I know ya'll remember this one but I'm putting it in agian.
Her feeding tube is set to be removed on Oct 15th. Her parents just sued again against that decision. Please pray that through Gods grace the jury awards the final decision to Terry's parents.
Thanx

Wow I feel special I'm so happy everyone wants to pray for this poor woman.(Sarcasm)If anyone cares to know Gov Bush gave a victory for life yesterday. They are delaying the removal of her tube in order to teach her how to eat first. This is still an uphill battle because her husband is against her being alive. I would appreciate it if ya'll would pray for her.

I'm prayed for her every since you told us about her. I think that is soo awesome that she can learn how to eat. Or is it a bad thing?? contining to pray for her.

Sorry I get a little mean sometimes. :- It means that Jeb actually read the law books and realized that removing the tubes without her consent violates her right to life.

Wow I feel special I'm so happy everyone wants to pray for this poor woman.(Sarcasm)


Actually ive been praying about it since the thread at the AY boards. Just because I dont post doesn't mean that I am not praying about it.

If anyone cares to know Gov Bush gave a victory for life yesterday. They are delaying the removal of her tube in order to teach her how to eat first. This is still an uphill battle because her husband is against her being alive. I would appreciate it if ya'll would pray for her.


that's totally awesome! :) it's cool how God intervenes in the lives of His children. :D

Sorry I get a little mean sometimes. :- It means that Jeb actually read the law books and realized that removing the tubes without her consent violates her right to life.

Excatly.. you are studing about CDV's in history class. and am like that is violating her right to life.

Here's an update on Terry: :-[ :-

Terry (http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/10/14/comatose.woman/index.html)

I'm still praying for her, God can still save her!!!!

They can't just starve her to death! That's terrible! I'm still praying, darnit! >:(

I am still praying for her. And what I found soooo weird. I just saw her on CNN here in michigan. I am like Mom, Dad.... I have been praying for her for about month (or more) this is freaky!! I am starting to cry, because I (we, us, Panheads) saved her life thu the power of prayer.

Hey!!! I just saw that as well on tv 3 news soo... they are letting her live?

I would guess so!

hey, i found this link in yahoo's news today....

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20031022/ap_on_re_us/comatose_woman_94

Hey Thanx skelfs and AGR for keeping up the news stories on here for me. I havnt been able to.
I dunno if anyone here knows it but Michael Schiavo is actually living with another woman and has two kids with her. I dont see why these people are not picking up on that story.Why is he still her gaurdian when he obviously dosnt think of her as his wife anymore? That is really a victory for him that she wasnt allowed to have visitors because he has tried to do that for years!

Also I read in the paper today that the person who examined her and said that she cannot be rehabilitated is the sam guy who examined many many others in the same position and gaqve them the same diagnosis. I would like to clarify that Terri is not in a PVS. Sh is brain damaged but she is NOT incapable of learning how to talk or eat. She is simply not allowed by her 'husband' to see therapists.

I found another one. Looks like some good news. :D

Terry - Responsive? (http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/10/23/coma.woman/index.html)

Keep praying guys!

hey, i saw this when i was reading the news.... thought i'd post it

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=541&ncid=541&e=1&u=/ap/20031203/ap_on_he_me/brain_damaged_woman_4

I found another one. Looks like some good news. :D

Terry - Responsive? (http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/10/23/coma.woman/index.html)

Keep praying guys!

That is good to see. Is there any thing else you know of her right now? Like her conditions at this point?

bad news, next tuesday the sicko "in charge" of her will be allowed to remove the feeding tube. we need heavy prayer here. this guy is sick, why he doesn't just divorce her and leave her to her parents, i don't know. and his attorney? what kind of unfeeling twit is he?? let's just pray for this

and his attorney? what kind of unfeeling twit is he??
He's a well-payed unfeeling twit.

He was just spouting out his political crap on Fox, what a horrible person, what else can i say??

He was just spouting out his political crap on Fox, what a horrible person, what else can i say??
He's paid to do that. Beyond that, he probably doesn't care.

Yeah, the world's full of them. Kind of makes you wonder what his family's like.

The court's gave her more time to live...

Friday. Right?

yeah, that's right

http://www.glennbeck.com/news/03142005.shtml

you can find info there to see how you can help

What I want to know is this:

Why is it against the law to purposely starve an animal to death but "judges" want to allow Terry to be starved to death?

Why don't they just euthanize her? Because that's murder. But wait isn't starving someone to death murder.

At this point it doesn't matter how much money it costs to keep her alive, her so-called husband made the decision to keep her alive years ago. Why doesn't he just divorce her and let her parents take responsibility for her.

makes me wonder if he is waiting for her insurance money after her death or something. otherwise, i too do not understand why he doesn't divorce her already. her parents have already expressed their willingness to take care of her.

Well folks, the worst has come... the tube's gone, but the great people are still fighting it... pretty sad when the courts make murder legal basically. And there is no proof at all that she wanted to die, the husband i believe is just making it up to get it finished.. pray that it will be put back and that she will continue live! God Bless!

remember, though, that this isn't the first time this has happened to terry, and that there are various plans in action right now to keep her alive, plus we're all praying. don't give up

it is sad, but it is the family's wishes so what can you do...

Lol.. just so ya know the only one who one it i think is the husband... her parents are Christians who are giving it all they have to get i tback in... Very sad that lady is in the spot she is...

oh okay thanks 4 telling me! boy do i feel stupid! well parents should have the say after all that is her daughter blood relation in all ...

I think that the husband just wants to marry another woman, obviously he didn't pay attention to the "in sickness and in health" part of the oaths...

Here (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aoZuEkKKJCPI&refer=us#) you can see what Bush is doing, this story came in about an hour and a half ago.

Really? Nice; let's just hope that her parents will soon get "custody"

they still need go to the judge and see what he says

heres a link


terry schiavo (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1111327988758_65/?hub=CTVNewsAt11)

First I will say that I have not been following this story for very long - only the last week or so since the tube was removed. That said:

I am obviously the minority here.

I work every single day with brain injured people. I see people who are in a position not much better than this woman. A lot of them are totally unable to move or speak or eat or do ANYTHING by themselves - but they still at least have their mental capacities. There is zero chance that she will ever recover and be a fraction of the woman that she was before her accident.

I understand FULL WELLthe way her parents are feeling. She's their daughter, they want to keep her here because, hey.. she's still alive. But, she would only be here for them. Because they don't know how to let her go - which is perfectly understandable and I can't blame them. But it's selfish. Just like it would have been selfish of my Grandfather to let my Grandmother's body be kept alive for any longer than he already had while there was no more brain activity.

Keep in mind, that this poor woman has been like this for the past fifteen years. You have to ask yourselves: Would I want to live like that? Or would you want someone you loved very dearly to be FORCED to live that way? I KNOW how hard it is - but I think they need to just.. let her go.

but how do you know she wants to die ? ive seen miracles where ppl were in comas for 20 yrs or less and the parents took them home and still took care of them and they ended up waking up from them and speaking.i think thats love.

Look.. I just know what I've lived through and what I see day in and day out.

oh alright

First I will say that I have not been following this story for very long - only the last week or so since the tube was removed. That said:

I am obviously the minority here.

I work every single day with brain injured people. I see people who are in a position not much better than this woman. A lot of them are totally unable to move or speak or eat or do ANYTHING by themselves - but they still at least have their mental capacities. There is zero chance that she will ever recover and be a fraction of the woman that she was before her accident.

I understand FULL WELLthe way her parents are feeling. She's their daughter, they want to keep her here because, hey.. she's still alive. But, she would only be here for them. Because they don't know how to let her go - which is perfectly understandable and I can't blame them. But it's selfish. Just like it would have been selfish of my Grandfather to let my Grandmother's body be kept alive for any longer than he already had while there was no more brain activity.

Keep in mind, that this poor woman has been like this for the past fifteen years. You have to ask yourselves: Would I want to live like that? Or would you want someone you loved very dearly to be FORCED to live that way? I KNOW how hard it is - but I think they need to just.. let her go.

ihave to agree if i was like her for 10 years i whould want it to removed. dont wanna live based on a feeding tube and in pain

Alright - I'm not exactly sure where I stand on this...but doctors always should have the job of preserving life and even bettering the quality of life. I know that just pulling the feeding tube off her would be a slow and painful death, so I obviously don't support that.

But I can understand how they should just let her go now...but it'd be hard to be in the parents' shoes...with her 'responding' to them and whatnot. *shrugs*

I agree with Rach here. It's been way too long; more than ten years is definitely too long to remain in this condition, with no concrete signs of recovery. And I've been seen this whole thing play out on the News. One day, they take her off the feeding tube, and then the next, they hook her back up. The volleying back and forth is really unnecessary and it is really painful to hear (and watch). Both sides have selfish motives (some more than others, imo); and what I think is that the parents serious do need to let go and remember the good memories. Her husband has learned to let go as well.

Anyway. . . back to prayer, I think it is a good idea to pray for everyone in this situation. And have God's will be done instead of ours.

Hey Rachel, something you may not realize is that Terry is not in a persistant vegetative state, and that nurses, doctors, speech therapists et cetera say that she would be able to eat on her own, speak on her own, and do other things if given the chance and the therapy, but her husband, who is probably waiting for life-insurance money, denies ANY of this; he won't even allow a television or radio to be on in her room, or anyone to brush her teeth etc. Given the chance, she'd be able to function somewhat normally. Her only obstacle is that cheating, adulterous, blood/money-sucking husband of hers.

It's nice that you are being so kind and considerate to the husband. Great, Christian-like attitude.

Right now for me, the question of dignity arises and is shoved into the front of the matter; everywhere you go, on every single station, pictures of Shiavo are shown, in her condition, incapacitated, not as she once was, close-ups, the like. Would she want this type of publicity? Do you think it is right for the media blow this up to such a level and invade such a personal issue that really should stay at a personal level instead of meandering about at a political one. This whole thing, dragging on for so long, is getting ridiculous. It is like a circus. And I feel that the resolution will not be over for a while, even with the decision that is made. That's the sad thing.

Hmm, I think it might be a smart move to talk about this in the actual debate thread instead of the prayer requests section of the boards. Maybe we can move this discussion there?

Sorry, I shouldn't have said that about her husband. I don't see him as the best of people, but that was no excuse for the things I said about him. Thanks for keeping me in check riz.

Anyway, the judge rejected the Shiavo Appeal:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151112,00.htmlhttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151112,00.html

At the moment my sis has to have open-heart surgery on the 28th of this month. could you guys pray for her? She has a 3 centimeter hole in her heart. It's been there all her life.

Sure thing, but next time put this in the prayer request thread, thanks

I'd like to add to what alorian said. Terrys brother was on Fox News the other night and he said that all the things alorian mentioned that Terry could do given the therapy. He also said Terry tries to talk but since she has been denied speech therapy she can't (not just his opinion but the opinion of doctors); with those types of therapy she could learn to eat. Terry has no Living Will. She has been denied the right to speak for herself. We are going on the word of a man who has abandoned his marraige; in all reality he has a common law wife and two children with her. His legal right as husband should be nullified because it should be considered a form of bigomy. Knowing all that has transpired who's to say that if Terry was given therapy, learned to communicate, and was able to at all understand this; Maybe she would want to divorce Micheal. However as such a loving husband would do he is allowing his real "wife" to be starved to death. It's one thing to be on a respirator or some other machine to keep the vital organs going. But that is not the case.

It's very easy for people to say "I wouldn't want to live like that". But that is us speaking for ourselves and has nothing to do with Terry. Just because I wouldn't want it doesn't mean that I should impose that on another. So I suggest that we should all have a "Living Will" drawn up. Because only telling your spouce is not enough. Micheal Shiavo is living proof of that.

I just want to add to this I have been in the possition of having to "pull the plug". So I can see both sides of this.

mmm, looks like the minority here are the people who actually want her to live...

contrary to what the media says, terry is NOT in a vegetative state, like alorian said. the reason micheal does not divorce her is because if he did, he would not be entitled to any insurance money when she dies. He claims there is no money, that it was used for therapy. but all of us have heard that he denied her therapy.
question... why did he only tell us that she wanted to be "unplugged" seven years AFTER the incident happened?
something that should have been solved by him giving her over to her parents in the first place, has been blown way out of proportion. this guy is completely and utterly selfish. in my opinion, he's right up there with mr. scott peterson.

one more thing... would it be considered wrong to shoot her in the head with a pistol and end her life that way? if so, then why isn't it wrong for her to die by being denied food and water?

tis so sad... she cant eat or speak cuz they wont teach her, and then her husband still wants to "kill" her, even though she laughs, cries, smiles, and everything. He claimed to "love her and be by her side until the end" on telivision. im sure. ::] :-\ ah, well, this is so sad.

in my opinion, he's right up there with mr. scott peterson. but at least scott didn't let his wife suffer for 15 years...

Are you contradicting yourself by quoting yourself like that?

I don't think it's any of our places to be judging what her husband is thinking though. None of us know what transpired between them - none of us know what sort of agreements they had. Sure, let's form our own opinions, but no need to be nasty.


And also, I apologise for turning this into a debate. I didn't really realise it was in the Garden when I threw in my two cents.

maybe a possible thread move to the Hill... it's been debate off and on thoughout...

and it's just as possible that she didn't say what he claims she said.. from what the news has reported thier marraige was rocky and he was controlling.. not that it really matters.. but she never told anyone else of her wishes.. The lesson.. go get a Living Will..

Sure, let's form our own opinions, but no need to be nasty.

that's is good to all of us to remember.


And also, I apologise for turning this into a debate. I didn't really realise it was in the Garden when I threw in my two cents.

that's alright. maybe it should move to mars hill. i just hope it doesn't go from "please pray for the situation" to debating...which i am not against along as it doesn't get nasty.

I don't think it's any of our places to be judging what her husband is thinking though. None of us know what transpired between them - none of us know what sort of agreements they had. Sure, let's form our own opinions, but no need to be nasty.



I've been following this story for over a year, and I've heard the story plenty of times before. It's easy to believe the media and see her as in a persistent vegetative state, but many doctors and other professionals say that this is not the case. Her husband was very nice and loving the first few years, providing her with care and support, but after the courts awarded him money enough to care for her, he discontinued the therapy and turned somewhat nasty towards her. I heard a phone interview with the woman Michael Shiavo was seeing before and during the court preceedings where he was asking money for her care, and she said he went from loving and caring to wanting to "unplug" her. The circumstancial evidence there shows that he wanted money from this and nothing else. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Oh, and I want to apologize again for the bitterness I showed earlier. I feel pretty bad because of it, and I'll do my best not to do it again.

The lesson.. go get a Living Will..

A will is not enough, someone needs to hold the medical power of attorney.

And if her husband holds that - however much of a money grubbing scumbag he may or may not be - then it's nobody's decision but his.

if you don't want any arguments, you shouldn't start such controversial threads...

It was meant to be a prayer thread.

yes... i only learned the difference between the "garden of gethsemane" and "mars hill" today... :-[

the federal judge refused to order the tube reinserted.denying the parents appeals .sad news but life is unfair.

you know now is really the time to pray for Terry, her parents, and siblings. I hate to say it but I have a terrible feeling that she isn't gonna make it. I was listening to a report on what your body goes thru when dehydrating and starving to death and it is an ugly process. I can only imagine how they must feel seeing thier loved one go thru this.

If they want to help out Schiavo, they should do it by NOT reinserting the tubes. I felt the judge did the right thing; every time the feeding tube is inserted or taken out, there isn't some magical latch or jack that can be pushed to easily hook up or disconnect the tube. Every time that it is attached, it has to be attched surgically. Three times now the tube has been taken off, and inbetween those times, it has been reinserted. Great, add more pain and discomfort to the woman.

All the government interference - as well as infringments of privacy from the media - disgusts me even more. They need to decide one way or the other and not delay this process longer than it already has been. Again, the volleying back and forth is becoming ridiculous, almost like a circus. She doesn't deserve this.

the proper way to do this is to reinsert the tube and give her a PET scan so there's no more disagreement on what her condition is. You know her brother last night said that the reports of Terry having bulimia or a heart attack that caused her collapse are simply false without an ounce of medical evidence.

heres the article from the sun not the full one its too long to write!


Alanta- A federal appeals court refused early today to order the reinsertion of Terry Schiavo's feeding tube, denying an emergency request by the severly brain-damaged woman's parents to keep her alive.
In its 2-1 ruling, a three- judge panel of the 11th circuit court of appeals said the woman's parents " failed to demonstate a substatial case on the merits of any of their claims""there is no denying the absolute tradegy that has befallen Mrs. Schiavo," the ruling read. "We all have our own family,our own loved ones,and our own children. However, we are called upon to make a collective objective corcerning a question of law".Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler,vowed another appeal today. " The Schindlers will be filling an appropiate appeal to save thir daughter's life said Rex Sparklin,an attorney with the law firm representing the parents.The Schindlers said Tuesday that their daughter was fading "quickly" and might die at any moment. The feeding tube was disconnected Friday, and doctors have said that Terri Schiavo , 41, could survive one or two weeks without water and nutrients.

If they want to help out Schiavo, they should do it by NOT reinserting the tubes. I felt the judge did the right thing; every time the feeding tube is inserted or taken out, there isn't some magical latch or jack that can be pushed to easily hook up or disconnect the tube. Every time that it is attached, it has to be attched surgically. Three times now the tube has been taken off, and inbetween those times, it has been reinserted. Great, add more pain and discomfort to the woman.

All the government interference - as well as infringments of privacy from the media - disgusts me even more. They need to decide one way or the other and not delay this process longer than it already has been. Again, the volleying back and forth is becoming ridiculous, almost like a circus. She doesn't deserve this.
Could not have said it any better myself.

I've decided not to talk about the controversial part of this. All I can say right now is that we should pray and put the issue into God's hands, and have Him do whatever He'll do.

but at least scott didn't let his wife suffer for 15 years...
I realize you probably didnt mean it the way it sounds but that is a horrible thing to say. Lacy first of all was not suffering, she was pregnant.

i was just reading up on the terry shivo case i really didnt understaand it at first but after reading more on it i feel very bad yes the woman is suffering with or without a feeding tube the woman is in bad shape and none opf us know how it is to care for someone in that state for that long of a period of time it is just a horrible horrible thing that ios happening to the woman and her family i believe let go and let god naturally the parents feel the need to protect and defend thier daughter we all would the same thing if ever faced with this kind of dilema, im just wondering if the husband wants to let her go so he can continue his life with his new family he has started in the last few years its a very sad thing going on but deliberatly letting her starve and dehydrate to death just seems wrong to me its a form of murder i believe if god had wanted her to die he would of already taken her to be with him she has stayed her for a reason
everyone needs to put terry in the lords hands and let the will of the lord be done peaace to all who care for her and her faamily god bless all of you continue your prayers she is still her fighting her battleeven when somwone is in critical condition no matter what doctors do that person still does not make it because it is the will of the lord that they dont make it thru.things happen for reasons i believe.

some kid was arrested today for trying to give terry some water. ah... america... one of the only (if not only) countries in the world where you can go to jail for trying to save someones life...

yup .....just how this world is stupid now its a crime to help some one oh brother what next i dont even wanna wonder ::] but then again he was going against the law or whatever

Ok here's where I have a major gripe. Terry isn't even allowed to have a wet sponge put to her lips. What really gets me about this is when my grandpa was dying the hospital did everything they could to make him as comfortable as possible. One of which was they swabed his mouth because it had gotten dry from having the respirator down his throat. I could only imagine how Terry's mouth must feel. I had a breathing tube once and it was only for an hour and my throat and mouth were real scratchy for the day. Not even allowing her to keep her mouth moist is just a miniscule part of the slow cruel process she is going thru. Oh and Micheals lawyer calls this dying with dignity... I think not.

None of this has any shred of dignity. It's all total BS. From making her starve to the idiot protestors with tape across their mouths with the word LIFE. Total complete crap.

Definitely. Like I said before, the whole thing has become one gigantic circus.

Which is very sad.

It is. It's fricken horrible. I hope all these idiots of proud of the spectacle their making of themselves.

I am thankful that we live in a country where we have the right to peacefully protest. As long as they follow the rule of law while protesting. If it were in my hometown I would more than likely go excercise my right to express my disenting opinion and show my support for Terrys family. It wouldn't be about pride. It would be in heartfelt love and sympathy for Terry and her family.

a circus ....no a circus is with clowns and lions, tight ropes.fun, fun, fun and this is not fun.

There's certainly a lot of clowns running around.

Just to clarify for some of you who didn't get it, I used circus in a metaphorical sense. Of course there are no literal clowns, no elephants, no trapeze artists, no human cannonball. This whole thing has gotten out of proportion and has reached a ridiculousness akin to a circus.

i know what you meant..

Personally, I'm beginning to have a pretty high opinion of her husband. Honestly, I've heard a lot of negative stuff about him, but have yet to hear any real confirmation of the stories, so until there's something substantiating these claims, I think we as Christians need to be cautious and think about whether or not this is gossip. I was dissapointed to see a lot of people rushing to conclusions about him without seeming to do any real fact checking. That's just how it seemed to be to me, I could be wrong.

In light of all this anti-husband rhetoric, the husband been extremely quiet and respectful, silently turning the other cheek and taking it (no media appearances for him)—and all this innuendo and gossip seems it would make it very difficult for him to get around in public without being accosted. Additionally, it has made his OWN LIFE very dangerous as police have made several arrests in connection to people making plans to kill him (I can provide a source for this, it was on http://cnn.com today.)

Let's not forget that Terri choose to marry him. When we say, in a sense, that he is an evil, evil man, we are also saying something about Terri's ability to choose a husband. Can't we trust that when Terri choose to marry him, she knew more about him than we do?

There are several signed affidavits on record where people such as Terry's care givers (not just one person but a few), and close friends have sworn to Michael saying things such as "is she dead yet", "when's the B gonna die", "I don't know what to do", "we never discussed her wishes". Also in the last week most of these people have done interviews on Fox News which I have watched that shed plenty of doubt on the purity of Michaels motives.

I am extreemly dissapionted in the judges decision today considering the evidence that Terry did try to communicate when asked if she wanted to live. But I'm sure that at this point in the cruel starvation that her body has prolly suffered irrepairable harm. In this mornings doctors reports they say that Terry is now bledding from the eyes and tongue and her skin is flaking off. All the while Michael sits back and allows this. He wasn't even there when they removed the feeding tube. Oh and if he does visit her (he prolly does) he still goes home to a common law wife and two children. An interesting thing to consider is any divorce court upon hearing that he's got a common law wife and two children would consider him estranged.

There are several signed affidavits on record where people such as Terry's care givers (not just one person but a few), and close friends have sworn to Michael saying things such as "is she dead yet", "when's the B gonna die", "I don't know what to do", "we never discussed her wishes". Okay, that helps. Thanks Skilletosis. :-)

parents give up fight she is gonna die soon http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001/20050326/1229166253.htm&ewp=ewp_news_0305terri&floc=NW_1-T

that's really sad

i think there just too heartbroken

But c'mon Shiavo hasn't had food for 8 days, it's just too inhuman...

parents give up fight she is gonna die soon http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001/20050326/1229166253.htm&ewp=ewp_news_0305terri&floc=NW_1-T


that is so sad. when the courts can rule over the president...

and a 10yr. old and 13 yr. old arrested for trying to bring her water? that's awful...

to think of where we are coming to as a soceity to think it's ok to let someone starve to death...

and the courts approve it...

that is so sad. when the courts can rule over the president...


Not to be picky, but the president is a part of the executive branch, and the executive branch should not have supreme power over the other two branches of the government. The idea of checks and balances at work in this instance. The judicial branch, which the Supreme Court is a part of, is just as important, and in this case, when it is up to the courts (sadly, but truly) to decide on legal issues such as these, I think it is perfectly legitimate for them to have more power than the president. The legislative branch and well as the executive branch both have their own specific guidelines and powers. The president is able to regulate and control who presides over the courts and the courts are able to decide if the acts of the president are constitutional or not.

that's awesome that everybody is praying. prayer is powerful.
one thing I learned is not to always fully believe averything the news says though cause they will add or get rid of whatever to make the story a little better

i know it just shows how wrong this world is....

This is all so sad. now they wouln't let her take communion...

what if everyone is wrong and she does feel pain?? imagine how horrible that would be... she is suffering so much. when our dog was sick beyond hope, we put him to sleep more humanely than what they are doing to Mrs. Shiavo.

You know I'm not catholic, but I am an American who believes in the constitution. For years Terry and her family have had communion on Easter Eve. Denying communion to Terry is against the constitutional right to religeous freedom. And what about the right to life, liberty, and happiness. And why is Michael denying this... Because it could be considered nourishment. Excuse me but a teensy morsel of cracker and a dropplet of wine is not nourishment. I think it's just another example of Michaels' cruelty.

You know who else I feel bad for is Michaels two kids. I don't know there ages but if they are school age they must be getting thier share of grief from the other kids and people in the community. So there's a couple others that could really use our prayers. They are completely innocent products of thier parents selfishness and I can only hope that they aren't suffering because of it...

yeah, im not catholic either, but how selfish is that?? that tiny bit of wine and cracker wouldn't give her any nutrition at all. so sad... if that doesn't prove how backwards Michael is, what will?

like a little piece of bread and sip of wine is gonna be all the nutrients she needs man these ppl are wrong they should just let take communion after all its her right too.

In Florida the spouse has a lot of final say. So it does pay if your going to marry to consider it, because some people can act mean and not let you live. THey don't even have to let you live if you have an accident!

I don't understand what is wrong with the country in this! It's just murder!

This just makes me hate the supreme court even more... the whole judicial system is whack...

What disgusts me are when you all continually condemn and mudsling Michael but then don't even consider praying for him as well. Even if you think he's some monster zombie that shouldn't even be thought of as a human being, he still is a human being and still does need prayer during this time, like his children, like Terry, like her parents, like everyone else effected by this.

I'm not mudslinging Michael, I have been praying for the whole situation... I just hate how the Supreme court made such a dumb decision...

i am praying for him, and as a christian i have to love him, but i dont have to like him as a person...

ok riz not everyone is saying bad stuff about him get your facts straight i know im not i rather pray for the girl ....

Riz is right. We still should be thinking about Michael and not throwing insults at him - we have no idea what he is thinking right now and how hard it has been for the past however-many-years.

I think everyone was taking it as a personal attack when he was saying 'you all'. It's just a reminder that everyone is human and not to look down on people because of what they do. I think tracy said something about that in another thread...can't remember.

whos tracy?

theelectric3. I just remember her saying something about not looking down on people...can't remember what thread that was in.

oh okay...

I think Micheal should probably be in our prayers too.

most definantly, this will probably haunt him for the rest of his life...

10 days she's gone with out food or water she's a fighter...

Just wanted to let everyone know that Michael allowed for Terry Shiavo to receive communion (although they sadly weren't able to give her the bread) and have the last rites performed by a priest.

oh what a guy. He gave in after people were getting arrested for trying to bring her communion (which I understand but don't agree with). And oh what a guy he let them give her last rites. The day the feeding tube was removed Terrys priest came to give her last rites and Michael already had some other priest in there. What a terrible possition to put the priests in, not to mention another slap in Terrys parents faces. The priests decided to perform the last rites together.

If this thread fills up with any more sarcasm and spite.. every single one of us is going to drown.

heres the latest news on her condition and how her family is holding up...


terri schiavo (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7293186/)

Riz is right. We still should be thinking about Michael and not throwing insults at him - we have no idea what he is thinking right now and how hard it has been for the past however-many-years.

I think everyone was taking it as a personal attack when he was saying 'you all'. It's just a reminder that everyone is human and not to look down on people because of what they do. I think tracy said something about that in another thread...can't remember.
Yeah, but it isn't right to be beside Terry and claim that she wants to die. He ended up getting two new vehicles and all and other money as well from her. And, just because he has found someone new, does not make it right. I know we all mess up, and I'll pray for him too. I agree we all mess up and pay for it . It can't be pleasant to have others so against you,(but look at what Terry is going through). but what makes me mad is that some don't even consider Terry's side and her parent's side of it. It's this whole liberal thing with the courts. Terry's parents have even tried to help, but Mike always said that she didn't want that.

I do not hate him at all, but I am mad that he didn't let her parents help.All I'm saying is that just because he's her husband it doesn't mean he is always honest. No one is always honest. It just makes you think how critical relationships are and marriages.

they couldn't even give her the bread because her tongue was dried from dehydration...

well, this is all in God's hands. all we can do is pray for the whole situation.

yea thats true...

But what makes me mad is that some don't even consider Terry's side and her parent's side of it. It's this whole liberal thing with the courts. Terry's parents have even tried to help, but Mike always said that she didn't want that. I think it's actually a rather conservative idea. When you get married, you're committment and responsibility is more to your spouse than to your parents, and I don't think I need to quote the Bible to remind everyone on here of the verses. I might add that I think that's the way it should be—that the spouse has say over the parents. Again, I think would should be cautious coming to any conclusions about her husband, and additionally, I might remind us that when we say something about her husband, we are also saying something about Terry's ability to choose a husband.

micheal has dicided to have terry cremated.

so its final she's getting cremated?

That way there'll be no grave to remember her by.

Folks, we are watching America as we know it go down the hole. I hate this country. But then again, I am free to worship Christ. But I'm willing to bet that when I'm 40 it won't be that way.

sad, really sad... i just hope she really cant feel pain... gah, it would be so awful if she did

seriously,i don't know about this world its going end up turning into military control where nothings free.

*off topic*

It's gonna be one giant Wal-Mart someday. :P

lmao i hope not :)

Stop being all dramatic. Everyone. Seriously. It's really annoying to hear constant wails of "this country is going to the dogs" post after post. Sure, there are a few things that you might not enjoy about the US, but I think stating that you hate this country is a bit extreme. Do you think many other countries are better in thier reasoning - especially a more liberal reasoning? Do you think they will have the same ideals and viewpoints that you can embrace? An enormous handful of nations are less conservative than the United States; this past election and the current war situation are enough to tell you what other nations think about us.

And what does it matter if her body is getting cremated? Is it really anyone's business but the Schiavos?

I think it's actually a rather conservative idea. When you get married, you're committment and responsibility is more to your spouse than to your parents, and I don't think I need to quote the Bible to remind everyone on here of the verses. I might add that I think that's the way it should be—that the spouse has say over the parents. Again, I think would should be cautious coming to any conclusions about her husband, and additionally, I might remind us that when we say something about her husband, we are also saying something about Terry's ability to choose a husband.

But it doesn't excuse everything. I just wish he would do differently. I know it's not my place to judge, I just feel so sorry for Terry.

ok who's being dramatic now? ::]

I'm not being dramatic.

well ok then that settles that..

Okay, now we're upset as Christians because she's getting creamated? What won't we find to criticize next? No wonder Christians get labeled as "judgemental"—we can't even let someone get cremated without judging their own spouse? Come on, just listen to this! Good grief...maybe I should be concerned for OUR futures afterall.

I hope this forum is done, except for prayers.

i just hope she passses away in peace and goes home to Christ yup thats all i hope for her.

Okay, now we're upset as Christians because she's getting creamated? What won't we find to criticize next? No wonder Christians get labeled as "judgemental"—we can't even let someone get cremated without judging their own spouse? Come on, just listen to this! Good grief...maybe I should be concerned for OUR futures afterall.

I hope this forum is done, except for prayers.

no one said there was anything wrong with her being cremated... clorox just stated she was to be cremated... gah

(Cremating her means) there'll be no grave to remember her by.

Folks, we are watching America as we know it go down the hole. I hate this country. But then again, I am free to worship Christ. But I'm willing to bet that when I'm 40 it won't be that way.. .

he just said there would be no grave... no one really said michael was a wicked man for having her cremated or anything.

I might remind us that when we say something about her husband, we are also saying something about Terry's ability to choose a husband.

Just because Terry may have made a poor choice doesn't mean she deserves to be starved to death.

To that I will add that my mother thought she was making a good choice marrying my step dad. He was great to her until thier wedding night when he punched her in the face for yawning.

You sound like your blaming Terry with the old "she chose him she got what she derserved". If not please state that clearly.

what?!?!? for yawning?? not like he never yawns right?? sry... that was off topic.

Reguarding cremation Fox had Terrys brother on and he said that there were a couple of reasons against it. 1. An autopsy would be helpful in determining what happened to her as one of the medical reports said that she had broken bones that were suspisous. 2. Terry being Catholic did not believe in cremation and would not want to be cremated.
It was said that Michael was going to have her cremated immediately. I don't know if that has changed or not. O'Rielly is about to have a segment on it in just a minute.

what?!?!? for yawning?? not like he never yawns right?? sry... that was off topic.

oh yeah it was past midnight on a busy day. she yawned and he decked her and chewed her out saying she was bored on such an important day. It was the last time she hit him back...

there should definately be an autopsy... never burn that kind of person's body right away... now that you say it - doesnt it sound like he wants to hide something by cremating her imediately?? not judging, just sounds strange to me.

oh yeah it was past midnight on a busy day. she yawned and he decked her and chewed her out saying she was bored on such an important day. It was the last time she hit him back...
how awful... wedding night is supposed to be "special" right??

yup it's just that there's so much that casts doubt on this whole thing. Terrys brother said his family tried to get the authorities to investigate what actually happened and now after all these years they have a stack of evidence that points to Michael in a very suspicious way.

its so sad... its like just killl her and get burned... get rid of her. i wouldnt want to live the way she was either, but i wouldnt want to go the way she is.

Honestly..I wish that the people protesting would go home. How intrusive. I have no problem with people lobbying at the government level...that's political process or whathaveyou..but leave the poor family and the poor women alone..what a political freakshow, honestly.

Reguarding cremation Fox had Terrys brother on and he said that there were a couple of reasons against it. 1. An autopsy would be helpful in determining what happened to her as one of the medical reports said that she had broken bones that were suspisous. 2. Terry being Catholic did not believe in cremation and would not want to be cremated.
It was said that Michael was going to have her cremated immediately. I don't know if that has changed or not. O'Rielly is about to have a segment on it in just a minute.This is just one example that I found on this topic,a nd it is gossip, full of innuendo that assumes the worst in someone, plain and simple, though I am sure it's not done on purpose. As Christians, we should be assuming the best in people, and this isn't helping. Can we turn this back into a prayer forum? I think we are talking about stuff that we really don't know enough about.

Well, I do disagree with too much gossip but we can express our opinion. The only danger in gossip is that if we are wrong. That's why I'm not talking anymore about this tonight. I'm not going to judge.

This is just one example that I found on this topic,a nd it is gossip, full of innuendo that assumes the worst in someone, plain and simple, though I am sure it's not done on purpose. As Christians, we should be assuming the best in people, and this isn't helping. Can we turn this back into a prayer forum? I think we are talking about stuff that we really don't know enough about.

having a stack of evidence is not gossip. The family suspects something and has facts to back thier suspicions. They want to see if the facts that they have can be substantiated. Also I only mentioned O'Rielly because it was coming on right away. However the same reports have been aired on many shows and many stations.

hmm...more updates on her condition:


shiavo attorney: Dying women" very peaceful" (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7293186/)

Personally I think that both attorneys should stop reporting on her condition.

Talking about plans to have her cremated:That way there'll be no grave to remember her by.

Folks, we are watching America as we know it go down the hole. I hate this country. But then again, I am free to worship Christ. But I'm willing to bet that when I'm 40 it won't be that way.From CNN: Michael Schiavo decided to come forward with the autopsy plans for Terri Schiavo after "opponents to carrying out her wishes" suggested Michael Schiavo had an ulterior motive in his plans to cremate his wife.

I am glad that he has agreed to an autopsy. It hopefully will answer the many questions contained in this issue. It is good for everyone in the family including Michael. It could either prove or disprove not only her condition but maybe the suspicions of trauma.

I for one don't want the lawyers or family to stop updates on her condition. If people really understood how inhumane this process is maybe this won't happen again. I really think that each individual judge that has ruled on this needs to know what Terry is going thru. Unfortunatly without any photographic evidence of the process it doesn't help. Now I don't want to see pictures but I think they would serve an important purpose in helping courts make appropriate decisions.

im still confused... was it or was it not an eating disorder that put her into the "vegatative state"??

Both Terry's brother and sister have clearly stated that there has been no specific diagnosis of the cause of her collapse. In the last 10 days they have stated this on Fox News a few times.

that poor woman... i'm praying for her.

yeah i dont have telivision.. so... i wouldnt know... the internet is my place for news...

i'm wondering whether or not this thread should be locked, but the decision is not up to me. in hindsight, i should have kept my mouth shut considering that this thread was created for the soul purpose of praying for terry.

yea, but it has been moved to mars hill...

“She’s still communicating, she’s still responding. She’s emaciated, but she’s responsive,” Schindler told reporters after a visit with his daughter, saying that she showed facial expressions when he hugged and kissed her.


i thought this would maybe show she's still very alive and not too far gone to be help but it is her 12 day without food and water wont be long till she passes away...

sooo sad... imagine the pain... dehydration is the worst

they gave her morphine so i hope its working and she isn't hurting that bad i hope not anyway.

i sure hope she cant feel it...

yea, me 2 :-[

It's sad. It really is.

that is an understatement

Well I want her to live too, and I'm saying that it is sad and it is cruel what is happening.

I don't understand how some can be that way or how anyone can't care about it either. People don't ever deserve that treatment.

no, of course not

no they don't but its just the way this life is unfair...

Hey, did you know that CBS already wrote this story and put it on the website? They took it back down, of course. I thought it was SO fair and unbiased (ie Mr. Shiavo died at her bedside). The links on the front page of http://www.glennbeck.com if anyone's interested.

well i read it... hmm. shes not dead yet and they write an article. how awful.

I understand the writing the artlcle early, it's what news does, it wants to get the story first. The awful thing, in my opinion, is what they said concerning the events around her death, like michael being by her bedside comforting her or whatever as she passes on.

yeah, i kno what you mean...

Somehow I doubt that they really wrote the article..it wouldn't be that difficult to forge something like that.

Whenever I see those protesters with signs saying "I'm not dead yet..etc" I always think of Monty Python...how awful is that?! But I''m not dead yet!...

Are you saying that the Glenn Beck staff made this story up? I've listened to the program for about two years now, and I don't see any reason for him to lie. His staff did find the link to the article, but later it was taken down. The program did, though, make a copy before the article was taken down.

I have no idea who Glenn Beck is. I have never listened to his program and I have no idea what he is about. I am simply saying that I doubt the validity of most things that seem rather sensationalistic.....especially when it is from CBS..who makes for a nice target, especially with the Republicans and after the recent D.R. scandal.

well the 11th circuit court is considering a hearing on this, thank God. I just hope it isn't too late. They need to act quickly. I have to say I didn't think she would last this long. I think that is testament of her will to live.

It's a testament of the body's survival resources. That is all.

yea,skillettosis i believe that too! i believe the soul fights to stay alive as well as her physical being y else would she last so long unless there is more 2 it.well good i hope they do give terri parents another chance to appeal but if not may terri pass away in peace 13 days without food or water her body is probabaly going throuh survival mode i think she's tough enough and if given the oppuntunity will make it through.

Hey, did you know that CBS already wrote this story and put it on the website? They took it back down, of course. I thought it was SO fair and unbiased (ie Mr. Shiavo died at her bedside). The links on the front page of http://www.glennbeck.com if anyone's interested.Yeah, I too think we should also be cautious of the reporting here. I had some red flags go up as I was reading it and viewing the website. The "I starved my wife to death!" t-shirts was just one example.

It's satyrical, not meant to be taken seriously. It's meant to show how sick some things and people can be. You'd have to listen to the program for a while to really understand.

But she said she wanted to be let go if she was ever in that state.

That's by Michael's mouth only.

http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=GENERAL&fn=/2005/03/30/94438.html

and now the Pope is on a feeding tube. hmmmm now we know he wants it because he spoke out on this recently saying something to the effect that it doesn't go along with the catholic teachings on the sanctity of life.... and you know what Terry is catholic, raised catholic, followed catholic traditions such as recieving communion on Easter Eve. Her mother even said that Terry would've listened to what the Pope had said and abided by it. Just something to think about.

My family says the liberals and other groups want Terry dead, and I've aleady said I totally disagree with that. It's just hard to understand why anyone would want that. Sorry for ranting.

(skilletosis... u know catholics aren't the only denomination that does commmunion, right??)

terri passed away well atleast now she'll have peace....

terri dies (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7293186/)

yup shes dead /\/\/\__________________

well michael got what he wanted... she's gone now.

(skilletosis... u know catholics aren't the only denomination that does commmunion, right??)

only cuz this is the Hill I wont say something totaly sarcastic... of course I know that I was just speaking on Terry and her catholic faith.

It's very sad that she is gone now. But thank God her suffering is over. I'm so sad for her family. Especially her parents. They had to stand by and watch this happen and do nothing to intervene. I can't imagine how heartbroken they are...

oh i figured you did... its just becuase earlier in this thread you said that "you weren't catholic but that terri should be allowed communion" or something like that. it just sounded strange i guess.

no worries...

This is just one of those issues that touches you deep down in your soul reguardless of what possition you take. I know I'm not done discussing it yet. But for now I'm just gonna be quiet on my opinion... :o at least for a couple of hours.. I'm gonna listen to the news for a while...

hey guys i just found out about it schaivo dying their is a live vote on whether the courts failed or not on msn you can also send them a response on how you feel, lets just say mine wasn't a favorable one toward Mr. Schaivo. does Jack Kavorkian ring a bell. think god though she is not suffering anymore. but yes i believe her husband is an animal. i understand from him that it was her wishes, but kavorkian used the same excuse. And to look at the woman you supposedly love and yank the thing that is keeping her alive, haneous. i do think he is right it was her wish,but you got to know that if that meant starving to death she would have said NO!! So that out rivals her husbands excuse. he killed her and in the end he'll have to answer to god for it. it is just a sad day when something like this is done in our nation.

If you want you can see the full story on CNN.com. That's so sad, I wasn't really expecting this at all. Somehow I thought she'd make it. Her husband seems like a horrible person, but I'm wary about how the media portrays things. Maybe they didn't tell the whole story (they rarely do). Whether or not he's guilty of murder is between him and God. Be praying for the family and friends though, this has got to be the most awful time of their lives.

hey homeskillet you know that is the best place to be i will be praying for her family Their going to need it. :'(

Although it is a sad day - because it is sad when someone passes on - I'm happy that Terry has gone to someplace immeasureably better than the one here. Even though you all say that Michael was a monster and that he has no soul and that he will be going to hell and that he isn't worthy of anything because of his "actions," all the attention that everyone else garnered from this situation is just as unfortuante, just as selfish, just as ridiculous, and just as wrong (i.e. the protesters, unecessarily causing a disturbance, even on Easter).

I will not vote on an online poll because (1) I think it is futile and (2) I don't think it is our own place to decide on this issue, and if I did want to do it, I wouldn't do it through a mere poll online. The unfortunate thing is that the main people responsible for Terry Schiavo were not able to agree and work to help her. And then they decided to do a metaphorical tug-of-war between what they thought was right. Which led to the court system and another quagmire from which it was impossible to escape. It was a complete circus, this whole situation, and I'm happy it is over. For Terry's sake. She did not deserve this much infringement and invasion on her privacy; she did deserve better care, and neither side assisted her in this matter. Neither side.

I guess I'll be lynched for what I've said, but I felt that it had to be laid out there.

Defintiely pray for the families, including the evil, animal, no-good, hypocrite known as Michael Schaivo.

Riz, thanks for sharing your wisdom with us and helping us not get caught up in being devisive and taking sides.

Heavenly Daddy, please be with these families and with so many other families that are going through similar situations. Take your hands of healing and take hold of their hearts as they ache with such pain. Holy Spirit, please be the amazing healer that we know you to be. Redeemer, redeem these people, gifting them with a peaceful love instead of the enemy's gift of bitterness. And Father, you said in James that if we ask for wisdom, you will grant it, so Father, I ask in the name of Jesus that you would not only give us wisdom, but humilty as well. Please, show us to be the healer that you are.

she did deserve better care, and neither side assisted her in this matter. Neither side.



Better care. That's what the whole issue was. Michael would not allow Terrys parents to give her the care and treatment that she needed...

thats so sad. the whole thing is.

Riz i have no problem with what are you are saying, but let me ask you if you truly loved someone could you yank a feeding tube out them that was keeping them alive. it is a delicate line when you cross over that threshhold, here is something else whether or not he is mudreder is in God's eyes is up to God, but here is once again were conservatives and liberals differ, we convicted Jack Kavorkian of assisted suicide, this is the same thing, Mr. schaivo used the same terminology kavorkian used. Now i am trying to be nice so i wont pursue that side any further. but it takes a lack of charachter wether or not she was brain dead to yank her feeding tube. if you loved someone why would you do that. I think it is funny that people go after Mike Tyson and many others but Michael schiavo is a good guy. yes we should pray for the families on both side but this is not a partisan issue either he killed his wife or he did a service, which side are you on. but it also states in the bible numerous places about defending the weak. When jesus healed the lame man did he say oh your too weak no he healed him, as christians we should do the same. that is not drama, i am not trying to be dramatic, that is called truth and not tolerance. oh i know the vote comment was addressed to me i put it up there so people who believe like could do what they wished.

she did deserve better care, and neither side assisted her in this matter. Neither side.


I'm not going to lynch you, I'm just going to say that her parents and siblings tried to give her better treatment, but as they were not the next of kin, they were unable to do so. I'm sad she died the way she was forced to, and that our court systems failed these past weeks, but I'm glad that she's finally at peace. This'll be the last I say here on this issue, forgiving a conviction to do so.

she did deserve better care, and neither side assisted her in this matter.
Over the last two weeks I've come to see that God, maybe they should give her a fighting chance. I see so many people filter through CNS [where i work] - people who come in drooling and in wheelchairs and are discharged walking and talking. And I just thought that man, if only CNS could get our hands on her, maybe we could have helped make her better.

However, I still stand by my feeling that they just needed to let her go and I'm glad that her suffering has finally reached it's end.

However, I still stand by my feeling that they just needed to let her go and I'm glad that her suffering has finally reached it's end.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way. As bad as it is that she died, yet she has gone to a better place because of it.

i'm also glad her suffering has ended but i'm upset that our nation allowed her to starve to death (food and water). (this on-going battle for about 15 years...)

i mean, 50+ people arrested for trying to bring her water? :-\

Yeah, It's not right to do someone like that. Just let someone die and starve. Look at ads about other countries people that starve. Why let her starve?

Just don't understand it at all

from what i understood terri schiavo could swallow and she did'nt have to be on a feeding tube but the court ordered her not to have any food what so ever i think that it was wrong what michael schiavo did to his wife i mean he was awarded 1 million dollars to take care of her and he said that we would take care of he the rest of her life but onec he got the money he says i think she would not want to be on the state of mind...juss think about it if u were in the kind of state that terri was in would u want to be STARVED to DEATH?? i know i would not...

kids in my school were running a pool on when Shiavo was going to die, I got so ticked of at them today, I just wanted to scream my head off at them... now they have a pool on the pope...

man thats sad to hear ppl just arent right in the head nowadays...

I wish I could talk to the supreme court justices... just to wonder what they're thinking and how they sleep at night... though not all of them are bad...

yea thats true not all of them are bad but still its messed up something couldve been done but wasn't because they didnt seem to care about the family feelings compassion wouldve been nice but the law was more important cant blame them though its there job ...

I can't believe on the the 11th Circuit lectured us and the president yesterday on this issue.

they lectured us hmm ... interesting how could i miss that...

kids in my school were running a pool on when Shiavo was going to die, I got so ticked of at them today, I just wanted to scream my head off at them... now they have a pool on the pope...Honestly, if I was on my death bed, I wouldn't care in the slightest that someone had a pool on when I was gonna die. I would probably try to get in on it and make my own bet. Just because we're Christians doesn't mean we have to be offended by everything, for Christ did not come into the world to condemn the world, but to save it. Your words came off as very condemning towards those people that started the pools.
man thats sad to hear ppl just arent right in the head nowadays...Nowadays?

Prophesy of the Christ:
Psalm 22:18
They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.

yes n back then 2...

Yeah, It's not right to do someone like that. Just let someone die and starve. Look at ads about other countries people that starve. Yeah, it's interesting how Americans donate so much money trying to save one American life, and yet give so little overseas where it can do so much.

Yeah, they gave a speech last night, and it sounded a lot more like a lecture.

oh okay then...

Over the last two weeks I've come to see that God, maybe they should give her a fighting chance. I see so many people filter through CNS [where i work] - people who come in drooling and in wheelchairs and are discharged walking and talking. And I just thought that man, if only CNS could get our hands on her, maybe we could have helped make her better.


Just to add to this line of thought.... You all know that I have a daughter who is autistic. I have witnessed the miracles that speech therapy can do. Tho it was extreemly limited Terry did have speech after her collapse. I can't help but believe that she could have progressed had she had the proper therapy.

You know, I just thought of something. Don't we all have a certain unalienable rights written into our constitution: Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness?

You know, I just thought of something. Don't we all have a certain unalienable rights written into our constitution: Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness?That's actually the Declaration of Independence, written by a deist, and US Courts do not recognize it as a legal document. :-/

Oh yeah, that's right, thanks. I guess I've been up for too long - Good Night!!

That's actually the Declaration of Independence, written by a deist, and US Courts do not recognize it as a legal document. :-/
Jefferson wasn't really a deist... but w/e... It doesn't matter...

kids in my school were running a pool on when Shiavo was going to die, I got so ticked of at them today, I just wanted to scream my head off at them... now they have a pool on the pope...

What a sad thing....betting on a when a human life will end :'(

Jefferson wasn't really a deist... but w/e... It doesn't matter...Well, I don't know what you call it, but he claims in one leter that he is a "Materialist" (letter to Short, 4/13/1820), in another he claims to be a Unitarian (letter to Waterhouse, 1/8/1825), he rejects the Trinity (letter to Derieux, 7/25/1788 ) and names a Unitartian and a Diest as the basis of his faith (letter to Adams, 8/22/1813). We can start a seperate thread on it if you'd like, or do PMs. Apologies for being picky. :-)

alex on your comment on bob getting mad at the kids betting on schaivo's life and now the pope, he had right to say that i would have done the same thing to those kids. you have to be pretty sick to bet on another person's life and yes i was offended by what those kids did and i dont go to school with them.

alex on your comment on bob getting mad at the kids betting on schaivo's life and now the pope, he had right to say that i would have done the same thing to those kids. you have to be pretty sick to bet on another person's life and yes i was offended by what those kids did and i dont go to school with them.Well, of course he has the right to say it and post it on here. But when we say that those kids are "pretty sick" to be doing that, I think we're in danger of forgetting that we are all "pretty sick." Of course we can be upset about other people's sin and the grossness of it; I however think that our attitude should first be an attitude of understanding since we too are sinners—we understand the desire to compromise our ethics in order to be popular and second, in light of this, our attitude should be one of compassion and empathy, instead of righteous indignation. Our attitudes should have no sense of condemnation or boastfulness.

"For it is by grace we have been saved through faith..." Do I need to say the rest?

All I'm saying is that no matter who a person is they can be wrong. Even if it is law.

I wasn't condeming them for theeir sin... all sin is equal, i'd admit i'm a sinner any day... it's just sad really...

I'm saying that just because one is in more control doesn't make them right. I'm not going to rant about it. And the Bible doesn't say that one can't be wrong.

Hey alex i see where you are coming from, and that makes a lot sense. i was mainly meaning as a whole that to bet on someone's life is to show a lack of morals, not saying they are devoid of any it just isn't right betting on ones life and i think in a way that is what bob was saying too, if i misinterprted that bob please corraect me. but their are also times that even though we are sick and need christ desperatly there are also times when you have to stand up for what is right and say something, even if it is a post on this sight. i respect bob for having the courage and the christian faith to say something. he really in the end did not even have to tell us about it. i now know to pray for those kids at his school. a new prayer activity.

Hey bob i've got my mom almost willing to check out your llama thread and my girlfriend too! {my mom doesn't like computers}
Peace out{mk kid} chris.

Hey alex i see where you are coming from, and that makes a lot sense. i was mainly meaning as a whole that to bet on someone's life is to show a lack of morals, not saying they are devoid of any it just isn't right betting on ones life and i think in a way that is what bob was saying too, if i misinterprted that bob please corraect me. but their are also times that even though we are sick and need christ desperatly there are also times when you have to stand up for what is right and say something, even if it is a post on this sight. i respect bob for having the courage and the christian faith to say something. he really in the end did not even have to tell us about it. i now know to pray for those kids at his school. a new prayer activity. Yeah, I think I can agree to all that. I certainly think that Christians can have a backbone (though I understand some on here may be surprised by me saying that); my concern is that sometimes we refuse to budge on minor arguments/moral issues and end up trying to convince someone that our moral position is right instead of trying to convince them to join us in following in the way of Jesus. This is why I think Paul says, Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.

I'm just putting that verse on here for other people—I know we've already discussed some of this verse.

I get Sojourners' e letters...and I found this interesting:
(btw this is written by Joyce Caroll's husband)Personally, I cannot understand why parents willing to take care of their disabled daughter were not allowed to by a husband who had moved on to another life and family. Terri Schiavo was severely mentally disabled but was not dying, and we don't decide to end the lives of many similarly disabled people, even children, whose mental capacities greatly diminish their quality of life. As my wife, Joy Carroll, put it, "the issue is not their quality of life, but the ethical quality of our society." And in situations of medical, scientific, or legal complexity, the morally safer course is always to err on the side of life. However, it became painfully clear that for many political partisans the issue wasn't so much the life of this young woman but other related political issues and agendas. And a leaked Republican memo about firing up the conservative base of the party and even defeating Democratic opponents in Florida were way out of line.
Again, the issue is consistency. Will Schiavo's defenders now also care more about the loss of civilian lives in Iraq or prisoners (even innocent ones) put to death on death row? Will they refuse to accept the silent tsunami that takes the lives of 30,000 children every day due to hunger and disease, or even support the Medicaid funding for vulnerable people that helped sustain Schiavo's life for many years? Somehow I doubt it.

I get Sojourners' e letters...and I found this interesting:Wow, that was very well spoken. Thanks for sharing.

(CNN) -- The Florida agency charged with protecting families and children concluded two years ago that the husband of Terri Schiavo was not abusive, as her parents bitterly contended, according to documents released Friday.

Mary and Bob Schindler had filed complaints to the Department of Children and Families that Michael Schiavo, who also was his wife's legal guardian, tried to starve her, beat her, inappropriately medicate her and wanted her dead to gain financially.

"No information or evidence was found to support the allegations," the agency said following extensive investigations. It noted that its conclusions were supported by years of legal and medical documentation.

The agency, however, was never on the same side in the Schiavo case.

While it cleared Michael Schiavo in its 2003 report, the agency made an 11th-hour effort March 24 at the urging of Florida Gov. Jeb Bush to obtain custody of Terri Schiavo, alleging her husband had abused and exploited her.

Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge George Greer, the same judge who ordered Terri Schiavo's feeding tube removed March 18, refused to grant the petition. Terri Schiavo died March 31. She was 41.

Allegations of abuse were considered and dismissed several times in the 15 years Terri Schiavo was incapacitated.

On Thursday, Greer ordered the release of the 2003 report the DCF made of its investigations.

The documents include a complaint from 2003 in which the Schindlers accused Schiavo of having said, "I can't wait until the ***** is dead."

The DCF said its investigation found Michael Schiavo to be a loving spouse who cared deeply about his wife.

"The staff involved with her care stated the spouse is always courteous and is rarely alone with the patient," the 2003 report found.

"There is no supporting documentation that the spouse ever made statements about 'Is the ***** ever going to die?' or 'When will the ***** die because I will be rich.'"

A DCF report from a year earlier said Michael Schiavo had no access to hundreds of thousands of dollars awarded to his wife from a medical malpractice suit.

"He is only the guardian of person and the financial guardian is a banking institution. All expenditures are authorized by the court and [Michael Schiavo] has no control over them," it said.

The Schindlers made eight complaints to DCF starting in 2001, with each one containing multiple allegations of abuse and neglect.

But agency said it found no evidence that Michael Schiavo abused, neglected or exploited his wife.

"During the time Mrs. Schiavo has been a patient of hospice [Hospice House Woodside in Pinellas Park], the spouse has always been courteous and very compassionate towards his wife. He is rarely alone with her when he visits and he has never compromised her care," the DCF said.

At least for me, I just always wondered why he didn't simply allow her parents to care for her. If they wanted to put time and money into caring for their daughters and he could easily divorce her, then why not allow them?

I guess he feared having a bad public image or guilt... but that wasn't shown in his motives really...

Well, I'll admit I don't know, but it was sad seeing it happen. It doesn't hurt to think about the situation she/they were in, including her parents. I think personally that some officials and all have made some hasty decisions. I'm not criticizing them, but u look at all the helpless people in the world. It's come to this.

well, she's dead, so there's really nothing left to discuss.

true, but our society is fascinated with talking and mourning over dead people... dead is dead, when I die, poke me with a stick I really don't care...

i guess i just don't see the point anymore.

I was just replying also to an post about the reports being false. They may not have been is all I was saying.

And, yes , she may be dead, but we need to take a good look at all of the helpless people, and if a loved one of ours had been her. It could happen to anyone.

and then have the courts ignore you?

and then have the courts ignore you?
I guess I was just saying that things could change, if enough people tried. We can't continue letting things happen. I say this because there have been many even in worse shape, they just happened to have more understanding people. And, yes, I'm saying some in the courts were wrong. Everyone in the courts wouldn't ignore it.