animeraven34
04-16-2007, 08:28 AM
Quotes actually heard from the lips of pastors during "sermons".

"We [as believers] should never go down to the level of the non-believers." (Or, to paraphrase for the sake of clarity: We must never leave the safety of our church to reach out to the sinners.)

"If you just give 24% of your income every month to the church, your life will be blessed beyond belief."

And let us not forget examples of "Christian Counseling":

A woman who was raped confided in a Christian friend that she trusted implicitly. He convinced her that because she had been raped, her body was tainted and evil, so he started sleeping with her, cheating on his wife at that same time, to make her holy and sanctified once again.

An abusive husband took his wife to see their pastor. And the pastor somehow convinced the wife that it was HER fault her husband beat her, and that maybe if she was a better wife, her husband would have no reason to beat her.


The first two are from my own personal experience. The second two heard from individuals involved in the actual events.

terrasin
04-16-2007, 09:38 AM
Here's a good reason why people hate Christianity:

Westburo Baptist Church (www.godhatesfags.com)

bob
04-16-2007, 09:55 AM
Here's a good reason why people hate Christianity:

Westburo Baptist Church (www.godhatesfags.com)

Amen. :)

Unregistered
04-16-2007, 10:16 AM
Aaaaameeeen brutha! Go tell it on the mountaintops! :D


;)

V-Ball Queen 32
04-16-2007, 10:30 AM
That's pathetic. Can people really think they're so self-righteous? Wow. I wish more people knew the difference between the stereotype "christian" and the genuine christian.

The Lamma
04-16-2007, 11:43 AM
That stuff is terrible... That quote from the Ghandi guy (I think Bob had it in his sig at one point?) is sooooo true, especially with this stuff.

bob
04-16-2007, 12:46 PM
That quote from the Ghandi guy

Heh, "the Ghandi guy". :P

Yeah, I used to have it in my siggy, it said: "I like your Christ, I don't like your Christians, your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - The Ghandi guy.

DarkestRose
04-16-2007, 01:14 PM
Man, I was anticipating that this was going to be one of those threads complaining about how everybody hates Christians, we’re such victims, blah, blah, blah…

It’s disheartening. And it is angering to see so-called Christians abusing those in need of help, those who come looking for it from Christ’s followers. I honestly cannot tell if some of these people honestly believe and are greatly misunderstanding, or if they’re just abusing people’s faith for advantage.

All I can figure is that we can use this as a challenge that we as Christians would show love, compassion, kindness, consideration and sensitivity to people; that we would be accepting of others even while we did not approve of everything they did or agree with them on everything. People need Christian brothers and/or sisters who will stick by them when they’re going through moments of doubt or questioning of faith. People need Christians who will show forgiveness, mercy, grace and patience when they fall (as we all do). I don’t think we need to water down the Truth for some wishy-washy PC faith in order to be that. And since we cannot change other people and it’s useless to criticize, I figure it’s a good conviction for us to reflect Christ.

riz
04-16-2007, 01:20 PM
It's funny. One of the Bible study leads at this church I attended periodically during college told us once about how judgmental and cruel the Christian church can me, how there is such a lack of wanting to accept people who don't live up to "their" standards. This leader told us that she always seemed to notice that the people who were the meanest, the most judging, the cruelest to her, were not athiests or people who didn't believe in Christ, but fellow Christians who had scarily similar beliefs to her own.

How ridiculous is it that it has to be that way.

dawn of light
04-16-2007, 02:07 PM
It's really sad how hated Christians have become to the rest of the world. I've heard stories like that before too, Jon, it just sickens me.

terrasin
04-16-2007, 03:08 PM
That's pathetic. Can people really think they're so self-righteous? Wow. I wish more people knew the difference between the stereotype "christian" and the genuine christian.
The same way that Christians stereotype the rest of the world? Frankly, I find more Christians to be completely hypocritical than non-believers.

CJ

V-Ball Queen 32
04-16-2007, 03:11 PM
Yeah. That is also true. Screw stereotypes, honestly. They don't get you anywhere.

Unregistered
04-16-2007, 03:28 PM
You'll never be able to "screw stereotypes" as they are everywhere and going nowhere.

The same way that Christians stereotype the rest of the world? Frankly, I find more Christians to be completely hypocritical than non-believers.

CJ

I heartily agree with you, my friend, but there are no groups of people in the world who are immune to it.

TheFireBreathes
04-16-2007, 03:58 PM
i'm prettysure everyone on these boards have laughed at some time upon hearing some goofy stereotype about whites, blacks, asians, etc.

I think stereotypes are fine, it's just the people that aren't "wearing a cup", and letting it get to them.

DarkestRose
04-16-2007, 04:12 PM
Stereotypes really turn me off because they ignore the vast complexity of people and their emotions. When I started studying mental illness, this intensified because the stigma that the people with mental illness are branded by is so far reaching into American culture. Now I feel that stereotyping people shows ignorance as well as an apathy to human intricacy.

someoneudontkno
04-16-2007, 04:19 PM
i hate stereotypes, especially when someone sees a "goth like myself and assumes that they are a drugged up screw up. i am an a honor role student with an unweighted 3.8 GPA on my way to being a pastor, and helping to make a difference in a school with over two thousand sudents. when people look at me they see a different thing depending on who they are, and when they get to know me, everytime, they are wrong about me. some people ask why i dress like i do, and its because i am getting to the "unrechable" crowd. i come to where they are to preach the gospel. but i dont have to preach with words. i preach by action and everyone listines to what i do. stereotypes are meaningless to me. nine out of ten times, they are wrong anyway. but, people will allways make assumptions about others, simply because that is how we are. we axpect the worst. but we as christians are getting a bad rep because the way we live is setting us up as people with bad rutines. my generation is on the way to changing that, even if only for a short time, and in my view, everyone before us is prepairing the world for the day when we go out into the world to preach the Gospel. one day, we will come out of our school prepaired for battle in the world, because of what we are doing now. i can only hope for now that there are other people like us that are prepairing to change the world.

i know i might sound alittle.... crazy a assumative myself, but i have seen actions taken by myu generation, and those just above and under that will make an impact on the world. i can only pray that there is a group of people like there is where i am at that are working towards the same goal.

The Lamma
04-16-2007, 05:13 PM
The teen stereotype is killer. Thats all that needs to be said about that. But I am praying that this generation will rise up and undo the current Christian stereotype - which is becoming more and more true.

V-Ball Queen 32
04-16-2007, 05:29 PM
i hate stereotypes, especially when someone sees a "goth like myself and assumes that they are a drugged up screw up. i am an a honor role student with an unweighted 3.8 GPA on my way to being a pastor, and helping to make a difference in a school with over two thousand sudents. when people look at me they see a different thing depending on who they are, and when they get to know me, everytime, they are wrong about me. some people ask why i dress like i do, and its because i am getting to the "unrechable" crowd. i come to where they are to preach the gospel. but i dont have to preach with words. i preach by action and everyone listines to what i do. stereotypes are meaningless to me. nine out of ten times, they are wrong anyway. but, people will allways make assumptions about others, simply because that is how we are. we axpect the worst. but we as christians are getting a bad rep because the way we live is setting us up as people with bad rutines. my generation is on the way to changing that, even if only for a short time, and in my view, everyone before us is prepairing the world for the day when we go out into the world to preach the Gospel. one day, we will come out of our school prepaired for battle in the world, because of what we are doing now. i can only hope for now that there are other people like us that are prepairing to change the world.

i know i might sound alittle.... crazy a assumative myself, but i have seen actions taken by myu generation, and those just above and under that will make an impact on the world. i can only pray that there is a group of people like there is where i am at that are working towards the same goal.

That was worded perfectly. Good for you:)!

bob
04-16-2007, 06:42 PM
Frankly, I find more Christians to be completely hypocritical than non-believers.


I disagree.

To Be a human is to be a hypocrite

-James Kolstedt

Every human is hypocritical in some fashion. But people love to point at Christians and call them hypocrites because they put themselves up on a pedastool.

The Lamma
04-16-2007, 06:49 PM
Christians, like Bob said in a way, are the easiest way to get up. Thats why we're sometimes crushed. But like what we've talked about, its often ourselves.

riz
04-16-2007, 06:50 PM
Well, I have seen hypocrites on both sides of the fence, and I won't say which is 'more' hypocritical, because it really doesn't matter in the end.

Stereotypes stem from ignorance, and really, some of them could be considered positive, but the majority or negative and usually prove to be untrue, because of the said complexity of every single living human. These stereotypes will never go away though, as there will never be a moment when everyone will think without categorizing a person into a specific group or type. It is how we all are.

DarkestRose
04-16-2007, 06:54 PM
I disagree. Every human is hypocritical in some fashion. But people love to point at Christians and call them hypocrites because they put themselves up on a pedastool.

The only ways to not be a hypocrite would be to either have no value system or to be perfect.

Although it is a factor, and perhaps a large one, I think that people dislike Christians for more than just hypocrisy (e.g. believing Jesus is the way, truth and light and that nobody approaches God any other way).

The Lamma
04-16-2007, 06:56 PM
I think his point is that you're not always a hypocrit, only sometimes. Some people aren't one very much of their life, but will be at some point.

bob
04-16-2007, 06:56 PM
Stereotypes stem from ignorance, and really, some of them could be considered positive, but the majority or negative and usually prove to be untrue, because of the said complexity of every single living human.

Agreed, humans can't all be thrown into category, although our mind tends to do it anyway.

NightCrawler
04-17-2007, 06:40 AM
Why the world hates Christians:
Because they hate the Father and Christ.

John 15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=15&version=31&context=chapter)
18"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

Why the world and us are angry at people who CALL themselves "Christians" is because they do not spread the teachings of Christ neither in word nor in deed. They promote compassion while also compromising (accept gays... and homosexuality), or they promote conviction while also condemning (no homosexuality... and no gays!).

They are hateful or weak; hypocrites in either case. And Christ -- whom they claim -- was none of these.

[edit]
Now let's stop posting about this. Let's do it RIGHT and get this bad rap' off our backs. We cannot stand and watch the Way being maligned (as in Acts 19:8-9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%2019:8-9;&version=31;)), but instead be active in Truth.

The Lamma
04-17-2007, 10:45 AM
So you're saying get out there and do something? Thats a good idea. Lets do it somehow.

Tromos
04-17-2007, 11:17 AM
Strange. All this time I thought it was because we smelled bad.

... What?? ???

Don't look at me like that! >:(


Hey, why are you backing away? :'(

The Lamma
04-17-2007, 04:30 PM
L O L. Actually, in a metaphorical sense, we do smell bad, lol.

TheFireBreathes
04-17-2007, 08:02 PM
Bob, don't you think that James Kolstedt quote is stereotyping all humans?

bob
04-17-2007, 08:04 PM
Bob, don't you think that James Kolstedt quote is stereotyping all humans?

Ha ha ha! The person who said the quote is me. ;)

Yeah, its stereotyping all humans, but please, find me a human (aside from Jesus) who isn't a hypocrite.

The Lamma
04-19-2007, 12:22 PM
Like I said, I don't believe that one is a hypocrite his whole life. Only some parts, and some people more than others. Me and my bros made a video we called "The Hypocrite" and "The Pharisee", which was about a police officer who ticketed a guy for speading and then used his lights to get through the traffic. It was comedic genius. :P

bob
04-19-2007, 01:11 PM
Even if someone does one hypocritical thing wouldn't that make him a hypocrite for the rest of his life? Is that a title that can be shed so easily?

NightCrawler
04-19-2007, 05:36 PM
A hypocrite is simply this: someone who condemns another for things which apply to himself.

If you do not condemn, then you are not a hypocrite.
If you do condemn, but only things which you do not do, then you are not a hypocrite.
If you condemn and do the things you condemn, then you are a hypocite.

Obviously, not all Christians are hypocrites.

Luke 6:
37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

The Lamma
04-20-2007, 07:33 AM
Even if someone does one hypocritical thing wouldn't that make him a hypocrite for the rest of his life? Is that a title that can be shed so easily?

Maybe so, but you aren't a current hypocrite, but a past hypocrite.

bob
04-23-2007, 07:58 PM
Maybe so, but you aren't a current hypocrite, but a past hypocrite.

If you murder are you still called a murder after you've comitted the crime?

Same goes for being called a sex offender.

It doesn't matter that you aren't currently doing it, you have done it.

Hence, we're all sinners because we have sinned. That doesn't mean you sinned today, but you have before.

DarkestRose
04-24-2007, 01:23 AM
I think the only way a person could weasel out of being a hypocrite (in terms of doing what one denounces) would be to uphold no standards, call morality relative, and ethics situational. However, if a person actually has a code of ethics to live by, at some point they probably will be a hypocrite of those ethics simply because people sin.

skynes
04-24-2007, 01:23 AM
A hypocrite is simply this: someone who condemns another for things which apply to himself.

Actually a hypocrite is a guy acting on stage by wearing a mask to portray different characters and persona, lol. At least that was the definition in Jesus' time.

DarkestRose
04-24-2007, 01:25 AM
When that's the root of the word because Jesus was accusing the Pharisees of being pretenders. They acted like they had all these good works, convictions and holy knowledge but inside they were still corrupt.

I suppose it could apply if we were to portray ourselves as "perfect Christians" then, denying that we still need God's grace?

NightCrawler
04-24-2007, 07:30 AM
Actually a hypocrite is a guy acting on stage by wearing a mask to portray different characters and persona, lol. At least that was the definition in Jesus' time.
Yup.

"play actor" according to my study-bible's footnotes.

The Lamma
04-24-2007, 10:58 AM
Hence, we're all sinners because we have sinned. That doesn't mean you sinned today, but you have before.

But remember that God forgives our sin when we ask of him, and then we are no longer sinners in our eyes. And being a hypocrite is in that, too.

unshakeable15
04-26-2007, 08:06 PM
Just because God's grace covers over your sin doesn't mean it doesn't exsist; He just chooses to hide it under His grace.

Your argument is essentially this: a guy swears in front of his friends, then quickly prays to God for forgiveness, then when his friends ask about it/confront him about it, he responds "I am not a potty mouth, i did not swear. i asked God for forgiveness so it's as if it didn't happen." They'll think you're mental.

The Lamma
04-27-2007, 08:04 AM
I am one who thinks that doing a sin, asking for forgiveness, and then doing it again doesn't work. You're not sincere. But my point is kinda like if you were born in England, and then moved to USA and got a citizenship, you aren't labelled English. But again, I'm forgetting what I'm thinking...

DarkestRose
04-27-2007, 03:11 PM
I suppose the argument shouldn’t be “am I still a sinner?” because every one of us thinks, does, and says what we do not want to, and needs God’s help to change. We are sinners and sin is in our very nature. In First John it says, “8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

I don’t think the point should be to prove that our sins don’t make us hypocrites. Rather we should seek to obey God and live congruently with our faith.

The Lamma
04-27-2007, 08:33 PM
I just heard a song by Casting Crowns today, and it says
"But if we are the body
Why aren't His arms reaching?
Why aren't His hands healing?
Why aren't His words teaching?
And if we are the body
Why aren't His feet going?
Why is His love not showing them there is a way?
There is a way."

Its so true. Christians these days are such fakes...Christian doesn't mean 'in Christ' any more, but 'moral living.' And not even that, sometimes.