bob
04-11-2007, 05:07 AM
I don't know if you've ever heard of this organization, but the temple mount faithful (http://www.templemountfaithful.org/) movement is a group of jewish citizens in Israel that are dead set on building the third temple, they even have cornerstones to set up the temple. What they propose is to pick the Dome of the Rock up and move it to Mecca so they can build the temple in its original position, which the nation of Islam would never go for, they've threatened war if Israel so much as touches it. I mean, if you would've told someone prior to 1947 that the Jews would regain a nation you would've been thought to be crazy.

A temple is mentioned in the book of Revelation (Revelation 11:1-2) so that indicates that a third temple would have to be built since the second was destroyed. A lot of other prophecies lie on the rebuilding of the temple. The major obstacle is the Dome of the Rock but I've read several reports that have said that earthquakes and construction activity around the site by muslims have weakened the structural intergrity of the Dome so that an earthquake might be able to take the dome out.

Even if you don't think the temple will be rebuilt sometime soon you must admit it is interesting none the less. Really the only thing that's missing from Israel is the will to build the temple, but the movement is growing and you never know what could happen in the future.

NightCrawler
04-11-2007, 06:35 AM
Define "near," because Jesus is coming "soon"...

bob
04-11-2007, 06:38 AM
Define "near," because Jesus is coming "soon"...

Touche.

Well, if I was to hazard a guess I'd say that I wouldn't be surprised if there was a new temple built or under construction within the next 25 years.

Tromos
04-11-2007, 08:00 AM
And yet, when Jesus claimed He would "tear down the Temple and rebuild it in three days", he was speaking allegorically and the Temple he was talking about was not the one people thought.

Are you so sure that you know what the Temple in question is?

bob
04-11-2007, 08:04 AM
Are you so sure that you know what the Temple in question is?

Yes, like I said in the book of Revelation in chapter 11 God asked John to measure the temple, John being with God at the moment and seeing the future. Currently there is no temple, so there'd have to be a temple for John to measure wouldn't there? The anti-christ is mentioned in 2nd Thessalonians 2: 3-4, mentioning that he's going to sit on the throne of themple and declare himself as God. How could he do that without a temple existing?

Voice of Truth
04-11-2007, 08:08 AM
Maybe the temple he is speaking of is the heart of a person?

bob
04-11-2007, 08:26 AM
Maybe the temple he is speaking of is the heart of a person?

No no no! The temple was an actual, real thing. It was built by Solomon which is heavily detailed in 1 Kings 6, destroyed by the Baylonians (2 Chronicles 36:21), rebuilt (Ezra 3), and then destroyed again by the Romans in AD 70. I don't think a metaphor would be that vase and extensive.

Aragornsgirl217
04-11-2007, 08:43 AM
I'm inclined to agree with Bob. Somewhere in Revelation (I'd have to go and get my Bible to tell you exactly), it talks about that after the Anti-Christ has rebuilt the temple, s/he will defile it. I know that Revelation is a book of metaphors and of mysteries, but I think that the Temple will be the real deal.

And to answer your initial question Bob: I believe that the Temple will be built here shortly. After Christ comes back and 3 1/2 years and all that jazz...but...yeah.

~Nickie

The Lamma
04-11-2007, 11:44 AM
And yet, when Jesus claimed He would "tear down the Temple and rebuild it in three days",

He didn't say He would. He said he could.

And I don't think it will happen in the next ten years or so( maybe a bit less), but after that, who knows?

NightCrawler
04-13-2007, 11:27 AM
He didn't say He would. He said he could.

And I don't think it will happen in the next ten years or so( maybe a bit less), but after that, who knows?
Actually, not entirely right. Jesus said he WILL, the false witnesses said he COULD.

Matthew 26:61 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=26&verse=61&version=31&context=verse)
Finally two came forward and declared, "This fellow said, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.' "

But what Jesus really said this:

John 2
(http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=2&version=31&context=chapter)18Then the Jews demanded of him, "What miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?"
19Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." 20The Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" 21But the temple he had spoken of was his body. 22After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

bob
04-14-2007, 07:45 PM
Right, right, right. But I'm not talking about Jesus' body. I'm talking about the temple of the LORD which was built by Solomon originally.

terrasin
04-14-2007, 08:06 PM
Because of the issues between Israel and Palestine, I wouldn't expect it to begin within our lifetime... considering that was has been going on for what, 2,000 years? :P

CJ

bob
04-14-2007, 11:09 PM
Because of the issues between Israel and Palestine, I wouldn't expect it to begin within our lifetime


Yeah, but no one throught Israel was going to be a nation again after AD 70 and they reformed again in 1947. I figure if that's possible then anything is.

skynes
04-15-2007, 04:08 AM
Because of the issues between Israel and Palestine, I wouldn't expect it to begin within our lifetime... considering that was has been going on for what, 2,000 years?

Haven't the issues between Israel and Palestine been going on since the time of Joshua?

Tromos
04-15-2007, 08:47 AM
Right, right, right. But I'm not talking about Jesus' body. I'm talking about the temple of the LORD which was built by Solomon originally.

I get that. But I'm saying that your interpretation of 2 Thes 4 and the like as a real building may be misled. Maybe, like the Pharisees, you have misinterpreted the "Temple" in question.

bob
04-15-2007, 08:55 AM
I get that. But I'm saying that your interpretation of 2 Thes 4 and the like as a real building may be misled. Maybe, like the Pharisees, you have misinterpreted the "Temple" in question.

In 2 Thess 4 Paul says that the anti-christ is going to sit on the throne in the temple. So you're saying the anti-christ is going to sit on Jesus?

Tromos
04-15-2007, 04:21 PM
In 2 Thess 4 Paul says that the anti-christ is going to sit on the throne in the temple. So you're saying the anti-christ is going to sit on Jesus?

No. But if the Pharisees could misunderstand the temple Jesus was talking about, then we could misunderstand the temple Paul's talking about. Maybe the temple is the institution of the church and the antichrist will sit at its head. The Lutherans have been claiming that the Pope is the antichrist called for in 2 Thes 4 for the last 500 years for that very reason.

bob
04-15-2007, 05:35 PM
Then why would God ask John to measure the temple court yards in Revelation 11?

Tromos
04-16-2007, 06:35 AM
Why is it necessarily the same temple? Revelation 11 specifically calls out for the measurement of God's temple and altar. Perhaps 2 Thes 4 and Rev 11 aren't talking about the same temple.

bob
04-16-2007, 10:03 AM
So taking that train of thought:

When Jesus said in Matthew 24:2

And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Maybe he wasn't talking about the temple of the Lord. Even though that exact thing happened to the temple in AD 70.

Do you agree with me as much as to say that all the references to the temple in the Old Testament were referring to the Temple of the Lord?

Tromos
04-16-2007, 07:24 PM
Do you agree with me as much as to say that all the references to the temple in the Old Testament were referring to the Temple of the Lord?

*laugh*

You'll have to pardon me, Bob. I'm an auditor by profession.

No, I won't agree to that without looking at all of the references and considering them one by one.

The OT has a number of places that are meant to identify both immediate concrete situations as well as future, more ambiguous ones. The prophets can be especially vague and sometimes it's very hard to tell if they are talking about 20 years in the future or 200.

So sorry. My auditing nature won't allow me to make a blanket statement like that. Call it a personal failure, if you like. ;)

bob
04-16-2007, 07:36 PM
Its the same temple regardless if its 20 years in the future or 200.

The Lamma
04-16-2007, 07:37 PM
I know you guys don't like it that much when I say this...But what if none of it is literal?

bob
04-16-2007, 07:38 PM
I know you guys don't like it that much when I say this...But what if none of it is literal?

Okay, why wouldn't the temple of the Lord be literal. The entire building of it described in 1 Kings was just a metaphor? Not possible.

The Lamma
04-16-2007, 07:41 PM
I didn't mean none. I meant some, mainly the NT stuff. Sorry for that mess-up...

Tromos
04-17-2007, 10:11 AM
I know you guys don't like it that much when I say this...But what if none of it is literal?

That's essentially the question I've been asking.

And Bob, for the record so we can establish the friendliness of this discussion, I'm totally playing devil's advocate here. I don't want you to think that I'm demeaning you or your position. I'm just challenging it because I am, partially, in agreement with you and I want to push us both to support our positions with Biblical proof.

The Lamma
04-17-2007, 11:02 AM
Pushing is good in discussions. It makes people bring in a better defense. When you actually really need it, its gonna be quite helpful.

Tromos
04-17-2007, 11:11 AM
Pushing is good in discussions. It makes people bring in a better defense. When you actually really need it, its gonna be quite helpful.

Within reason. Our love for our Christian brother or sister has to maintain precedence over our love for our opinion, or for the argument.

The Lamma
04-17-2007, 04:31 PM
I didn't mean a bad sort of pushing, if thats what you thought. I mean like pushing one to think, search, and find.