forceflow17
04-16-2007, 09:30 AM
i know that there was already a thread similar to this, but it is closed and i have a new question. if the band, label, record company etc etc no longer sell the cd, and it is only available from private owners via ebay etc etc, is it copryright infringement to download or copy said cd.(i'm asking because underoath's 1st 2 cds are no longer sold, they are called "cries of the past" and "acts of depression") you guy's legal and moral input on this would be appreciated

alienyouth9292
04-17-2007, 04:08 AM
heck, even if they were still making copies, i'd still download it.....

NightCrawler
04-17-2007, 06:46 AM
Pray about it.

skynes
04-17-2007, 08:47 AM
i know that there was already a thread similar to this, but it is closed and i have a new question. if the band, label, record company etc etc no longer sell the cd, and it is only available from private owners via ebay etc etc, is it copryright infringement to download or copy said cd.(i'm asking because underoath's 1st 2 cds are no longer sold, they are called "cries of the past" and "acts of depression") you guy's legal and moral input on this would be appreciated

Under the law, yes. For they are still the copyright owners for the next (I think) 50 years.

Incredibly stupid I know...

Tromos
04-17-2007, 10:19 AM
Correct.

Pray all you want. It's still illegal.

bob
04-17-2007, 10:20 AM
Heh, email the band. :P

The Lamma
04-17-2007, 10:38 AM
Yeah, the people keep their copyrights for 50 years before it isn't really copyrighted anymore. You can use Amazing Grace all you want 'cause of that.

Tromos
04-17-2007, 10:42 AM
And that's also why restaurant employees can't sing the traditional "Happy Birthday" song to you.

You didn't think they made up their own stupid birthday jingle because they really thought it sounded better, did you?

The Lamma
04-17-2007, 10:44 AM
That was dumb...Some guy who didn't write it claimed the copyright...

Quadripedman
04-17-2007, 10:45 AM
i think, key word here, THINK, and i might (and probally am) wrong, that if you dont sell the copied cd for your own profit, its not illegal. i might be wrong though.

The Lamma
04-17-2007, 10:56 AM
You can copy CDs for yourself, and yourself only. If you can lend it out for sure. But I actually think there is a way to do it if the person who owns the CD copies it he can give it out...I dunno. That doesn't make sense. If it worked that way, half of the Limewire stuff wouldn't be illegal... I dunno. :P

alienyouth9292
04-17-2007, 11:11 AM
i have been a diehard victim of limewire for a while now....plus i always make copies of cds for my friend.

Tromos
04-17-2007, 11:15 AM
You don't own the songs, of course. You have purchased, with the CD, a license to the tracks. You may make a backup copy for your own personal use (selling or giving away are both illegal). You may resell the original CD (or give it away) but must give your personal copy away with it or destroy it. If you have to circumvent a copyright protection scheme built into the CD (or DVD), then it's even illegal to make the personal backup.

I don't particularly like it. And I will admit that I haven't always been compliant. But that is the law.

skynes
04-17-2007, 11:50 AM
i think, key word here, THINK, and i might (and probally am) wrong, that if you dont sell the copied cd for your own profit, its not illegal. i might be wrong though.

It is illegal.

If you can lend it out for sure.

Lending CDs, DVDs or Games are ALL illegal.

You have purchased, with the CD, a license to the tracks.

Which means what belongs to you is what the songs are written on. Nothing more. You may not do anything with those songs, copies, lending, giving, anything.

You may make a backup copy for your own personal use

This is allowed only because the company which makes the CDs has said you may make a copy for backup only.

One thing which is exceptionally stupid is this:

you may not change the format.

If you burn a CD to your hard drive, then copy a song to your IPod. You just broke the law.

What the law currently demands (changes are underway apparently) is that you can have a CD, you can have a backup copy of the CD. BUT if you want a song on your mp3 player or Ipod, you must PAY for a digital copy of that song. Thus you pay twice. Once for the license to the CD, once for the digital license.

It's the same idea with Windows. You may only have ONE PC with Windows. If you wish to install Windows on another PC you must first either de-install it from the first PC or buy a second license.

alienyouth9292
04-17-2007, 12:24 PM
lol i've broken half those rules....the one involving the iPod is stupid!

skynes
04-17-2007, 12:57 PM
the one involving the iPod is stupid!


I know. They're working on changing it now.

bob
04-17-2007, 01:02 PM
What the law currently demands (changes are underway apparently) is that you can have a CD, you can have a backup copy of the CD. BUT if you want a song on your mp3 player or Ipod, you must PAY for a digital copy of that song. Thus you pay twice. Once for the license to the CD, once for the digital license.

Well throw the handcuffs on me and take me away then.

forceflow17
04-17-2007, 01:10 PM
so, when i put all my cds on my ipod i broke the law?

alienyouth9292
04-17-2007, 01:29 PM
yea me too.

The Lamma
04-17-2007, 04:22 PM
It is illegal.



Lending CDs, DVDs or Games are ALL illegal...



...you may not change the format.

If you burn a CD to your hard drive, then copy a song to your IPod. You just broke the law.

What the law currently demands (changes are underway apparently) is that you can have a CD, you can have a backup copy of the CD. BUT if you want a song on your mp3 player or Ipod, you must PAY for a digital copy of that song. Thus you pay twice. Once for the license to the CD, once for the digital license.

Uh... Dude, you're saying that Blockbuster is illegal. And I know as a fact that CDs let you do multiple. In fact, my Nothing Is Sound CD limits copying of to five or something!! Oh, and just for the record, Canada has much better copying laws. :P:D

Tromos
04-17-2007, 04:25 PM
Uh... Dude, you're saying that Blockbuster is illegal.

Movie rental companies have different rules. They don't just buy a DVD then rent it to their heart's content. They either pay a flat fee per DVD copy that allows them to rent it indefinitely or they have to pay a portion of each rental fee back to the distributor.

DarkestRose
04-17-2007, 04:26 PM
What about libraries that let you check out videos and DVDs? How does that work out as far as legality goes?

The Lamma
04-17-2007, 04:32 PM
Yeah, you don't rent it. And I've never seen or heard anything about lending being illegal..

Tromos
04-17-2007, 06:50 PM
I don't know the rules for libraries.

And no one said lending was illegal. If you come by my house and ask to borrow my Superman Returns DVD, I hand it to you, you watch it, then you bring it back, I don't believe any laws have been broken.

If you copy it, keep the copy, and bring me back my original, it's a whole different story.

Go ahead. Borrow it from the library. But making a copy for yourself (including the "backup" copy of a CD) before returning it has crossed the line.

skynes
04-18-2007, 02:57 AM
And no one said lending was illegal. If you come by my house and ask to borrow my Superman Returns DVD, I hand it to you, you watch it, then you bring it back, I don't believe any laws have been broken.


Read the legal bit.

e.g. In my Supreme Commander instruction booklet it says:

2. Grant of License ... You may not... Make it available to multiple persons.

DVDs will state it's for private home use only i.e. the home of the person who bought it and that exhibition (showing it to other people) or distribution (giving it out) is prohibited.

What's interesting is that I looked at two or three DVDs and all of them say Copying is prohibited. No copying allowed, not even a backup.

Tromos
04-18-2007, 05:02 AM
What's interesting is that I looked at two or three DVDs and all of them say Copying is prohibited. No copying allowed, not even a backup.

Since they all have protection schemes on them now, that's not surprising. In the US, at least, any copying that relies on defeating a protection scheme is illegal.

skynes
04-18-2007, 05:25 AM
Since they all have protection schemes on them now, that's not surprising. In the US, at least, any copying that relies on defeating a protection scheme is illegal.


What's ironic is the only person the protection schemes annoy, are the regular consumers, any pirate worth their blanks can bypass the protection with no problem.

Tromos
04-18-2007, 06:53 AM
*shrug* It's the same argument with gun control. The criminals can always get their hands on guns. Limited access normally just prevents ordinary people from protecting themselves.

... granted that argument seems pretty pale in light of recent events here in Virginia, however :-\

The Lamma
04-19-2007, 12:33 PM
The part that states that it is for only home use I took as 'don't use for public use.' There is a difference there.

unshakeable15
04-21-2007, 07:57 PM
DVDs will state it's for private home use only i.e. the home of the person who bought it and that exhibition (showing it to other people) or distribution (giving it out) is prohibited.
So does that mean only i can watch my copy of Indiana Jones on DVD? I can't watch it with friends, nor can i allow them to watch it on my TV in my house with my DVD player eating my popcorn?

V-Ball Queen 32
04-21-2007, 09:57 PM
Honestly, who cares that much? People have to figure out that half the population couldn't care less if it's legal or not. It's like trying to stop the bull fights in Mexico. Not gonna happen. I know it's wrong to break the law, but who draws the line of where something even has some reasoning behind it? I'm coming off as a smart-aleck, but I just plain don't get why they make a big deal about it when 90% didn't know it was a law until we broke it. And tjen couldn't care less, anyway.

terrasin
04-21-2007, 10:55 PM
Read the legal bit.

e.g. In my Supreme Commander instruction booklet it says:

2. Grant of License ... You may not... Make it available to multiple persons.

DVDs will state it's for private home use only i.e. the home of the person who bought it and that exhibition (showing it to other people) or distribution (giving it out) is prohibited.

What's interesting is that I looked at two or three DVDs and all of them say Copying is prohibited. No copying allowed, not even a backup.
This falls under the law about public showings. It's pretty much the same way with CDs. Provided you aren't announcing to the public that there is going to be a viewing of such and such movie on such and such date at such and such time, you're pretty much within your legal boundaries. Private viewings, such as having friends over or a movie event at church which isn't exactly "open to the public" is quite fine to do without needing licensing.

CJ

terrasin
04-21-2007, 10:58 PM
Honestly, who cares that much? People have to figure out that half the population couldn't care less if it's legal or not. It's like trying to stop the bull fights in Mexico. Not gonna happen. I know it's wrong to break the law, but who draws the line of where something even has some reasoning behind it? I'm coming off as a smart-aleck, but I just plain don't get why they make a big deal about it when 90% didn't know it was a law until we broke it. And tjen couldn't care less, anyway.
The bands that lose money, the labels which lose money, the promoters which lose money, etc. etc. etc.

I love these arguments that people put up about this topic. "Well, the labels have too much money anyway and they screw the bands out of money, etc." What these people fail to realize is the amount of money these labels dish out for promotion, production, manufacturing, marketing, and all the other little things that get a band popular to begin with. It's because of the label that the cd is even on the racks at the stores.

CJ

The Lamma
04-23-2007, 12:24 PM
I was just remembering that iTunes gives you limited like 10 or so) times you can copy purchased music. That is more than 1.

bob
04-24-2007, 09:53 AM
Yesterday a girl in my class gave a persuasive speech to convice the class not to download music. At the beginning she said "Not to preach down on you, I download music myself." People know that downloading music is wrong, they just make excuses to make themselves feel better.

The Lamma
04-24-2007, 10:54 AM
The biggest thing is that no one does anything. No one at all. Its soooooo easy to get away with. Too easy, in fact.