

He said that God had told him to not make him jealous of his own child.

God will tell a person nothing that contradicts scripture. I would definitely like to see the support for this one.

The point I'm getting to is that I was wanting to win souls for all of the wrong reasons. I wanted to win a soul, truthfully, for my well being. I know that I won't be looking good when I reach those gates without a soul to claim.

1 Cor 9:24-25

24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it.

25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown.

Philippians 3: 14 " press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. "

Paul didn't see a problem with making the rewards a priority.

If wanting to save a soul for the reward is wrong, what is the right reason?

I need to surrender my every will to God and let him impregnate me with a seed.

That metaphor may work on a girl, but to a guy... that's ... just wrong, lol.

I need not to let the seed and the birth of a ministry get in my view of God.

I believe people's idea of ministry is a bit messed up. It is not something you go to college for, then get paid at a church to do. You see the old lady that cleans up the church? Or the person who makes the tea and coffee after service? THAT is a ministry. The person who lays out the chairs? THAT is a ministry. The person who encourages others for no other reason than to do it? THAT is a ministry.

If you looked at your life that way, you'd probably see you already have a ministry.

I will surrender every piece of armor

I don't like this phrase. Going on Ephesians 6 nothing says anything about removing our armour. Our salvation and righteousness are our armour. This guy wants you to remove it?


The core of his message: Keep your focus on God and not on what you're doing for God.

That is completely correct. It's easy to caught up in the works and ignore God.

But you see his metaphors? They stank.

Unregistered
04-10-2007, 02:40 PM
That metaphor may work on a girl, but to a guy... that's ... just wrong, lol.

That's exactly what I was thinking, LOL.

To be honest, and don't ask me why, but I find the term "winning souls" derogatory. I don't try to "win souls," not ever. I like to help and guide people down the path that God has set before them, whatever it may be. I would like to convince some people of the truth behind my faith, but I know deep down that's impossible for me to do -- without God. I am kinda hoping deep down that I might, to use the common term, "win someone over for God," but it may just be that, in the end (for me), I am meant to help those who already have laid their lives down to Christ and keep them on the path.

Everybody has a purpose and a meaning, every action -- down to the littlest movement -- effects the future. That's my view.

frymeskillet
04-10-2007, 08:18 PM
The message is what I was trying to get across. The metaphors may have stunk to you, but they really made sense to me and helped me understand the facts better. Of course, I could not come up with everything he said verbatim. He used scriptural backup. I usually take notes on sermons to go back and look up the verses used, but I didn't on this one. I really honestly couldn't tell you the ones he used, but he did have them. As for the jealousy thing, I remember him saying that God gave that to him, no actual scriptural backup for that one.

All I can say is that to get exactly what he was saying, you need to hear it for yourself. Which, of course, only reaches to US and Canada ordering wise...not too much help there.

But otherwise, it helped me. Forgive me for being blunt, but I really don't care if it makes sense to you or if you agree with it. I know it was the truth, and I know this because of the things I felt when I heard it. I couldn't stop crying and this spirit of conviction came over me. All I know is that it was from God, I could definitely tell in my own spirit if it was or not.

skynes
04-11-2007, 03:42 AM
Forgive me for being blunt, but I really don't care if it makes sense to you or if you agree with it.

Lol, that's fine.

I know it was the truth, and I know this because of the things I felt when I heard it. I couldn't stop crying and this spirit of conviction came over me. All I know is that it was from God, I could definitely tell in my own spirit if it was or not.


So what do you plan on doing then? Cutting out the metaphors, lol.

Knowing this...

I usually take notes on sermons to go back and look up the verses used, but I didn't on this one. I really honestly couldn't tell you the ones he used, but he did have them.

...does help. I'll put my disliking down to chinese whispers. :P

I did look at the site and it is America only (stupid postal service...).

I just thought there I wonder if Sermonaudio have it... But if they did they wouldn't be charging for it elsewhere.

**checked sermonaudio. They don't have it.

bob
04-11-2007, 04:15 AM
I believe people's idea of ministry is a bit messed up. It is not something you go to college for, then get paid at a church to do. You see the old lady that cleans up the church? Or the person who makes the tea and coffee after service? THAT is a ministry. The person who lays out the chairs? THAT is a ministry. The person who encourages others for no other reason than to do it? THAT is a ministry.


Exactly man. Kevin Young from Disciple used to write an explanation of his song lyrics inside their album booklets and he once stated "if you interact with one person in a day, you have a ministry." Just because you aren't a speaker who gets to talk to 15,000+ people in one single event doesn't mean anything. :)

Yes, I know it is a side step from the whole metaphor, but I still found it releveant.

Voice of Truth
04-11-2007, 08:02 AM
That being said, I have a gigantic fear of rejection that has haunted me for as long as I have lived. I guess the prayers should be for me to overcome it once and for all. I've come a long way since being an enormously shy child, but I struggle with it harder than ever now that I have been Christian for a while.

Thank you both for your prayers, I really do appreciate them.

Friend, that right there is Pride. You have fear of rejection. Do not fear anything, God has made you an over-comer! I can speak to Pirde as an issue, God works with me on it every day. My pastor recently did a series on shyness and rejection issues. They are both Pride, they take us away from our goal. Pride is the trap that Satan lays to keep us from winning souls for Christ.

This is what I try to do when I am approaching someone, Listen to God, if he is telling you to speak to someone, it is because that person's heart has already been prepared for the message you are about to give..




Isaiah 55:10-12

10 As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,

11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

12 You will go out in joy
and be led forth in peace;
the mountains and hills
will burst into song before you,
and all the trees of the field
will clap their hands.

Voice of Truth
04-11-2007, 10:48 PM
I am sorry, I forgot the most important part of my rantings.

You will be in my prayers. Pride is a big part of self, we need to continue to die out to self. More of Him and less of me.

theelectric3
04-13-2007, 11:58 AM
something i find really helpful in the terms of ministry is this.

Jesus won on the cross.
the Holy Spirit convicts to righteousness.


all i have to do is share what Jesus has done for me... and love them with the love of Christ (unconditional, no manipulation, etc.).

there is freedom there knowing that i cannot save anyone.

Jesus is the Savior. :)

frymeskillet
04-13-2007, 01:46 PM
You will be in my prayers. Pride is a big part of self, we need to continue to die out to self. More of Him and less of me.

Thank you for your prayers and for giving some advice.



In reference to the sermon, "Condemnation Interferes With Intimacy" that I was talking about...we watched it again and I got a chance to take some good notes.

John 3:17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


- Soul winning can give a person a great passion, but when that passion becomes too strong, the spirit of condemnation and guilt arrives. All to often we use guilt to serve as a reason to get people into church.

Matthew 7:21-23: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

- We find that many in the end of days, a lot of people will be pointing to ministry for validation. Our works that we do for God will not be substantial alone to let us enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

- It seems sometimes that we are seeking God's hand in things, for him to guide us..when we really should be seeking his face.

- God saved you not to win souls, but to be a wife unto him...and through your love for him you would win souls for him.

Genesis 15:1: After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.


- We find ourselves way too often praying for a soul to win (or a ministry to begin) and after God does reward us with the ministry, we then do nothing but talk about the ministry he gave us. When will we decide just to talk to God about the relationship between you and Him.

2 Corinthians 11:2: For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

- This is in reference to the analogy from before about God being jealous over his own child...when we only talk about the needs of our ministry and not just talking to God.

- We are putting too much emphasis on ministry and not on our relationship with God.

- Again, God wants you to be his bride.

- He gave another analogy that God showed him in a vision:
The Bride of Christ is one body (his people) and you are just but one of the trillion cells in that body. Each cell has a will of it's one and can survive on it's own...but it must surrender it's will to the body and work with the other cells to keep the bride alive.

- Warfare in part is empowered by a love affair. (Your love affair with Christ and the analogy from before)

- God gives us a will to resist the devil. That will to resist is given to us through strength. Our will of strength comes from the joy put into us by the presence of God surrounding us.

Therefore: God's Presence = Joy = Strength = Power to Resist Devil.

-------

- Prayer has become a duty for us, instead of a love for God. He wants you to talk to him because you love him, not because you are afraid of what will happen if you don't pray. If you know him, then you will become more like him.

- God asked Peter if he loved him, Peter answered yes, and God said, then feed my sheep. Peter went straight to feeding the sheep and forgot about the first part. You must love God wholeheartedly first before you can feed his sheep. Do not do it out of fear or fear of failure, or to flee from condemnation. Do it for love.

- God did not come to condemn us, as in the first verse, but to love you.

- Ministry is a biproduct of intimacy. Seek God for God, not for the things he will give you in turn for seeking him.

- If you are too tied up in trying to find and save lost sheep, you might just lose the Shepard.

-------

- God told us to rest, and it was a command, not an option.

- We sometimes let our burdens for the Lord push us into disobedience when he tells us to rest and we are trying to get up continue being frantic about what we have to do.

- We become so busy with works of the Lord, that we forget to spend time with the Lord of the works.

- Spending time with the ministry is not spending time with God.







Hope that helps some understanding. Also, I have the audio on a CD, if you really want to hear it and can't order it for various reasons...I'd be glad to send it in the mail or something...

-Savannah-

skynes
04-14-2007, 04:37 AM
Thank you very much, that all sounds much better now.

frymeskillet
04-17-2007, 01:55 PM
You're Welcome :)

lamb_servant72
06-03-2007, 04:53 AM
Savannah, you said in your first post that you cried when you read the scripture in Lamentations. But, later you said you thought you only wanted to win souls for your own personal reasons. It sounded to me in your first post that you have been given this hunger from God. Someone else could read that same scripture, and the Holy Spirit could speak to them about something different. I think you have been given as an evangelist.

It sounds like unregistered has been given as a pastor:


I am kinda hoping deep down that I might, to use the common term, "win someone over for God," but it may just be that, in the end (for me), I am meant to help those who already have laid their lives down to Christ and keep them on the path.

Everybody has a purpose and a meaning, every action -- down to the littlest movement -- effects the future. That's my view.



Ephesians 4:11-12 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping (perfecting) of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ.

This scripture also explains what Scott was saying about the purpose of the church. (Scott, I always thought of you as more of the apostle type.)

I heard an illustration that helped me understand more the role of the pastor. (I grew up in a church where one man did it all...so this five fold ministry idea was new to me.) A guy said the pastor is like the sheppard who picks the briars off the sheep when they come in from the pasture (the world). He annoints them with oil so that they can resist picking up more briars. He feeds them, etc.

Just as a side note, the five work together for the equipping of the saints. I know you, Savannah, or anyone else on this thread, haven't eluded to anything like, "If you don't have a deep passion for winning souls, you are not living for God." But, I went to a church like that once...so I feel a need to hop on that soap box every now and then. :)

skynes
06-03-2007, 08:35 AM
(Scott, I always thought of you as more of the apostle type.)

As in the going off to farflung places to plant churches Apostle?

lamb_servant72
06-03-2007, 08:47 AM
I was looking at more of the desire of the apostle to get The Word exactly right...the foundation of the church. The apostle makes sure the "government" of the church is running correctly.

You cannot stand for scripture to be taken out of context, or to not be taken literally. You have challenged me to study more deeply things that I thought I grasped. You really want to get The Word right...and you don't go by what other people tell you it means.

I can see how that would include some aspects of evangelism and teaching, but to me that is a big part of being an apostle.

skynes
06-03-2007, 09:46 AM
You cannot stand for scripture to be taken out of context, or to not be taken literally. You have challenged me to study more deeply things that I thought I grasped. You really want to get The Word right...and you don't go by what other people tell you it means.

That's part of an Apostle? *shrug* Didn't know.

I'm not the travel around and set up churches type. I hate travelling... so I figured apostle wasn't really me.

lamb_servant72
06-03-2007, 10:31 AM
An apostle can be a "missionary"...traveling around and establishing churches, but that is not the only definition of an apostle.

An apostle (paraphrasing dictionary.com...and leaving out the already mentioned definition) is a pioneer of any reform movement, the title of the highest official in a sect, and, according to Easton's Bible Dictionary, "It [is] essential that they should be infallibly inspired, and thus secured against all error and mistake in their public teaching, whether by word or by writing (John 14:26; 16:13; 1 Thess 2:13)."

The Lamma
06-03-2007, 06:02 PM
In the Bible, the apostles were the head of the church, like Lisa said. Paul, in his letters, often wrote to the churches in how the need to change and stuff, to get the scripture right, they're way of life right. Is that what you were thinking, Lisa?

frymeskillet
06-25-2007, 03:04 PM
Thank you, Lisa, for saying that. I've been called to the Music Ministry by God, and as of right now am waiting on him to direct me in the right path towards this.