Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
John 3:5


This verse says that if you aren't Baptised you will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven......so if you are a Christian but not yet Baptised what happens???


What do you think about those who profess to be Saved and are not Baptised?

I always understood this verse to mean being physically born, not baptized.

The stipulation to enter into the kingdom of Heaven is to believe on Christ. That word "believe" actually means to cling to steadfastly or to hold with all of your strength. Since even the demons believe (and tremble) obviously the type of believing we need is something different. Placing more regulations on what we need to do to enter the kingdom completely goes against His grace.

Jesus tells us to be baptized, so we need to obey Him. The reason we are baptized is symbolic of His death, burial and resurrection. This is what happens to us when we are baptized, out with the old and in with the new.

Another interpretation of scripture along the lines of baptism that I believe God led me to is like this.

If I ask you if you want a peanut butter sandwhich, you're going to say and jelly. The two just go together. At the time of Christ, when you were "saved", you found a place of water and were baptized as well.

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Why did Jesus not say "but whoever does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned"? The reason is, baptism is not a prerequisite to get into Heaven. It was just done at the same time of someone getting "saved" or becoming believers.

Should we do it? Yes. If we do not and are believers, will we enter Heaven? Yes. Why do it then? Look at Jesus. He came out of the wilderness and had Holy Spirit upon Him. Yet when He was baptized, Holy Spirit came upon Him in a new way. When we obey God, it opens doors of His mercy and power and blessings that we cannot imagine. Even David said, to obey is better than sacrifice. He realized, obedience to God was even greater than the sacrifices made. Should we be baptized? Yes. It will bring us closer to Him!

Was it not just an outside showing of turning from old ways?

Basically, baptism is not a requirement for salvation. It is instead something you are expected to do after salvation -- just as good works don't get you to heaven, but you're expected to conform to God's will and do good once you become His, baptism doesn't save you, but it's a profession of faith and a cleansing (I believe) that is expected of a believer after his or her initial commitment.

i used to believe baptism was essential, but i don't think it is anymore. i figured out that if someone changes their hearts to follow God they'll probly wind up getting baptized. also, i think baptism is the final stage of giving your life to Christ because you confess him before men.

Baptism is simply this:

A public display of faith.

It's not a "requirment" by any means (baptists will tell you differently) but is good if you do it. I was baptised at like 3 months old cause that's the way we did things in my church. I don't consider that a real baptism because it's something that needs to be a choice, not forced upon one. So I am getting rebaptised in a few months when I get to my new church.

Also, baptism is not a one time thing. I know people who have been baptised, backslid, and rededicated their lives through a baptism again.

CJ

It's not a "requirment" by any means (baptists will tell you differently)

I go to a baptist church, and I have NEVER heard any of our pastors say that Baptism is a requirement for salvation, just a public profession of faith, an act of obedience to Christ, and an assosiation with Christ (through death [going under] and ressurection [coming up out of the water]).

I go to a Baptist church too and i've never heard anyone saying that you HAVE to be Baptised.......just that if you profess to be living for God then because Jesus said that we were to be baptised with water we should do it to be obedient......but just because you aren't wont mean you won't go to Heaven.

the way i see it, if someone says they gave their life to Christ, and totally blow off baptism, they're off at a bad start, disobedience right away

It's not a "requirment" by any means (baptists will tell you differently)...

i grew up in a big southern baptist style church. & like weebird & Agent, i never heard that it was a requirement. you got saved through confession & baptism was just the next step. just like getting on the plane got you from Denver to Chicago, but you also need to sit in the seat & stow your luggage in the overhead compartment. you do one, then the others. you get saved, then baptized.

*raises hand* Baptist here as well. We don't teach that baptism saves you and my church also invites anyone who is interested in being baptized at our church to take a 4-week class on baptism to help them understand that it DOES NOT save you, nor is it a pre-requisite for salvation.

But, God's word does command that we do it as an act of obediance after we are saved. :)

Repent and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

now this is the first time I've heard any baptist say that it's not a requirement. Well I guess ya learn something new every day. Thanks...

now this is the first time I've heard any baptist say that it's not a requirement. Well I guess ya learn something new every day. Thanks...


Yeah, one bad apple spoils the bunch, I guess. Just like the few charismaniacs [okay, maybe more than a few ;) ]who teach that you're not saved unless you've 'received confirmation' by speaking in tongues. Just happens that way sometimes. Tis a shame the whole denomination has to pay for it.

now this is the first time I've heard any baptist say that it's not a requirement. Well I guess ya learn something new every day. Thanks...


Yeah, one bad apple spoils the bunch, I guess. Just like the few charismaniacs [okay, maybe more than a few ;) ]who teach that you're not saved unless you've 'received confirmation' by speaking in tongues. Just happens that way sometimes. Tis a shame the whole denomination has to pay for it.


Just out of curiosity who teaches that? I've heard many speakers on many subjects and I've never come across that one. What I've heard was speaking in tongues is evidence of a baptism of fire from the Holy Spirit. Of course this is another subject in itself.

I've attended quite a few churches that had the same teaching within the Church of Christ and Apostolic affiliations.

Just out of curiosity who teaches that? I've heard many speakers on many subjects and I've never come across that one. What I've heard was speaking in tongues is evidence of a baptism of fire from the Holy Spirit. Of course this is another subject in itself.


my aunt has an ex-husband (i guess that would make him my ex-uncle) who went to a church like that. of course, it also wouldn't let the women wear anything but skirts & dresses. :- but you're right, that's a whole other topic.

I always understood this verse to mean being physically born, not baptized.



John 3:5-6
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

I've been reading over this again.......so the part about being born of water is refering to physical birth, from the flesh, not actually being baptised in water.....im just not to clear about this ???

who teach that you're not saved unless you've 'received confirmation' by speaking in tongues.

Been told that many times... I don't speak in tongues so according to them I am not saved.... morons

I've been reading over this again.......so the part about being born of water is refering to physical birth, from the flesh, not actually being baptised in water.....im just not to clear about this ??? Yes. You are correct. That verse is saying that you must be 'born again' to be saved. There's the physical birth and a spiritual birth. It's not a verse making an argument for baptism.

Been told that many times... I don't speak in tongues so according to them I am not saved.... morons


I've been told if you don't hear God, that you aren't saved. Ehehehe

I like the books God.com and God.net by James Alexander Langteaux. He talks about his walk with God and the "dryness" of when God doesn't speak. God is God and speaks when he wants. ;)

CJ

Well I don't think this is just a conincidence, but I've been thinking about gettin baptised over that past 6 months, and on Sunday mum said to me "Cath, you should proabbly consider getting baptised" and now I'm reading this. I think I've gotta take the dive...

I believe that it's just a public declaration to man that you've made a decision to follow Christ and your not planning on turning back.

But I don't know where to get baptised. I'd rather do it at the church of my youth group cause I have so many more friends there, as oposed to my family church. I think my parents would kinda expect me to get it done at Gateway Bap. (family church)- but I'd rather do it at Rivercity (youth). I consider Rivercity to be more my church, does it really matter where I get it done?

Yeah, i'm with the other Baptists in here. I've never heard that you have to be baptised to be saved from any Baptist preacher. You don't have to be baptised to be saved. Consider this. When Jesus was on the cross, there was also the thiefs on the other crosses. At first, they had both made fun of him and denied him. But later, one thief said in verse 42 of chap. 23 of the book of Luke "And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom." The next verse says "And Jesus said unto him, 'Verily, i say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.' " According to those verses, the thief was never baptised. He asked Jesus to remember him, when he gets to heaven. He believed that he was God and that he was going to heaven. Jesus saved him. So, according to God's word in that example, all you have to do is ask the Lord to save you, and you will be saved, baptism or not. Baptism is just a profession of faith and a commandment given after you are saved.

But later, one thief said in verse 42 of chap. 23 of the book of Luke "And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom." The next verse says "And Jesus said unto him, 'Verily, i say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.' " According to those verses, the thief was never baptised. He asked Jesus to remember him, when he gets to heaven. He believed that he was God and that he was going to heaven. Jesus saved him. So, according to God's word in that example, all you have to do is ask the Lord to save you, and you will be saved, baptism or not. Baptism is just a profession of faith and a commandment given after you are saved.


That is very cool, i actually never thought of that, thanks ;D

does it really matter where I get it done?

No, not really. Baptist churches require that you be baptized before you can officially become a member of their church body [I think that's where the whole baptism as a requirement for salvation misconception evolved from] but it can be done anywhere. Our elders ask where you were baptized and if you clearly understand what baptism is and is not. For people who were baptized under the notion that it was a condition for receiving salvation or for those who were baptized when they were too young to really know what was going on, they are counselled and given the opportunity to do it again. I hope that answers your question.

On another note, baptism isn't just some nice religious tradition that has been passed down through the ages and that's why baptists don't take it lightly. It's an act of humility to stand up before a congregation of people and say, 'Christ is my Savior and I'm letting you know right now that I'm going to stand for Him.' For many people, that's an extremely hard thing to do. But if you can't profess your faith in front of a bunch of believers, how will you hold up against the world?

But if you can't profess your faith in front of a bunch of believers, how will you hold up against the world?

good point. i've heard of churches who go to public places (a local lake/river/creek, YMCA...) to do baptisms instead of in backyard pools or baptismals in the back of the church. it really does make it a public profession of faith instead of a private-public display.

Thing is i kina have a lil problem with big crowds of ppl :- i know that God will give me the courage to be able to stand infront of all those ppl and give my testimony and be Baptised but the thought still scares me :-

What I don't understand is that what's the difference between standing up in front of the crowds and saying "Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour" and getting dunked in a river? I fail to see the difference, baptism is an external showing of your commitment to Christ but a million other things could show that same commitment without getting wet.

it's also the symbolism of taking part in Christ's death & resurrection. you can't do that by simply saying "Jesus Christ is Lord of my life."

it's also a lesson in trust. you have to trust your pastor or however is doing the baptism not to drop you. in the same way you trust your pastor, you are saying you are willing to put that same trust in God.

can't do that by simply talking or telling. as Napoleon (yes, it was him) once said, "A picture is worth a thousand words." that fits for this type of picture as well.

simply put, talk is cheap. being baptised has a greater impact (to those who understand it) than saying "Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior!" because it is an act of obedience, assoseation(sp?), and declaration rather than just a declaration.

I'm not sure if anyone commented on this before in this thread but: is it ok to be baptised twice?? I think I said somthing before about this either I didnt or I forget it.

i believe it was mentioned before, but i'll state what i believe on this.

baptism isn't like communion, something you do every once in a while. it's usually done only once. in fact, communion kinda picks up where baptism left off. you get baptized once as a sign of your commitment to God, & then you take communion every once in a while (once a year, once a month, however often) to re-affirm that commitment with God.

but that's not to say you can't be baptized twice. if i ever did get baptized again, it would be because i've fallen away from God & am coming back to Him. i wouldn't get baptized again just as a sign of my commitment, there are other things for that. but a re-commitment of my life after a time away, that would be why i get baptized again. other than that, there really is no reason for it a second time.

I'm not sure if we addressed this before.. but.. I'm excited to share this soo...
The reason the Christian Reformed Church and the Reformed Church does baby baptism is partly because in the Bible (if someone smarter then me could tell me excatly where that would be awesome) they get the idea of you have to be baptised in order to be in the family of God. In my church.. they do adult baptism because.. Baptism is when you believe you should be baptised and as a little kid you really don't have a clear understanding of who God is... and btw.. the Greek roots of baptism means to inmese (sorry spell) with water...

Ephesians 4
1 I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called,
2 with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love,
3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

here it says that there is one Baptism........of the Spirit or of water?

Of the Spirit! Man, that's awesome! God's grace goes beyond doctrine and sees your heart. If baptism is a sign of your commitment to the Lord, then it's just a sign, signifying what happens in your heart, dying to a life of sin and corruption, and being born into a life of God's grace and Holiness through Christ. That's awesome dude!

John 3:5
Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

Ephesians 4
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

So what about these two verses together?

I am not sure that verse (John 3:5) is talking about baptism. The Chapter it's taken from is talking about being born again. When it says "born of water" I believe that Jesus is talking about being physically born (I am not going to go into detail, but water is involved with child birth durring that time). I also don't think that it was talking about baptism because I have never heard baptism refered to as "born of water" any other place.

The word born here does come from the greek, "gennao"(ghen-nah-o) which means: to procreate. Not to mention he says born, and not reborn. There is only one birthing from the water, and that's from the womb, making baptizm a figurative example of relating with Christ's death and resurection, neither implying an actual birth. When you are born in the Spirit it means that you have accepted the free gift of eternal life, which happens when you put faith in the Lord Jesus Christ dying on the cross. :afro:

Thanks agent c68 & Penyu :) thats a lot clearer to me now, i was just a little confused that both verses were talking about Baptism and if that was true where did Baptism of water & the Spirit come into it if there was only ONE Baptism. Thanks again.