skynes
04-11-2007, 10:05 AM
You know those cheesy Christian clichés? The stuff used as anecdotes, T-shirts and bumper stickers?

I want to find the scriptural truth (or untruth) behind them. Personally though, I don't know that many. So would it be possible for anyone reading this to throw a few down here? (Do check that noone has beat you to the punch though).

skynes
04-11-2007, 10:20 AM
I meant stuff like:

"It wasn't the nails that kept Jesus to the cross, it was His love for you and me"

The Lamma
04-11-2007, 11:38 AM
I don't know any off-hand, but if I was to get a hold of a few, I'm sure I could do something.

DarkestRose
04-11-2007, 12:29 PM
I don't know about biblically inaccurate ones.

The Christian tee shirts that usually bother me are the ones that are rip-offs of mainstream name-brand tee shirts. Like, instead of Reese's (the peanut butter cup) it says "Jesus" or it says "Got Jesus?" like the milk ads. Those are really dorky to me. And there is nothing particularly conversation or thought provoking about them.

I don't know if this (http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/datomana_1926_22727928) is inaccurate at all (Jesus Miracle Tour tee) but the shirt's been bugging me lately because I get the impression of the shirt insinuating Jesus to be some kind of miracle-vending-machine circus act, which is very unsettling. I don't know if that's a Biblical inaccuracy (because Jesus did do miracles displaying God's power), though it really does feel theologically unstable to me (by insinuating that Jesus is a miracle wonder show when He's so much more than that, Jesus is the Lord and Saviour of our lives).

Tromos
04-11-2007, 05:18 PM
"My boss is a Jewish carpenter"

bob
04-11-2007, 05:25 PM
"Hey, Jesus didn't wear pants"

Okay, so I made that one up. The story behind it was that this girl invited me to her Church but said that I couldn't wear jeans. And so that was my answer. :)

The Lamma
04-11-2007, 05:51 PM
"My boss is a Jewish carpenter"

What do you think about that one, Tromos? You kinda posted it and said nothing...Lol

Tromos
04-12-2007, 05:53 AM
I didn't know if we were supposed to comment on them right away or not.

It seems that we have all assumed that Jesus grew up learning the skills of a carpenter because his earthly father, Joseph, was a carpenter.

Ah, so how do we know Joseph was a carpenter? Nothing is mentioned of Joseph's profession in any of the Gospels that mention him. Well, we actually hear about it second-hand from the townspeople of Nazareth when Jesus visits them during His ministry.

"They were filled with amazement, and said to one another 'Where did this man get such wisdom and miraculous powers? Isn't this the carpenter's son?'" - Matt 13:54b-55a

Let us, for now, ignore the view that Mary was Joseph's second wife and that Joseph had other sons by a previous marriage - thus the reference to Jesus' brothers and sisters in Matt 13:55. So, we assume that Jesus, as the oldest son of Joseph, would follow the family trade. Which was, admittedly, common at the time. Yet, at no time does anyone in the Gospels ever refer to Jesus as a carpenter. The only title he is ever given is "Rabbi". Even the Pharisees, who would certainly seek to undermine the authority of Jesus' teachings by pointing out that a carpenter would not be qualified to teach, never take this angle.

Studying to be a rabbi, a teacher in the tradition of the Pharisees, would have been a full-time thing that took up most of the time from his bar mitzvah until His ministry began. While I'm sure he learned some of the carpentry trade from Joseph, I think it unlikely that He devoted Himself to that profession.

So, as my first example for Skynes, I give you "My boss is a Jewish carpenter." I find little Scriptural or logical support for that Christian cliché.

skynes
04-12-2007, 07:27 AM
I didn't know if we were supposed to comment on them right away or not.

I don't mind either way, but I put the post here as opposed to Mars Hill so that I could collect the cliches.

"My boss is a Jewish carpenter" isn't quite the thing I was looking for. I'm talking the common as muck "God loves the sinner and hates the sin" kinda stuff. The things Christian spew all the time which they think is in scripture, yet never actually bothered to look.

Laura suggested a good few on my blog

---
"Believe in Jesus and He will come into your heart."

"Everyone has a God-shaped hole in their heart."

"What would Jesus do?"

"God won’t give you anything you can’t handle."
---

^ Stuff like that.

Tromos
04-12-2007, 07:32 AM
Ah, OK.

The one I offered is a fairly common bumper sticker here in the States.

The Lamma
04-12-2007, 10:05 AM
Let us, for now, ignore the view that Mary was Joseph's second wife and that Joseph had other sons by a previous marriage - thus the reference to Jesus' brothers and sisters in Matt 13:55...


...The only title he is ever given is "Rabbi".

I never thought of it that way...I often thought that maybe the brothers and sisters were younger...

And in Jewish culture only the best of the best of the best became Rabbis. (there is a Nooma episode on that) They would study and memorize the Torah as kids, the best of them would carry on to other books. The best of those would carry on to more, and then the best of those would ask to be an apprentice to a Rabbi. The Rabbi would then test them, and if they had what it takes, they would apprentice. What happened to all of he other people who weren't the 'best'? They went into the family trade.

forceflow17
04-12-2007, 10:35 AM
here's one i've heard that i'm pretty definate is not in the bible, but many people assume it is

"the Lord helps those who help themselves"

kittygirl
04-12-2007, 12:07 PM
Hehe, the one I want to buy is
"No high like the Most High"

That's kind of off topic, but for me personally, that's kind of a funny take on things that have happened in my life, what with friends being sucked into the lure of drugs. Not to mention Jesus can satisfy you without drugs. Otherwise He would not have come.

I dunno, it depends on how you use them.

agent_c68
04-12-2007, 02:03 PM
Here's one I run into all the time in debates about whether something is acceptable for a Christian to do or not.

Because Jesus died, we are no longer under the law.

The Lamma
04-12-2007, 04:31 PM
Oooh...Good one ^. I don't agree with that one at all. In fact, many (not all) laws are included in the Ten Commandments and such. The NT also says somewhere that we should obey those with more authority (aka the law, in this case), and that all authority was placed there by God himself.

Tromos
04-12-2007, 05:21 PM
Here's one I run into all the time in debates about whether something is acceptable for a Christian to do or not.

Because Jesus died, we are no longer under the law.


Sometimes I think we'd have all been better off if Paul's quill had snapped in half after Romans chapter 7.

unshakeable15
04-13-2007, 02:40 PM
It seems that we have all assumed that Jesus grew up learning the skills of a carpenter because his earthly father, Joseph, was a carpenter.

Ah, so how do we know Joseph was a carpenter? Nothing is mentioned of Joseph's profession in any of the Gospels that mention him. Well, we actually hear about it second-hand from the townspeople of Nazareth when Jesus visits them during His ministry.

"They were filled with amazement, and said to one another 'Where did this man get such wisdom and miraculous powers? Isn't this the carpenter's son?'" - Matt 13:54b-55a

Let us, for now, ignore the view that Mary was Joseph's second wife and that Joseph had other sons by a previous marriage - thus the reference to Jesus' brothers and sisters in Matt 13:55. So, we assume that Jesus, as the oldest son of Joseph, would follow the family trade. Which was, admittedly, common at the time. Yet, at no time does anyone in the Gospels ever refer to Jesus as a carpenter. The only title he is ever given is "Rabbi". Even the Pharisees, who would certainly seek to undermine the authority of Jesus' teachings by pointing out that a carpenter would not be qualified to teach, never take this angle.

Studying to be a rabbi, a teacher in the tradition of the Pharisees, would have been a full-time thing that took up most of the time from his bar mitzvah until His ministry began. While I'm sure he learned some of the carpentry trade from Joseph, I think it unlikely that He devoted Himself to that profession.
In the smaller towns, they would not have a rabbi who lived among them and taught them on the Sabbath. They wouldn't have anyone to go to for settling disputes. They wouldn't have anyone to answer questions concerning the Torah. So, instead of rabbis, they went to (you'll never guess) the carpenter.

Nazareth was one of those small towns. Joseph was just such a carpenter.

Tromos
04-13-2007, 07:37 PM
In the smaller towns, they would not have a rabbi who lived among them and taught them on the Sabbath. They wouldn't have anyone to go to for settling disputes. They wouldn't have anyone to answer questions concerning the Torah. So, instead of rabbis, they went to (you'll never guess) the carpenter.

Nazareth was one of those small towns. Joseph was just such a carpenter.

Interesting view on 1st century Jewish history. Where did you come by that?

And I have to question any statement that unequivocally states that Joseph served as the Nazarene expert on Torah. Certainly it's not Biblical.

skynes
04-15-2007, 04:09 AM
When God feels distant, guess who moved?

Tromos
04-15-2007, 08:45 AM
When God feels distant, guess who moved?

Yeah. Tell that one to Job.

bob
04-15-2007, 08:50 AM
Okay, here's one.

God helps them who helps themselves. or Whenever God closes a door, he opens a window.

I fail to see any biblical backing in either of those clichés.

skynes
04-15-2007, 09:29 AM
Yeah. Tell that one to Job.

LOL! funny you mentioned Job cause I looked specifically there for references to this and found multiple which CLEARLY say that God turned away from Job so that He could not be found.

Tromos
04-15-2007, 04:18 PM
LOL! funny you mentioned Job cause I looked specifically there for references to this and found multiple which CLEARLY say that God turned away from Job so that He could not be found.

Precisely. All Biblical indication were that Job was a righteous man, which was precisely why he was the target of the wager between God and Satan. God's apparent abandonment of Job was not at all Job's fault.

unshakeable15
04-15-2007, 10:32 PM
Interesting view on 1st century Jewish history. Where did you come by that?

And I have to question any statement that unequivocally states that Joseph served as the Nazarene expert on Torah. Certainly it's not Biblical.
It's information i garnered from a former pastor of mine who loved Jewish history and travelled to Israel twice, befriending one of the leading experts in (i believe) the First Century Jewish world (sorry, can't remember his name).

I believe Ann Rice also mentions it in her novel "Christ the Lord: Out of Egypt" but i can't be certain on that (since i didn't finish the book).

Hardly glowing recomendations for the veracity of the information, i know, but it's as good as i've got.